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Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins
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vanis13
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:36 am    Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins Reply with quote

My experience with the above about propane/mapp is same.

That being said, it takes longer and it heats more stuff around. the Oxy is nice since you can often get the nut red w/o boiling the axle grease.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins Reply with quote

I bought my first oxy-act rig right after I first entered the job market. Not a particularly expensive purchase and it has paid me back many times over. I can't imagine trying to heat an axle nut with a homeonwer style propane torch, it would probably take 50 times as long and boil the heck out of the grease.
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:32 am    Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
I bought my first oxy-act rig right after I first entered the job market. Not a particularly expensive purchase and it has paid me back many times over. I can't imagine trying to heat an axle nut with a homeonwer style propane torch, it would probably take 50 times as long and boil the heck out of the grease.


Yup.
It's all about using the proper tools.
Couldn't agree more.
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atomatom
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:08 am    Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins Reply with quote

jed has a great video on this


Link

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Sodo
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins Reply with quote

Perfect, thanks! 61Scout thats all I needed, good luck with your project. If you have anything to add (for me or other members) who just hafta git'er done the forum needs this useful content.

So the axle is a tight fit in the bearing inner race, but not a press-fit. We'll see what's next.

Hope it's not "knackered"! Laughing
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Reck
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins Reply with quote

I've got a stubborn one. Have tried a 3' breaker bar, MAPP canister heat, a big brass slug wrench and small sledge, a 3/4" impact wrench, an EMPI thingamajig. I'm starting to like the Dremel approach. Do I understand people are cutting a slot in the nut perpendicular to the axis of the axle? Or are they cutting along the axle axis, as far as the arc of the disc will allow before hitting the thread? Then hitting the slot with a chisel? Thanks for clarification.
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Tom Powell
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins Reply with quote

I used a six foot pipe over the breaker bar and jumped up and down on the end. That worked for one side. For the other side I cut the nut, parallel with the axle, down to the threads. The last part I did with a hand file trying not to damage the threads. Then I used a chisel and the breaker bar and six foot pipe to bust the nut.

Aloha
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Abscate
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:35 am    Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins Reply with quote

Heat, 3/4 46mm socket, 3/4 breaker bar.

Never used an extension. It's all about the heat.
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Reck
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins Reply with quote

Nothing worked for me, granted I don't have acetylene, only MAPP, and my breaker bar's a puny 3' (plus 18" cheater). But I did try two types of slug wrench. Finally got it off, here's what it looked like after it lost the battle. I'll write up a little blow-by-blow here when I get the chance, for other resource-deficient driveway mechanics.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
Heat, 3/4 46mm socket, 3/4 breaker bar.

Never used an extension. It's all about the heat.
Glowing steel is beautiful isn't it?
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chrissev2
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
Abscate wrote:
Heat, 3/4 46mm socket, 3/4 breaker bar.

Never used an extension. It's all about the heat.
Glowing steel is beautiful isn't it?


Just did this job on my 1986 Vanagon Westfalia after reading this thread.

What I can say is you guys are doing a bang up job on getting these nuts off using heat, cutting them up, torches, large extension brackets, etc, etc. Looks like very hard work and I admire your courage and dedication.

However you are all wasting your time.

I agree with the previous posters using the "sledgehammer method" with the EMPI tool.

Order one of these:

http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1216_335/46mm_axle_nut_tool.html

Remove the cotter pin, put this over the rear axle nut, and hit it with a sledge hammer.

Takes about 15 seconds per side, axle nut comes right off, easy as pie. Had the entire removal job done in less than a minute.

Had booked the entire day to do the job, brought up my heavy duty drill, torch equipment, grinder, extension bar with heavy duty adapter.

Was pleasantly surprised. Easiest removal job ever.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins Reply with quote

chrissev2 wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
Abscate wrote:
Heat, 3/4 46mm socket, 3/4 breaker bar.

Never used an extension. It's all about the heat.
Glowing steel is beautiful isn't it?


Just did this job on my 1986 Vanagon Westfalia after reading this thread.

What I can say is you guys are doing a bang up job on getting these nuts off using heat, cutting them up, torches, large extension brackets, etc, etc. Looks like very hard work and I admire your courage and dedication.

However you are all wasting your time.

I agree with the previous posters using the "sledgehammer method" with the EMPI tool.

Order one of these:

http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1216_335/46mm_axle_nut_tool.html

Remove the cotter pin, put this over the rear axle nut, and hit it with a sledge hammer.

Takes about 15 seconds per side, axle nut comes right off, easy as pie. Had the entire removal job done in less than a minute.

Had booked the entire day to do the job, brought up my heavy duty drill, torch equipment, grinder, extension bar with heavy duty adapter.

Was pleasantly surprised. Easiest removal job ever.


Reck had said he used two different kinds of slug wrenches, but I of course wasn't there to see how he was actually going about it. Yes a real industrial slug wrench and a heavy sledge should loosen the nut on the first hit.

https://www.amazon.com/Urrea-2646SWM-121-Point-Off...ing+wrench


.
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:21 am    Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins Reply with quote

chrissev2 wrote:
I agree with the previous posters using the "sledgehammer method" with the EMPI tool.

Order one of these:

http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1216_335/46mm_axle_nut_tool.html

Remove the cotter pin, put this over the rear axle nut, and hit it with a sledge hammer.

Takes about 15 seconds per side, axle nut comes right off, easy as pie. Had the entire removal job done in less than a minute.

Had booked the entire day to do the job, brought up my heavy duty drill, torch equipment, grinder, extension bar with heavy duty adapter.

Was pleasantly surprised. Easiest removal job ever.


ooops, you are forgetting that some folks are not throwing their old bearings in the trash, but re-greasing, trying to extend the life of their OEM bearings. And wouldn't hit a precious, precision unit that the vehicle rolls on,,,,with a sledge. Hitting ANY bearings (that will be re-used) with a sledge is practically illegal in all other forms of mechanikking. I'm not sure what happened here, perhaps the simple availability of a tool (the EMPI) may have created this departure from normal mechanikking. Must be OK !!

In addition, if you ovalize your "Rear stub axle bearing housing", remember they're no longer available. There is some sense in not hitting your housing with anything but potholes (thru a pneumatic cushion). I think the EMPI tool was OK back in the day when you could get a low-miles replacement housings off a van cuz the heads leaked. Also it wasn't known that OEM bearings could be precious, perhaps "better than new" ---- those days are over.
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'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb


Last edited by Sodo on Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:16 pm; edited 2 times in total
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T3 Pilot
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins Reply with quote

http://burleysmotorsports.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=25_36&products_id=121

Impacting the axle spindle nut is not going to harm the bearings.
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins Reply with quote

T3 Pilot wrote:
http://burleysmotorsports.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=25_36&products_id=121

Impacting the axle spindle nut is not going to harm the bearings.


.....or the housings. Yep those loose housings that Burley refers to were ruined by sharp, sledgelike pothole impacts transmitted across pneumatic tires to the wheel. CERTAINLY not from the thousands of slug wrenches encountered by Vanagons .... Laughing Laughing

ooopps I'm guilty too, but it was long ago. Back when spare parts were dime-a-dozen and you couldn't barely give away a vanagon with a headgasket leak. I am pretty hardcore shadetree but I wouldn't slug a bearing today.
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....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins Reply with quote

The dynamic loading on the bearing and hub probably exceeds 5000# at times, over and over and over when going down a rough dirt road. With the slug wrench I linked to the blow is going to be applied about a foot out from the center of the bearing. Assuming the nut yields at 1000ft/lbs then you will be applying about a #1000 pound load to the bearings and this load is only going to be applied once or twice per removal cycle.
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Abscate
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins Reply with quote

Oxy-acetylene >> bashing, every time.

It also has many other uses, unlike the bash tool,which can only serve as an ashtray
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins Reply with quote

or as a defensive weapon

I agree that impact (used correctly) will not harm anything. I wonder about what heat will do in terms of altering material properties of the axle nut, and whether it can be safely reused.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins Reply with quote

socket and 7' cheater pipe worked on one side,but not the other. EMPI tool and sledge didn't work. Only had propane torch. Took it to a VW mechanic - impact wrench no, torch + impact a few times worked.
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chrissev2
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:54 am    Post subject: Re: Rear axle nut(s) - the battle begins Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:
chrissev2 wrote:
I agree with the previous posters using the "sledgehammer method" with the EMPI tool.

Order one of these:

http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1216_335/46mm_axle_nut_tool.html

Remove the cotter pin, put this over the rear axle nut, and hit it with a sledge hammer.

Takes about 15 seconds per side, axle nut comes right off, easy as pie. Had the entire removal job done in less than a minute.

Had booked the entire day to do the job, brought up my heavy duty drill, torch equipment, grinder, extension bar with heavy duty adapter.

Was pleasantly surprised. Easiest removal job ever.


ooops, you are forgetting that some folks are not throwing their old bearings in the trash, but re-greasing, trying to extend the life of their OEM bearings. And wouldn't hit a precious, precision unit that the vehicle rolls on,,,,with a sledge. Hitting ANY bearings (that will be re-used) with a sledge is practically illegal in all other forms of mechanikking. I'm not sure what happened here, perhaps the simple availability of a tool (the EMPI) may have created this departure from normal mechanikking. Must be OK !!

In addition, if you ovalize your "Rear stub axle bearing housing", remember they're no longer available. There is some sense in not hitting your housing with anything but potholes (thru a pneumatic cushion). I think the EMPI tool was OK back in the day when you could get a low-miles replacement housings off a van cuz the heads leaked. Also it wasn't known that OEM bearings could be precious, perhaps "better than new" ---- those days are over.


This isn't true at all. It takes about three sharp "hits" with the sledgehammer to loosen that nut. They are not hard hits and nothing is damaged in the process.

People really have to try this. I can't see how the sledgehammer method would cause more damage than the other methods I've read about on here. Heating up the axle, long extension bars, drilling into the nut (and damaging the threads on the "no longer available" stub axle in the process). All of these methods cause more damage than a few quick, sharp blows with a hammer to the EMPI tool.

I re-used my bearings after removing with the sledgehammer method. They were fine. You don't need to hit it that hard.

Chris
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