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onwardtothestars Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007 Posts: 225 Location: Hazenville Pass Wyoming
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:58 am Post subject: Re: Manual Transaxle oil cooler bung fittings (homebrew) |
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Sodo wrote: |
.... I just put 4 quarts in because that's appx the correct amount, but I'd like to check the level |
Wouldn't the capacity be increased with the hoses, filter, and pump? _________________ lots of VW's |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9517 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Manual Transaxle oil cooler bung fittings (homebrew) |
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onwardtothestars wrote: |
Sodo wrote: |
.... I just put 4 quarts in because that's appx the correct amount, but I'd like to check the level |
Wouldn't the capacity be increased with the hoses, filter, and pump? |
Ooops yeah you're right, what really happened was, "after filling the hoses, pump, filter, cooler...." I added ~4 quarts. I don't know how much oil those components hold. That's why I want an oil level check hole on the driver-side. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9517 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: Manual Transaxle oil cooler bung fittings (homebrew) |
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For members currently planning a cooler system, AlikaT3 has these cooler fittings for sale,
please see his ad in Samba classified.
They are threaded for an M14 Banjo fitting.
The link to buy the Banjos (Pegasus Racing) is in his ad.
Various banjos are also available on Amazon, eBay, search "14mm banjo" and 9/16" banjo. But you'll need a M14x1.5 banjo bolt.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9517 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: Manual Transaxle oil cooler bung fittings (homebrew) |
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Sodo wrote: |
Thru a strange turn of events I had to install an UN-drilled transaxle in my van. To plumb the cooled oil back in used (this thread topic's) filler-bung squirter, (which squirts oil upward at 4th gear & mainshaft bearing). The cooler system is running great. Thois wonderful trans runs so cool the cooler system rarely starts up, but I haven't driven in real hot weather.
One major hassle I can report is....CHECKING YOUR OIL LEVEL. Once you put this squirter into the oil filler bung, and attach a hose to it, and re-attach the shift linkage etc....... wrenches can't get to your fitting. You have to remove all that the shifter monkeybusiness to to unscrew the fittings (to check oil level).
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Been working on a fitting that allows checking oil level with the cooler hose attached. And no drilling the trans case.
Not finished yet,,, ( and NOT TESTED ! ) but I'm outta town for a few days and wanted to post something so you fellas have some pics to look at
& don't bail on TheSamba while I'm gone.....
Material is stainless steel. It's M24x1.5mm tapered pipe I plan to weld a nozzle on to shoot it directly at 4th gear and the cast "mainshaft oil relief".
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EDIT: If you are copying this fitting,,,hold on there pardner... it has some problems... needs to be longer so the 8AN can spin around. see later posts
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So I'll put a 3/8 NPT pipe plug into this hole. And when removing it (if the trans is 'full' ) a little oil will flow out.
Didn't have time to test it on the Van, thats next week, after I add the nozzle. I'm also working on a Stainless "outlet" fitting (at the bellhousing) hope that works out. Smallcar has more space, and I don't know about the RJES. On the VW bellhousing it's tight. Thats why ALIKA T3 is using banjo fittings. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Last edited by Sodo on Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9517 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: Manual Transaxle oil cooler bung fittings (homebrew) |
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Sodo wrote: |
Didn't have time to test it on the Van, thats next week, after I add the nozzle. |
Not working out yet... it's too tight like this; the hose kinks at the fuel tank. Note: the shifter mechanism has been removed.
Added an elbow and it works perfectly.
Sodo wrote: |
Smallcar has more space, and I don't know about the RJES. On the VW bellhousing it's tight. Thats why ALIKA T3 is using banjo fittings. |
The oil drain fitting looks OK though. This one fits a VW bellhousing. It has:
M24x1.5 tapered pipe thread
1/4 NPT drainplug
8AN cooler system fitting
Had to clearannce the bellhousing slightly. Could have clearanced the fitting corners instead of the bellhousing.
EDIT: (I shortened the drain Tee by 8mm) _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Last edited by Sodo on Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6798 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Manual Transaxle oil cooler bung fittings (homebrew) |
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Sodo your drain fitting works great if you do not have the Skid Plate Guard that can be mounted underneath to protect the eng/gearbox.
It would be a hassle to have to drop it to drain the oil.
If you do not have that your drain fitting is a way to go.
I used Alika's Drain plug plus the AN8 banjo to connect to a AN8 "T". Female with two male ends.
Unfortunately the drain port does stick out too far for my liking right now.
Making come straight down would have to have a hole drilled through the angle bend of the guard and I did not want to put a hole there.
You could also use the "T" on the fill port as well. I was going to get one to attach to the fitting I got from you, but forgot to get one. _________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.
Last edited by Steve M. on Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9517 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Manual Transaxle oil cooler bung fittings (homebrew) |
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Dropping the skid bars is a pain, but doable. I have the Smallcar bellhousing, which the bars are extended one inch, so I have lots more space there.
Steve thanks for that pic. That's a clean setup and shows the relationship between the outlet and the skid bars well for the VW bellhousing./ A 2WD doesn't have that problem. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6798 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Manual Transaxle oil cooler bung fittings (homebrew) |
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Sodo wrote: |
Dropping the skid bars is a pain, but doable. I have the Smallcar bellhousing, which the bars are extended one inch, so I have lots more space there.
Steve thanks for that pic. That's a clean setup and shows the relationship between the outlet and the skid bars well for the VW bellhousing./ A 2WD doesn't have that problem. |
Thanks. Well here's a better pic showing how far it sticks out. I think it makes it vunerable so I might make a simple cover to protect it if I have time. The gray paint is cold galvanizing paint to give some protection to the cutout's nice bare metal.
_________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10067 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Manual Transaxle oil cooler bung fittings (homebrew) |
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SteveMc wrote: |
A bored through tube fitting would allow greater flexibility in directing the oil flow. |
I was thinking this is the most difficult approach to the spray nozzle fittings, seems SteveMc thought the same back on p.1., but he was, predictably, ignored.
Just thru-bore a 1/4" or 3/8" MPT to 1/4" compression adapter fitting, and tap the center of the 24mm bung plug to 1/4" or 3/8" FPT. Bend a tube that would reach up over the splash plate and direct its flow downward onto the 4th gear/bearing area, and it could be easily manipulated into place. The comp fitting slides freely over the tube, the MPT end can be tightened into the hole and then the comp end snugged up onto the tube once it's indexed to the right position. Another comp fitting can be added to the free end of the tube to adapt to the feed. No jigging and welding required, and easily disassembled. _________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9517 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:50 pm Post subject: Re: Manual Transaxle oil cooler bung fittings (homebrew) |
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tencentlife wrote: |
SteveMc wrote: |
A bored through tube fitting would allow greater flexibility in directing the oil flow. |
I was thinking this is the most difficult approach to the spray nozzle fittings, seems SteveMc thought the same back on p.1., but he was, predictably, ignored. |
Yep it's pretty standard; no pic = no comment. But SteveMc is a first-responder to all problems Vanagon, classic old-school SAMBA! I like that!
This is a feasible non-welding method. But much MORE difficult to check your transaxle oil level. However, it's ideal for those with oiling-plates installed. It would blast oil at the cast-in oil relief that feeds/cools our beleaguered mainshaft bearing.
I sketched this so those following this thread can understand the method described (and build it!) It wouldn't be too hard, if you have an oiling plate sample and an "intermediate housing" in hand. And the tubing shape documented, described here on TheSamba. Not just "easy" for anyone, but can be done without a welder.
Also note that if you don't have oiling plates, the nozzle angle is "easy"; it's just a straight shot which possibly can be done from below the van. But easier, by far, if you can use an "intermediate housing" to build your bung nozzle.
FYI: 3/8NPT thread is about 16mm, which can be tapped inside the 17mm hex socket. I suppose you can get a 3/8" tube fitting wit a 3/8NPT male thread. 3/8" is a little small for 2GPM, but you take what you can get.... Also 2 GPM is a LOT, I'm sure 1 GPM would offer a more-than-adequate level of cooling. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Last edited by Sodo on Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9517 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:21 am Post subject: Re: Manual Transaxle oil cooler bung fittings (homebrew) |
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OK here's my Stainless fitting prototypes, done I think.
The oil inlet with nozzle to squirt at the 4th gear mesh and mainshaft bearing oil passageway. M24x1.5mm pipe thread (DIN906).
With an oil level check plug. Heres a pic installed.
The oil drain fitting. M24x1.5mm pipe thread (DIN906). 8AN fitting with a drain plug.
This pic shows the size of the oil passageways, a little less than 3/8" diameter. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9517 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Manual Transaxle oil cooler bung fittings (homebrew) |
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I made some Stainless steel inlet nozzles. They are in theSamba classified Ad here.
Sorry they're $125 but they took so long to make - I had to do it.
I don't have any outlet (drain) fittings. But could make some like the one shown above, that would be fine for 2WD if there's no exhaust cross-pipe. And I don't know if the Syncro skidplate needs to be modified. I don't have the vans to test this stuff on. My Syncro has a Smallcar bellhousing, that I re-tapped to 3/8NPT.
Aren't they beautiful with all the welding colors etc? If you want it polished, it's an acid etch and I'll do it if you add $20. I'm attempting to talk you out of it, but I will do it.
Oil check plug is accessible.
NOTE that the nozzle outlet (inside) is 1/2 inch above normal trans oil level, so the "level-van-level" when using this nozzle, will be 1/2 inch above the bottom of the oil filler bung hole. We are working on a method to "set the level" at bottom of the bunghole. It's not likely a problem to have "too much oil," and could be beneficial.
Syncroshop has been recommending overfill of transaxles for at least 10 years (for big engines) and has yet to hear of a single problem. Syncroshop says if you can't add a cooler, you should at least overfill the trans (and keep your lubricant clean too). I asked for" a qty" but he doesn't know because he fills from 5-gal pails. He said they simply jacked the front of the van as high as it will go on the floorjack with a 4x6 (3.5") on the floorjack under the Syncro crossmember. I will try to weasel a repeatable method out of him (but he's a busy guy) and try to translate to 2WD too.
Wish list: I think theSamba could benefit from temperature reports from a reliable transaxle temp guage at normal level, then again overfilled (same conditions), during summertime (hot) weather. Logic suggests that due to increased "stirring" the temp could be higher. But if there's increased lubrication, that could brings the temp down. Actual measurements and behavior would be great, if any members are interested. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16473 Location: Brookeville, MD
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Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Manual Transaxle oil cooler bung fittings (homebrew) |
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Sodo wrote: |
Wish list: I think theSamba could benefit from temperature reports from a reliable transaxle temp guage at normal level, then again overfilled (same conditions), during summertime (hot) weather. Logic suggests that due to increased "stirring" the temp could be higher. But if there's increased lubrication, that could brings the temp down. Actual measurements and behavior would be great, if any members are interested. |
Hmmm if I have some leftover Swepco 201 I could do this experiment.
We leave for Key West from Maryland in two weeks and I could drive down with the level normal and see what temps I get. I'd basically turn off the tranny cooler a couple times for about 30 minutes on the highway and see what temps the tranny lube gets and also monitor ambient temps. Then while camping by the water I could force (somehow, I'll figure it out) an extra quart or so of 201 in and repeat the experiment on the way back. It is 1300 miles each way so plenty of opportunities.... _________________ Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9517 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Manual Transaxle oil cooler bung fittings (homebrew) |
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dobryan wrote: |
Then while camping by the water I could force (somehow, I'll figure it out) an extra quart or so of 201 in and repeat the experiment on the way back. It is 1300 miles each way so plenty of opportunities.... |
That would rule, and it's soon too. Members wanna know before summer temps. You're pretty spoiled at home but probably the easiest on the road is to drive the two passenger side wheels up on a curb. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16473 Location: Brookeville, MD
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Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:38 am Post subject: Re: Manual Transaxle oil cooler bung fittings (homebrew) |
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So I looked and low and behold I do have some 201 left over from the last filling. I even have my gravity feed cap setup with it. (Basically a cap with a hole that lets a drain tube fit snuggly. I can place the 201 on the side of the bus way above the tranny and gravity flow the 201 into it.)
So how much do you want me to over fill it? I usually run it at the bottom of the fill hole when level. _________________ Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9517 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Manual Transaxle oil cooler bung fittings (homebrew) |
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Good deal Dave!
How about this. Analysis by photoshop. Passenger wheels about 6.5 inches higher than driver side. Do you have a "level" (tool - Spirit level, carpenters level) to check the level of the ground where you'll work (camp)?
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Manual Transaxle oil cooler bung fittings (homebrew) |
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Those look nice, Sodo .. sign me up .. _________________ aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16473 Location: Brookeville, MD
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rmcd Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2010 Posts: 1348 Location: PNW - its a dry rain.
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: Manual Transaxle oil cooler bung fittings (homebrew) |
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dobryan wrote: |
Heck, every road in Key West is
level. I can put the passenger wheels
on any curb and fill till overflowing.
Done. |
Hey Dobryan. Did you do some testing? Any impressions?
Thanks _________________ VW LT40 build. Like a Vanagon but 30% larger in every direction and 40% slower even in metric.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=749359&highlight= |
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rmcd Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2010 Posts: 1348 Location: PNW - its a dry rain.
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: Manual Transaxle oil cooler bung fittings (homebrew) |
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Sodo
Did you consider installing your fitting in the higher position to shoot over any oiling plates? I think I heard the higher location referenced as the 37mm position.
It almost seems that if I had an AA splash plate then your fitting turned 180 degrees would point the flow down into the gear, as well as, orient the cool oil supply line lower to clearance the bottom of the van and leaving the fill plug open. Granted maybe not as effective as your method, but may be the only option if one has a plate.
Thoughts? _________________ VW LT40 build. Like a Vanagon but 30% larger in every direction and 40% slower even in metric.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=749359&highlight= |
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