Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
How to adjust heat diverter / heat distribution valve cable
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
eche_bus
Samba Member


Joined: October 07, 2007
Posts: 1318

eche_bus is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:31 pm    Post subject: How to adjust heat diverter / heat distribution valve cable Reply with quote

I couldn't find anywhere that documents how to adjust the control cable that attaches to the heat diverter or distribution valve, so I spent the afternoon figuring it out for myself, and now I'm going to document it. I'm referring to the valve and end of cable located beneath the bus just below and in back of the front seats. It controls whether heat goes to the front or the rear of the bus. The vehicle is a 1976 Westy.

The Valve
Here is a photo showing the heat diverter valve. The cable has been detached from the valve's control arm and is shown dangling. A red arrow points to the valve control arm. The flex tube that runs to the rear heat vent has been removed from the right side of the valve and is shown hanging down.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The Cable
The end of the control cable has a "step" formed in it. Note also the rust-colored metal "ball" that is at the tip of the rubber boot. This is more important than I ever imagined. I refer to this later as a "ball stop".
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The Cable Jacket Retaining Clip
This is the clip that holds the cable housing/jacket to the valve control arm. The curved tip goes into a slot/hole in the arm, and the flat end snaps into a cutout in the end of the arm, locking the housing in place.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Cable Installation
The end of the cable wire is inserted through a small hole in a metal flange/tab that sits atop the diverter valve. You can't really see this flange from the left side of the valve. The only way I could see it (just barely) was to remove the rightmost heat tube from the valve. The arrow shows what you can reasonably see of the flange. Trust me, that little hole is there.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You've got to wiggle the cable a bit to get that step on the tip of the cable wire to pass all the way through the hole, so it's sitting on the right hand side of the flange. I found this completely non-intuitive, as the cable wire is then free to travel back and forth through the hole in the flange, like it couldn't possibly do anything ... until I discovered just how everything is supposed to work. Here's a view with the cable end properly through the flange/tab hole.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


OK, so how is it supposed to work?
When the leftmost dash lever, called the "Heat Distribution Lever" by VW is in the top position, the front and rear heat vents are fully open. In the middle, the rear vent is closed, so heat just goes to the front. All the way down, heat is shunted completely up to the defrost vents.

Yeah, but what makes that possible?
Here's where it gets interesting. In order to work right, the heat diverter valve should only change position for the top to middle range of the dash lever travel. In other words, the distribution valve control arm should go through its entire range of motion as the dash lever is moved downward from the top through the middle position.

OK, but how can the dash lever still move down to Defrost?
If the distribution valve control arm is already at its travel limit by the dash lever mid-point, then wouldn't trying to push the dash lever further down towards "Defrost" just end up jamming the lever and breaking the cable?

This is the key fact: The cable doesn't actually move the diverter valve control arm. It only allows the control arm's spring tension to move the arm.

With the dash lever all the way up, the wire inside the cable is fully extended. With the cable properly adjusted, the valve control arm will be at its rearward travel limit. The ball stop near the end of the cable wire sits against that valve flange with the hole in it and provides a stationary point for the cable to move against.

As the dash lever is moved downward towards the midpoint, the cable wire is drawn further inside the housing. This has the effect of shortening the distance between the ball stop and the cable housing, which allows the arm to pivot towards its forward travel limit.

Once the dash lever is moved down to the midpoint, the valve control arm has reached its forward travel limit, and there is no longer any arm spring tension. Moving the lever down further into Defrost has no effect on the valve as although the cable wire continues to retract, it is no longer mechanically coupled to the control valve arm. By the way, the "L" at the very tip of the cable wire serves only to prevent the wire from retracting too far.

... and so ...

How to adjust the cable
1. Push the dash lever all the way up. Now get back under the bus.
2. Insert the cable jacket retaining clip into the hole in the diverter valve control arm, placing the cable under it, but don't snap it down.
3. Pull the valve control arm toward the rear of the bus, pulling against the spring tension, all the way to the travel limit.
4. Push on the cable jacket so the ball stop at the tip of the boot sits right up against that hidden metal flange/tab the cable wire goes through at the top of the valve.
5. Press the retaining clip down to snap in place, securing the cable.
6. Go back up inside the bus and move that dash lever midway down.
7. Crawl back under the bus and marvel that the control valve arm has moved all the way to the other end of travel!
8. Go back up inside the bus. Move that arm all the way down to Defrost. Note that it doesn't jam or bind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mcdonaldneal
Samba Member


Joined: June 13, 2013
Posts: 2639
Location: Gullane, Scotland
mcdonaldneal is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:57 pm    Post subject: Re: How to adjust heat diverter / heat distribution valve ca Reply with quote

Excellent description, beautifully illustrated.
I'm one of the long list of folk who have tried this and failed! I ended up blocking off the rear heat outlet with kitchen foil, as it's more important in Scotland to get the maximum heat coming forward in the bus.
When (and if!) I decide to tackle this properly, this is where I'll come!
Question: I don't seem to have the elaborately curved clip, and my cable is held with a zip-tie. I'm guessing that I won't be able to get it adjusted with the zip tie?
Thanks!
_________________
1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper

Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Tcash
Samba Member


Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
Tcash is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: How to adjust heat diverter / heat distribution valve ca Reply with quote

mcdonaldneal wrote:
Excellent description, beautifully illustrated.
I'm one of the long list of folk who have tried this and failed! I ended up blocking off the rear heat outlet with kitchen foil, as it's more important in Scotland to get the maximum heat coming forward in the bus.
When (and if!) I decide to tackle this properly, this is where I'll come!
Question: I don't seem to have the elaborately curved clip, and my cable is held with a zip-tie. I'm guessing that I won't be able to get it adjusted with the zip tie?
Thanks!


Do a search for prt# 823819679 Clamp clip.
http://www.jimellisvwparts.com/products/Volkswagen-VW/1976/Type-2/Clamp--CLIP/5249054/823819679.html

Good Luck
Tcash
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Tcash
Samba Member


Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
Tcash is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:05 pm    Post subject: 73-79 Heat Distribution Cable Adjustment Reply with quote

73-79 Heat Distribution Cable Adjustment
Thank you for posting.

Anyone have the cargo floor cut out so they can post a pic of the Distribution distributor and cable. Can you please pull the boot on the end of the cable back so we can get a look at it.

So am I understanding this correctly?
The rust colored ball is crimped onto the cable?
The rust colored ball pushes on the diverter control lever?
When the rust colored ball is retracted. The diverter control lever returns to rest under spring tension?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last edited by Tcash on Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:54 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Amskeptic
Samba Member


Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8568
Location: All Across The Country
Amskeptic is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: 73-79 Heat Distribution Cable Adjustment Reply with quote

Tcash wrote:
73-79 Heat Distribution Cable Adjustment
Thank you for posting.


Dang if I don't have a write-up in the queue for this very topic.

Sorry, eche-bus, if I accidentally step on your write-up. I have illustrations to do that will make it easier.

For now:

1) The cable wire (the center) at the distribution box end is *stationary* at all times.
The wire is supposed to be installed into the hole in the metal flange by bringing the cable in steeply then pulling back to hold it like an accelerator cable.

2) The actual movement of the diverter flaps is effected by the black cable sheath, held by the clamp, attached to the lever. There is nothing special at the end of the cable sheath except the rubber boot groove.

An inner cable in an outer sheath offers two possible movements:
a) you pull the inner wire and it pulls whatever is on the other end of that wire
b) you pull the wire and it draws the sheath down because the other end of the wire is held stationary.

The distribution valve works as follows:

Heat lever UP
pushes inner wire down
pulls undercar distribution lever rearwards, opening the flaps (draws them against each other inside the tube allowing heat to flow into the aisle heaters)
(ADJUST HERE)

Heat lever MIDDLE
pulls inner wire up
pushes undercar distribution lever forward, closing the aisle heater flaps.
note:
This position depends on the "broken" sheath leading from the distribution lever to the footwell flap next to the heater tree. You should see no movement of the footwell flap from Up to Middle.

Heat lever DOWN
Here the only movement should be the wire pulling the footwell flap closed.

An illustration would really help, I'll get on it.
Colin
_________________
www.itinerant-air-cooled.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Facebook Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
eche_bus
Samba Member


Joined: October 07, 2007
Posts: 1318

eche_bus is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: How to adjust heat diverter / heat distribution valve ca Reply with quote

Tcash wrote:
73-79 Heat Distribution Cable Adjustment
Thank you for posting.

Q1: Can you please pull the boot on the end of the cable back so we can get a look at it.

So am I understanding this correctly?
Q2: The rust colored ball is crimped onto the cable?
Q3: The rust colored ball pushes on the diverter control lever?
Q4: When the rust colored ball is retracted. The diverter control lever returns to rest under spring tension?


Thanks for adding those images to better illustrate the system. Darn difficult thing to photograph to be sure.

I'm going to continue to call the control valve lever, the "arm" to keep from confusion with the dash lever.

A1: If you're referring to pulling the boot back from the ball stop, I'm sorry but I tried and with reasonable force it wouldn't go. I didn't want to risk damaging the boot, and seeing what was under it wasn't material to the problem I was trying to solve. Under the boot is just bare cable wire and this ball feature, I can say that for sure.

A2:The ball is crimped onto the cable. It doesn't move independently.
The ball sits against the fixed flange/tab at the top of the diverter valve so long as the dash lever is within the "heat zone" portion of its travel. As the lever is moved downward into the "defrost zone", it retracts away from the flange as the cable continues to retract.

A3: The cable housing/jacket is clamped onto the diverter control arm. As the dash lever is moved upward, the cable lengthens, and with the ball sitting against the fixed flange/tab, the jacket moves away from the ball, and thus pushes the arm.

A4: As the cable wire and thus ball are retracted by moving the dash lever downward, this allows the diverter control arm's spring tension to move the lever towards its resting position (rear heat off). Further dash lever travel downward continues to retract the wire and ball, but there is no force applied to the control lever, as the cable wire isn't attached to anything.

Here's another perspective:

FACT #1: As long as the dash lever is moving downward, the cable applies no force to the diverter control arm. It is only the spring inside the valve that provides potential energy to pull the arm to its resting (rear heat off) position.

FACT #2: The cable housing/jacket applies force to the valve control arm ONLY as the dash lever is moved upwards, and only when the cable ball rests against the fixed flange/tab on the top of the valve body. Remember, the ball rests against the flange only outside of the "Defrost Zone". Upward motion of the dash lever applies increasing force on the arm, and as the cable shroud clipped to the arm moves further away from the fixed flange/tab, the arm follows, further compressing the internal spring. This is why the cable is adjusted with the dash lever fully up and the valve control arm pulled full back against the return spring.

P.S. Sorry Colin, didn't mean to step on your post. Wasn't there when I logged in, and had trouble posting due to some odd Captcha stuff going on here today. Your drawings would be great!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
udidwht
Samba Member


Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3777
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
udidwht is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:36 pm    Post subject: Re: How to adjust heat diverter / heat distribution valve ca Reply with quote

Nice thing about the 72's the adjustment is at the seat stand (frontside).
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Tcash
Samba Member


Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
Tcash is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:42 am    Post subject: Re: How to adjust heat diverter / heat distribution valve ca Reply with quote

Thank you eche-bus, I get it now.

Take a look at this eche-bus, and let me know what your thoughts are? I searched for probably an hour and cannot find a pic of the Diverter valve. It would really help.

eche_bus wrote:
I couldn't find anywhere that documents how to adjust the control cable that attaches to the heat diverter or distribution valve, so I spent the afternoon figuring it out for myself, and now I'm going to document it. I'm referring to the valve and end of cable located beneath the bus just below and in back of the front seats. It controls whether heat goes to the front or the rear of the bus. The vehicle is a 1976 Westy.

The (Diverter) Valve
Here is a photo showing the heat diverter valve. The cable has been detached from the valve's control arm and is shown dangling. A red arrow points to the valve control arm. The flex tube that runs to the rear heat vent has been removed from the right side of the valve and is shown hanging down.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The Cable
The end of the control cable has a "step" formed in it. Note also the rust-colored metal "ball" (crimped onto the cable) that is at the tip of the rubber boot. This is more important than I ever imagined. I refer to this later as a "ball stop".
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


[b]The Cable Jacket Retaining Clip

This is the clip that holds the cable housing/jacket to the (diverter) valve control arm. The curved tip (end) goes into a slot/hole in the (control) arm, and the flat end snaps into a cutout in the end of the (control) arm, locking the housing (/jacket) in place.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Cable Installation
The (stepped) end of the cable wire is inserted through a small hole in a (fixed) metal flange/tab that sits atop the diverter valve. You can't really see this flange from the left side of the valve. The only way I could see it (just barely) was to remove the rightmost heat tube from the valve. The arrow shows what you can reasonably see of the flange. Trust me, that little hole is there.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You've got to wiggle the cable a bit to get that step on the tip of the cable wire to pass all the way through the (fixed) hole, so it's sitting on the right hand side of the flange. I found this completely non-intuitive, as the cable wire is then free to travel back and forth through the (fixed) hole in the flange, like it couldn't possibly do anything ... until I discovered just how everything is supposed to work. Here's a view with the cable end properly through the (fixed) flange/tab hole.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


OK, so how is it supposed to work?
When #2 the leftmost dash lever, called the "Heat Distribution Lever" by VW is in the top (upper) position, the front and rear heat vents (footwells) are fully open. In the middle (position), the rear vent is closed, so heat just goes to the front (footwells). All the way down, heat is shunted (diverted)
completely up to the defrost vents.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Yeah, but what makes that possible?
Here's where it gets interesting. In order to work right, the heat diverter valve should only change position for (from) the top to middle range of the dash lever travel. In other words, the distribution (diverter) valve control arm should go through its entire range of motion as the dash lever is moved downward from the top (upper) position through (to) the middle position.

OK, but how can the dash lever still move down to Defrost?
If the distribution (diverter) valve control arm is already at its travel limit by the dash lever mid-point, then wouldn't trying to push the dash lever further down towards "Defrost" just end up jamming the lever and breaking the cable?
This is the key fact: The cable (wire inside the cable) doesn't actually move the diverter valve control arm. It only allows the control arm's spring tension to move the arm. (The cable housing/jacket moves it)

With the dash lever all the way up, the wire inside the cable is fully extended. (As the dash lever is moved upward from the middle position, the inner wire lengthens, and forces the ball stop against the fixed flange/tab. With the ball stop against the fixed flange/tab, the inner wire cannot move any further. Moving the lever further upward forces the cable housing/jacket to move away from the ball stop, and thus pushes and moves the diverter valve control arm.)
With the cable properly adjusted,
The (diverter) valve control arm will be at its rearward travel limit against the spring tension.
The ball stop will be against the (fixed diverter) valve flange/tab the cable wire goes through. with the hole in it and provides a stationary point for the cable to move against.

As the dash lever is moved downward towards the midpoint, the cable wire is drawn further inside the housing. This has the effect of shortening the distance between the ball stop and the cable housing, which allows the arm to pivot towards its forward travel limit.

Once the dash lever is moved down to the midpoint, (The cable housing/jacket is relaxed and moves toward the ball stop.) The valve control arm has reached its forward travel limit (from spring tension) and there is no longer any arm spring tension. Moving the lever down further into Defrost has no effect on the valve as although the cable wire continues to retract (through the hole in the flange/tab), it no longer has an effect on mechanically coupled to the control valve arm. By the way, the "L" (step) at the very tip of the cable wire serves only to prevent the wire from retracting too far (and coming out of the hole in the fixed flange/tab).

... and so ...

How to adjust the cable
1. Push the dash lever all the way up. Now get back under the bus.
2. Insert the cable jacket retaining clip into the hole in the diverter valve control arm, placing the cable under it, but don't snap it down.
3. Push on the cable jacket so the ball stop at the tip of the boot sits right up against that hidden (fixed) metal flange/tab the cable wire goes through at the top of the valve.
4. Pull the (diverter) valve control arm toward the rear of the bus, pulling against the spring tension, all the way to the travel limit.
5. Press the retaining clip down to snap in place, securing the cable.
6. Go back up inside the bus and move that dash lever midway down.
7. Crawl back under the bus and marvel that the control valve arm has moved all the way to the other end of travel!
8. Go back up inside the bus. Move that arm all the way down to Defrost. Note that it doesn't jam or bind.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


edit
Tcash
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50254

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: How to adjust heat diverter / heat distribution valve ca Reply with quote

udidwht wrote:
Nice thing about the 72's the adjustment is at the seat stand (frontside).


Agreed, a simpler system that gives better control of the heat distribution and doesn't lead to breakage of the NLA defroster cable.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
NASkeet
Samba Member


Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2947
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
NASkeet is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:30 am    Post subject: Re: How to adjust heat diverter / heat distribution valve ca Reply with quote

There are various companies, which specialise in fabricating various types of custom-made cables to order; either singly or as a batch.

These might be heater-cables, speedometer-cables, brake-cables, clutch-cables, throttle-cables, etc.

http://vintagebritishcables.com/

http://www.speedograph-richfield.com/index.html

http://www.cable-tec.co.uk/Product_Info.asp

http://www.speedycables.com/cables.html
_________________
Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper

Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)

http://www.vwt2oc.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Fairview
Samba Member


Joined: August 17, 2010
Posts: 147
Location: Waynesboro, Virginia
Fairview is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: How to adjust heat diverter / heat distribution valve cable Reply with quote

Thanks for this thread, just finished new heater cables and adjustment of the diverter valve, and the guidance here was invaluable! Jeff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kguarnotta
Samba Member


Joined: April 01, 2004
Posts: 1160
Location: Woodstock, NH
kguarnotta is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: How to adjust heat diverter / heat distribution valve cable Reply with quote

Hi Guys - a little late to the show. I'm working on my '78 Westy. This was not connected on my, but he PO gave me the cable. I'm doing some work on the bus, and figured now might be a good time to tackle this.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
-Kevin
Lincoln, MA

'86 Triple Knob Syncro w/EJ22
'78 Westy
'69 Single Cab
'65 Kombi - EZ-Camper
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kguarnotta
Samba Member


Joined: April 01, 2004
Posts: 1160
Location: Woodstock, NH
kguarnotta is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: How to adjust heat diverter / heat distribution valve cable Reply with quote

I sort of see how this thing should work - but am unable to achieve it. I just posted those pics to help others.

The cable on my '78 was not in place, but I put one in. Hopefully routed it correctly. I attached it at the dashboard - not too hard.

Now attaching it to the arm on the distribution box is not working for me.

Is the retaining clip supposed to grab the hard plastic sheathing, or the ball at the end of the wire, or is it supposed to go over that rubbery bellows where it goes over the plastic sheathing of the wire.

Lastly - or maybe I should have asked this first - when I thread the wire through the frame it is very long. So when I am attaching it to the distribution box lever the whole cable goes past the box, then has a loop, and is pointing towards the front of the bus. Is that correct?
_________________
-Kevin
Lincoln, MA

'86 Triple Knob Syncro w/EJ22
'78 Westy
'69 Single Cab
'65 Kombi - EZ-Camper
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
SGKent Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
SGKent is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: How to adjust heat diverter / heat distribution valve cable Reply with quote

thqt is the first time I have seen the inside of one of those. Does anyone know if both flaps are supposed to partially close against each other like that or were they designed to fold over each other. It would seem that if they catch like that then there is a reduced flow to both the front and back - which is what I see on my 1977 when the rear facing footwell is turned down.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kguarnotta
Samba Member


Joined: April 01, 2004
Posts: 1160
Location: Woodstock, NH
kguarnotta is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: How to adjust heat diverter / heat distribution valve cable Reply with quote

Ok - this is how I think it works. In the absence of any cable - 95-99% of the heat goes to the front of the bus (think footwell or defroster). You lose 1 to 5% because these things don't seal perfectly, and a little goes to the rear of the bus.

By the way those percentages are totally made up.

When you connect the cable - and shift the left lever all the way to the top - half the heat should go to the front and half to the back of the bus. (not exactly half, but that is the general idea).

When you shift the left lever to the middle the heat goes to the footwell, when you shift the left lever to the bottom - the heat all goes to the defroster. At least in theory.

Hope that helps. I'm just trying to figure the correct way to attach that cable - I keep reading the explanation over and over.

I finally stuck my cell phone above the dist. box, and took a photo. Now I understand a LOT more.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Now I see a tiny hole, that I think the end of the cable goes in. I'll give it a shot, and see what happens.
_________________
-Kevin
Lincoln, MA

'86 Triple Knob Syncro w/EJ22
'78 Westy
'69 Single Cab
'65 Kombi - EZ-Camper
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
SGKent Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
SGKent is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: How to adjust heat diverter / heat distribution valve cable Reply with quote

I have been in all the connection places so I understand a little. I have never been inside a diverter box on an early or late bay.

The late bay and early bay are quite different as to heat. On an early bay there are two levers for heat. Each lever controls a heater box in the back. There is a lever on the footwell that determines how much heat goes up or down. There is a lever just under and a head of the driver seat that controls the diverter to the back. In addition there are levers on many of the back seat heat risers that turn them on or off.

On a late bay there is one lever that pulls both cables to the heat boxes. If it is hard to pull you can use a motorcycle cable sprayer to lubricate the cables which makes them work smoothly.

There is a lever that controls where the heat goes and the boost fan in the back. The sheath on the cable from that lever to the relay on the footwell is broken on purpose. It allows that lever to float in between front and divert so the defrost also works. Getting it right is a PITA and I have yet to get mine right. Then there is the diverter under the bus. Getting the cable on, and I believe a return spring along with the bellows is a PITA also. It is mostly by feel. I always though that the diverter was an on or off thing but seeing that photo now makes me wonder how it is designed to work. I may be judging how my 1977 works in heater flow compared to how my 1971 worked. Looking at the photo it is almost like the defrost and rear facing vents are designed to flow something all the time, unlike the 1971 which flowed all or none depending on lever settings. The thought process is kinda funky looking at that diverter photo. It is like turning the faucet on to brush your teeth and the shower comes on a little too expecting you will take a shower next.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kguarnotta
Samba Member


Joined: April 01, 2004
Posts: 1160
Location: Woodstock, NH
kguarnotta is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: How to adjust heat diverter / heat distribution valve cable Reply with quote

I think I've got it all working now...man it was a bear.

That little tiny hole in the steel, that I would have never found without my cellphone camera - was the missing piece for my brain.

The way it works - with left lever fully up - diverter is fully open, so half the air goes to the back, and 1/2 to the front. With the lever half way down - half goes to the front defrost, and half to your feet, with it all the way down - it all goes to defrosting.

That lever basically has two wires on it. One wire connected to the diverter box - in the up position the air is diverted. in the middle or bottom position the air goes to the front of the bus.

The second wire connects to the diverter under the dash. In the up and middle position - the air goes to the defroster and the foot heater. With the lever all the way down, the air all goes to the defroster.

At least that is how I think it works.

Next step - figure out how to insulate all those tubes under the bus, and try to seal any holes in teh duct work....any ideas for insulation?
_________________
-Kevin
Lincoln, MA

'86 Triple Knob Syncro w/EJ22
'78 Westy
'69 Single Cab
'65 Kombi - EZ-Camper
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
SGKent Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
SGKent is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: How to adjust heat diverter / heat distribution valve cable Reply with quote

Have Ken Madsen (thebusco) find you donor parts. There are lots of ways to fix it up including new aircraft ducting from places like AircraftSpruce etc http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ap/ducting.html
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50254

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:40 pm    Post subject: Re: How to adjust heat diverter / heat distribution valve cable Reply with quote

FWIW, you can put an awful lot of work into the stock heater system and find that is doesn't work all that well. I went that route at one point and pretty much gave up on the idea of ever having good heat for a while. Then a Samba member by the name of Duncwarw did some heater testing, seemed to get good results and then disappeared. I didn't do much beyond what he did, but got good results and have slowly expanded on them. Many of these ideas are shown in the Blumaxx thread.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=371749&highlight=blumaxx

The basic idea is to dump the heat from the right heater box into the cab under the back seat while continuing to run the left heater box to the front while augmenting its flow with an inline blower. This will mean that the rear seats of the passenger compartment are too hot to be comfortable when the front windshield enough air to do a good job of defrosting. The solution is to split the two heater boxe control cables from each other. Hook the cable from the left heater box up to the left lever and the cable from the right heater box up to the middle lever, removing all other cables. You can now control the heat to the front and rear of the cab independently all the while having maybe three times the heat of the factory set up. By using parts from earlier Bays, which SG Kent mentions you can make the defroster/footwell valve function normally. The diverter under the middle of the bus is left slightly cracked and wired in place.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kguarnotta
Samba Member


Joined: April 01, 2004
Posts: 1160
Location: Woodstock, NH
kguarnotta is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:30 am    Post subject: Re: How to adjust heat diverter / heat distribution valve cable Reply with quote

Hi Wildthings - that sounds like a good idea - but at this point I want to keep the bus as close to stock.

What you are suggesting makes much more sense from a practical standpoint - but if I wanted practical - I wouldn't drive a bus Wink

I've also read a lot of conflicting reports on the efficiency of the stock heating system. Some claim it work ok - some say it doesn't work at all. I'd be happy with it working ok - at this point. If I end up driving it more in colder weather, my tune may change. Once the snow starts falling they salt the roads, and my bus goes into storage.

As for hitting up ken at the bus co for duct work - I'm looking for new ductwork. Someone must make it, right? Some of my duct work is in ok shape, but I've got a hole in one section.

I think I'll take some of that aluminized bubble wrap stuff and wrap the duct work. I've read somewhere on here that it helps a lot. I'm also going to go over all the ductwork - and check for any leaks.
_________________
-Kevin
Lincoln, MA

'86 Triple Knob Syncro w/EJ22
'78 Westy
'69 Single Cab
'65 Kombi - EZ-Camper
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.