Author |
Message |
vanis13 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010 Posts: 3100 Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
|
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins |
|
|
My experience with the above about propane/mapp is same.
That being said, it takes longer and it heats more stuff around. the Oxy is nice since you can often get the nut red w/o boiling the axle grease. _________________ 83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
|
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:29 am Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins |
|
|
I bought my first oxy-act rig right after I first entered the job market. Not a particularly expensive purchase and it has paid me back many times over. I can't imagine trying to heat an axle nut with a homeonwer style propane torch, it would probably take 50 times as long and boil the heck out of the grease. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
insyncro Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 15086 Location: New York
|
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:32 am Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins |
|
|
Wildthings wrote: |
I bought my first oxy-act rig right after I first entered the job market. Not a particularly expensive purchase and it has paid me back many times over. I can't imagine trying to heat an axle nut with a homeonwer style propane torch, it would probably take 50 times as long and boil the heck out of the grease. |
Yup.
It's all about using the proper tools.
Couldn't agree more. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
atomatom Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2012 Posts: 1867 Location: in an 84 Westy or Bowen Island, BC
|
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins |
|
|
jed has a great video on this
Link
_________________ 84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9618 Location: Western WA
|
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins |
|
|
Perfect, thanks! 61Scout thats all I needed, good luck with your project. If you have anything to add (for me or other members) who just hafta git'er done the forum needs this useful content.
So the axle is a tight fit in the bearing inner race, but not a press-fit. We'll see what's next.
Hope it's not "knackered"! _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Reck Samba Member
Joined: January 20, 2015 Posts: 73 Location: Santa Fe, NM
|
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins |
|
|
I've got a stubborn one. Have tried a 3' breaker bar, MAPP canister heat, a big brass slug wrench and small sledge, a 3/4" impact wrench, an EMPI thingamajig. I'm starting to like the Dremel approach. Do I understand people are cutting a slot in the nut perpendicular to the axis of the axle? Or are they cutting along the axle axis, as far as the arc of the disc will allow before hitting the thread? Then hitting the slot with a chisel? Thanks for clarification. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tom Powell Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005 Posts: 4855 Location: Kaneohe
|
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins |
|
|
I used a six foot pipe over the breaker bar and jumped up and down on the end. That worked for one side. For the other side I cut the nut, parallel with the axle, down to the threads. The last part I did with a hand file trying not to damage the threads. Then I used a chisel and the breaker bar and six foot pipe to bust the nut.
Aloha
tp |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22670 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
|
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:35 am Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins |
|
|
Heat, 3/4 46mm socket, 3/4 breaker bar.
Never used an extension. It's all about the heat. _________________ .ssS! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Reck Samba Member
Joined: January 20, 2015 Posts: 73 Location: Santa Fe, NM
|
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins |
|
|
Nothing worked for me, granted I don't have acetylene, only MAPP, and my breaker bar's a puny 3' (plus 18" cheater). But I did try two types of slug wrench. Finally got it off, here's what it looked like after it lost the battle. I'll write up a little blow-by-blow here when I get the chance, for other resource-deficient driveway mechanics.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
|
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins |
|
|
Abscate wrote: |
Heat, 3/4 46mm socket, 3/4 breaker bar.
Never used an extension. It's all about the heat. |
Glowing steel is beautiful isn't it? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
chrissev2 Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2012 Posts: 246 Location: Toronto
|
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins |
|
|
Wildthings wrote: |
Abscate wrote: |
Heat, 3/4 46mm socket, 3/4 breaker bar.
Never used an extension. It's all about the heat. |
Glowing steel is beautiful isn't it? |
Just did this job on my 1986 Vanagon Westfalia after reading this thread.
What I can say is you guys are doing a bang up job on getting these nuts off using heat, cutting them up, torches, large extension brackets, etc, etc. Looks like very hard work and I admire your courage and dedication.
However you are all wasting your time.
I agree with the previous posters using the "sledgehammer method" with the EMPI tool.
Order one of these:
http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1216_335/46mm_axle_nut_tool.html
Remove the cotter pin, put this over the rear axle nut, and hit it with a sledge hammer.
Takes about 15 seconds per side, axle nut comes right off, easy as pie. Had the entire removal job done in less than a minute.
Had booked the entire day to do the job, brought up my heavy duty drill, torch equipment, grinder, extension bar with heavy duty adapter.
Was pleasantly surprised. Easiest removal job ever. _________________ 1986 westfalia auto 1.9TD
2023 VW Atlas 3.6 VR6 Highline
2019 Golf Wagon 4 motion
1978 Volkswagen super beetle convertible
1992 Eurovan 2.5 5spd westfalia |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
|
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins |
|
|
chrissev2 wrote: |
Wildthings wrote: |
Abscate wrote: |
Heat, 3/4 46mm socket, 3/4 breaker bar.
Never used an extension. It's all about the heat. |
Glowing steel is beautiful isn't it? |
Just did this job on my 1986 Vanagon Westfalia after reading this thread.
What I can say is you guys are doing a bang up job on getting these nuts off using heat, cutting them up, torches, large extension brackets, etc, etc. Looks like very hard work and I admire your courage and dedication.
However you are all wasting your time.
I agree with the previous posters using the "sledgehammer method" with the EMPI tool.
Order one of these:
http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1216_335/46mm_axle_nut_tool.html
Remove the cotter pin, put this over the rear axle nut, and hit it with a sledge hammer.
Takes about 15 seconds per side, axle nut comes right off, easy as pie. Had the entire removal job done in less than a minute.
Had booked the entire day to do the job, brought up my heavy duty drill, torch equipment, grinder, extension bar with heavy duty adapter.
Was pleasantly surprised. Easiest removal job ever. |
Reck had said he used two different kinds of slug wrenches, but I of course wasn't there to see how he was actually going about it. Yes a real industrial slug wrench and a heavy sledge should loosen the nut on the first hit.
https://www.amazon.com/Urrea-2646SWM-121-Point-Off...ing+wrench
. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9618 Location: Western WA
|
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:21 am Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins |
|
|
chrissev2 wrote: |
I agree with the previous posters using the "sledgehammer method" with the EMPI tool.
Order one of these:
http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1216_335/46mm_axle_nut_tool.html
Remove the cotter pin, put this over the rear axle nut, and hit it with a sledge hammer.
Takes about 15 seconds per side, axle nut comes right off, easy as pie. Had the entire removal job done in less than a minute.
Had booked the entire day to do the job, brought up my heavy duty drill, torch equipment, grinder, extension bar with heavy duty adapter.
Was pleasantly surprised. Easiest removal job ever. |
ooops, you are forgetting that some folks are not throwing their old bearings in the trash, but re-greasing, trying to extend the life of their OEM bearings. And wouldn't hit a precious, precision unit that the vehicle rolls on,,,,with a sledge. Hitting ANY bearings (that will be re-used) with a sledge is practically illegal in all other forms of mechanikking. I'm not sure what happened here, perhaps the simple availability of a tool (the EMPI) may have created this departure from normal mechanikking. Must be OK !!
In addition, if you ovalize your "Rear stub axle bearing housing", remember they're no longer available. There is some sense in not hitting your housing with anything but potholes (thru a pneumatic cushion). I think the EMPI tool was OK back in the day when you could get a low-miles replacement housings off a van cuz the heads leaked. Also it wasn't known that OEM bearings could be precious, perhaps "better than new" ---- those days are over. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Last edited by Sodo on Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:16 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
T3 Pilot Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2011 Posts: 1507 Location: Deep South of the Great White North
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9618 Location: Western WA
|
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins |
|
|
.....or the housings. Yep those loose housings that Burley refers to were ruined by sharp, sledgelike pothole impacts transmitted across pneumatic tires to the wheel. CERTAINLY not from the thousands of slug wrenches encountered by Vanagons ....
ooopps I'm guilty too, but it was long ago. Back when spare parts were dime-a-dozen and you couldn't barely give away a vanagon with a headgasket leak. I am pretty hardcore shadetree but I wouldn't slug a bearing today. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
|
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins |
|
|
The dynamic loading on the bearing and hub probably exceeds 5000# at times, over and over and over when going down a rough dirt road. With the slug wrench I linked to the blow is going to be applied about a foot out from the center of the bearing. Assuming the nut yields at 1000ft/lbs then you will be applying about a #1000 pound load to the bearings and this load is only going to be applied once or twice per removal cycle. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22670 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
|
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins |
|
|
Oxy-acetylene >> bashing, every time.
It also has many other uses, unlike the bash tool,which can only serve as an ashtray _________________ .ssS! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Merian Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014 Posts: 5212 Location: Orygun
|
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins |
|
|
or as a defensive weapon
I agree that impact (used correctly) will not harm anything. I wonder about what heat will do in terms of altering material properties of the axle nut, and whether it can be safely reused. _________________ .... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
wesitarz Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2012 Posts: 1491 Location: Victoria,B.C.Canada
|
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins |
|
|
socket and 7' cheater pipe worked on one side,but not the other. EMPI tool and sledge didn't work. Only had propane torch. Took it to a VW mechanic - impact wrench no, torch + impact a few times worked. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
chrissev2 Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2012 Posts: 246 Location: Toronto
|
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:54 am Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins |
|
|
Sodo wrote: |
chrissev2 wrote: |
I agree with the previous posters using the "sledgehammer method" with the EMPI tool.
Order one of these:
http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1216_335/46mm_axle_nut_tool.html
Remove the cotter pin, put this over the rear axle nut, and hit it with a sledge hammer.
Takes about 15 seconds per side, axle nut comes right off, easy as pie. Had the entire removal job done in less than a minute.
Had booked the entire day to do the job, brought up my heavy duty drill, torch equipment, grinder, extension bar with heavy duty adapter.
Was pleasantly surprised. Easiest removal job ever. |
ooops, you are forgetting that some folks are not throwing their old bearings in the trash, but re-greasing, trying to extend the life of their OEM bearings. And wouldn't hit a precious, precision unit that the vehicle rolls on,,,,with a sledge. Hitting ANY bearings (that will be re-used) with a sledge is practically illegal in all other forms of mechanikking. I'm not sure what happened here, perhaps the simple availability of a tool (the EMPI) may have created this departure from normal mechanikking. Must be OK !!
In addition, if you ovalize your "Rear stub axle bearing housing", remember they're no longer available. There is some sense in not hitting your housing with anything but potholes (thru a pneumatic cushion). I think the EMPI tool was OK back in the day when you could get a low-miles replacement housings off a van cuz the heads leaked. Also it wasn't known that OEM bearings could be precious, perhaps "better than new" ---- those days are over. |
This isn't true at all. It takes about three sharp "hits" with the sledgehammer to loosen that nut. They are not hard hits and nothing is damaged in the process.
People really have to try this. I can't see how the sledgehammer method would cause more damage than the other methods I've read about on here. Heating up the axle, long extension bars, drilling into the nut (and damaging the threads on the "no longer available" stub axle in the process). All of these methods cause more damage than a few quick, sharp blows with a hammer to the EMPI tool.
I re-used my bearings after removing with the sledgehammer method. They were fine. You don't need to hit it that hard.
Chris _________________ 1986 westfalia auto 1.9TD
2023 VW Atlas 3.6 VR6 Highline
2019 Golf Wagon 4 motion
1978 Volkswagen super beetle convertible
1992 Eurovan 2.5 5spd westfalia |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|