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jmillsj Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2017 Posts: 110 Location: Denver, CO
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:47 pm Post subject: Negative battery cable bolt snapped |
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I had good intention of replacing my battery cables along with the battery for my starter battery. What I thought would be the easiest part turned out to be a head-scratcher. I was trying to loosen the M8 bolt that fastens the battery cable to the battery box and the head snapped off.
You can still see the back of the bolt on the outside of the battery box in the passenger side wheel well.
And you can see the headless bolt from inside the box here.
I’m sure that I am not the first person to experience this. I don’t have room inside the box to drill out the bolt. There’s great access to the end of the bolt from inside the wheel well. I am tempted to try to turn the bolt from the back side in the wheel well, after soaking with penetrating oil, to see if I can get it to unscrew.
Any advice from anyone on this situation? That location is great for the battery cable, so I’d like to preserve it rather than find another way to connect the negative cable. I appreciate any ideas here. I do not have a welder, so my heat is limited, plus it’s pretty close to the gas tank.
Thanks in advance for nay ideas. _________________ 1985 Vanagon Westfalia EJ25
Vanagon owner since 1995 |
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LarryMart Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2022 Posts: 56
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped |
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I would also try to turn it out from the back side such that the broken end will stay in the battery box, so the broken head part doesn't mess up the threads. Failing that, I would easy out from the backside. |
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zerotofifty Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 1497
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped |
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penatrating oil, and double nut the flip side and see if you can run it out. if that fails ( dont break the other end!) a torch heat often will help break it loose. or simply drill a new hole and relocate it
Next time install with ample antisieze .
have fun _________________ Give peace a chance. No American war with Russia! |
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jmillsj Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2017 Posts: 110 Location: Denver, CO
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped |
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I looked up the double nut technique on YouTube and that looks like what I need. Thank you zerotofifty!
If this fails, I will search for alternate locations. _________________ 1985 Vanagon Westfalia EJ25
Vanagon owner since 1995 |
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danielheff Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2016 Posts: 134 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped |
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Since you can access from the backside, if you drill it, once the bit bites into the metal it will rotate the bolt in towards the battery box. _________________ '70 Squareback 1835cc
'85 Vanagon GL Camper, EJ22, Peloquin Diff, Burley rear disc brakes, SC big front brakes, Espar D2L, 250ah Lifepo4
'85.5 944 NA |
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PDXWesty Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006 Posts: 6235 Location: Portland OR
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped |
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It may take a day or so soaked in penetrating oil to dissolve the rust enough to turn it. Heat cycling with a torch and more penetrating oil will eventually do the trick. _________________ 89 Westy 2.1 Auto |
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fxr Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014 Posts: 2301 Location: Bay area CA
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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4717 Location: Bemidji, MN
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped |
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heat/fire is risky in that location due to the expansion tanks and gas tank with likely poor grommets. soak both sides with penetrating oil or WD40. grab it with the biggest Vise Grip you have and turn it out. if it breaks off, drill it out completely, tap it to a bigger size and Bob's Your Uncle.
you want to reuse that location due to the reinforcing plate that has been welded to the body. allows you to torque down the ground connection. _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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vanis13 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010 Posts: 3082 Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped |
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DanHoug wrote: |
grab it with the biggest Vise Grip you have and turn it out. |
BEFORE the ViceGrip which will screw up the threads, do the double nut thing _________________ 83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
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jmillsj Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2017 Posts: 110 Location: Denver, CO
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:07 am Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped |
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There’s not enough bolt for the double nut technique to work. I’m going to order some thin nuts to see if that works. I’d prefer that route first. My initial thought was to use vise grips, but I like the double nut technique best and it’s worth a shot. I agree this is the best spot. The reinforcing plate is worth attempting to reuse.
I’m going to give it another shot of penetrating oil and order the thin nuts today. Thankfully, I don’t drive this regularly.
Thank you all for the great input. I’ve owned this Vanagon since 1995, and I do less and less of the repairs myself anymore, so I’m getting rusty. Plus, I love my mechanic and hope he sticks around for a while. _________________ 1985 Vanagon Westfalia EJ25
Vanagon owner since 1995 |
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vanis13 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010 Posts: 3082 Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:12 am Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped |
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jmillsj wrote: |
Plus, I love my mechanic and hope he sticks around for a while. |
I hope, like a financial advisor, they are 20 years younger than you _________________ 83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4717 Location: Bemidji, MN
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped |
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vanis13 wrote: |
BEFORE the ViceGrip which will screw up the threads, do the double nut thing |
aaand you want to preserve the threads of a broken bolt why?!
i've never had the double nut thing hold tight enough to remove a broken bolt, they always slip. _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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jmillsj Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2017 Posts: 110 Location: Denver, CO
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:22 am Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped |
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vanis13 wrote: |
jmillsj wrote: |
Plus, I love my mechanic and hope he sticks around for a while. |
I hope, like a financial advisor, they are 20 years younger than you |
Sage assessment. It seems like everyone now is at least 20 years younger than me. _________________ 1985 Vanagon Westfalia EJ25
Vanagon owner since 1995 |
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Bulli Klinik Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2005 Posts: 2065 Location: Bulli Klinik, Colorado Springs
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped |
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I’d cut it flush to the battery box wall on the wheel well side and drill out the rest. Run a tap through and put another bolt in its place. _________________ I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs |
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SCM Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011 Posts: 3102 Location: Bozeman MT
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:40 am Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped |
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DanHoug wrote: |
vanis13 wrote: |
BEFORE the ViceGrip which will screw up the threads, do the double nut thing |
aaand you want to preserve the threads of a broken bolt why?!
i've never had the double nut thing hold tight enough to remove a broken bolt, they always slip. |
I he screws up the threads then there's no chance to use the double nut technique, reducing his options. I've had decent luck with jam nuts. _________________ '91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine |
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vanis13 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010 Posts: 3082 Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped |
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jmillsj wrote: |
... and order the thin nuts today. |
You can also use a grinder to thin down the nuts you have on hand. at least the inside one - just leave the flat/factory side to match up flat to the second nut which doesn't have to be ground down since it will just hang off the stud ...(as I write this, I wonder if a little irregularity between the nuts would actually help. just on one nut. If it's irregular or off-plane it may provide more binding force. Will try next time I'm in your situation)
re: slipping - sometimes I use two wrenches set up as a V which I can squeeze with my hand to apply two-nut tightening torque and then I move the hand/both nuts together as a unit. Sometimes that helps prevent slipping of the two nuts.
if that fails, go nuts with the vice grips
and if that fails, go more nuts with a "stud extractor" google for various versions. _________________ 83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3549 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:09 am Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped |
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jmillsj wrote: |
There’s not enough bolt for the double nut technique to work. I’m going to order some thin nuts to see if that works. I’d prefer that route first. My initial thought was to use vise grips, but I like the double nut technique best and it’s worth a shot. I agree this is the best spot. The reinforcing plate is worth attempting to reuse.
I’m going to give it another shot of penetrating oil and order the thin nuts today. Thankfully, I don’t drive this regularly.
Thank you all for the great input. I’ve owned this Vanagon since 1995, and I do less and less of the repairs myself anymore, so I’m getting rusty. Plus, I love my mechanic and hope he sticks around for a while. |
See if he, or another shop, has an Inductor Heater to heat up the broken bolt with no flame, so much less risk of being around the Fuel system. Not every shop wants to lay out the cash for these Heater Kits, but for things like this, they are great since you have the room to work with one.
This a cheaper one from Amazon than the usual Brand I see out in the Shops.
https://www.amazon.com/Ductor-Magnetic-Induction-A...nt=&hv _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto
Last edited by jlrftype7 on Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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zerotofifty Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 1497
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:10 am Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped |
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jmillsj wrote: |
There’s not enough bolt for the double nut technique to work. I’m going to order some thin nuts to see if that works. I’d prefer that route first. My initial thought was to use vise grips, but I like the double nut technique best and it’s worth a shot. I agree this is the best spot. The reinforcing plate is worth attempting to reuse.
I’m going to give it another shot of penetrating oil and order the thin nuts today. Thankfully, I don’t drive this regularly.
Thank you all for the great input. I’ve owned this Vanagon since 1995, and I do less and less of the repairs myself anymore, so I’m getting rusty. Plus, I love my mechanic and hope he sticks around for a while. |
Actually, it is not so much a reinforcement plate as it is a captive nut.
If you cant remove the busted bolt, drill a new hole and use a nut, bolt and some washers, with antisieze and been done with it. With a nut on the backside you will be able to torque it down good and plenty. Dont over think this. _________________ Give peace a chance. No American war with Russia! |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:18 am Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped |
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Quote: |
Heat cycling with a torch and more penetrating oil will eventually do the trick. |
Three cycles and the vice grip will turn it out with no fuss. _________________ .ssS! |
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ALIKA T3 Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009 Posts: 6316 Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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