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Negative battery cable bolt snapped
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jmillsj
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:47 pm    Post subject: Negative battery cable bolt snapped Reply with quote

I had good intention of replacing my battery cables along with the battery for my starter battery. What I thought would be the easiest part turned out to be a head-scratcher. I was trying to loosen the M8 bolt that fastens the battery cable to the battery box and the head snapped off.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You can still see the back of the bolt on the outside of the battery box in the passenger side wheel well.

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And you can see the headless bolt from inside the box here.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I’m sure that I am not the first person to experience this. I don’t have room inside the box to drill out the bolt. There’s great access to the end of the bolt from inside the wheel well. I am tempted to try to turn the bolt from the back side in the wheel well, after soaking with penetrating oil, to see if I can get it to unscrew.

Any advice from anyone on this situation? That location is great for the battery cable, so I’d like to preserve it rather than find another way to connect the negative cable. I appreciate any ideas here. I do not have a welder, so my heat is limited, plus it’s pretty close to the gas tank.

Thanks in advance for nay ideas.
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LarryMart
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped Reply with quote

I would also try to turn it out from the back side such that the broken end will stay in the battery box, so the broken head part doesn't mess up the threads. Failing that, I would easy out from the backside.
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zerotofifty
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped Reply with quote

penatrating oil, and double nut the flip side and see if you can run it out. if that fails ( dont break the other end!) a torch heat often will help break it loose. or simply drill a new hole and relocate it

Next time install with ample antisieze .


have fun
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jmillsj
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped Reply with quote

I looked up the double nut technique on YouTube and that looks like what I need. Thank you zerotofifty!

If this fails, I will search for alternate locations.
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danielheff
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped Reply with quote

Since you can access from the backside, if you drill it, once the bit bites into the metal it will rotate the bolt in towards the battery box.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped Reply with quote

It may take a day or so soaked in penetrating oil to dissolve the rust enough to turn it. Heat cycling with a torch and more penetrating oil will eventually do the trick.
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fxr
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped Reply with quote

A 90 degree drill attachment would come into its own here. Wink

e.g. https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-Modular-Right-Angle-Attachment-DWAMRA/314674579
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped Reply with quote

heat/fire is risky in that location due to the expansion tanks and gas tank with likely poor grommets. soak both sides with penetrating oil or WD40. grab it with the biggest Vise Grip you have and turn it out. if it breaks off, drill it out completely, tap it to a bigger size and Bob's Your Uncle.

you want to reuse that location due to the reinforcing plate that has been welded to the body. allows you to torque down the ground connection.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped Reply with quote

DanHoug wrote:
grab it with the biggest Vise Grip you have and turn it out.


BEFORE the ViceGrip which will screw up the threads, do the double nut thing
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jmillsj
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped Reply with quote

There’s not enough bolt for the double nut technique to work. I’m going to order some thin nuts to see if that works. I’d prefer that route first. My initial thought was to use vise grips, but I like the double nut technique best and it’s worth a shot. I agree this is the best spot. The reinforcing plate is worth attempting to reuse.

I’m going to give it another shot of penetrating oil and order the thin nuts today. Thankfully, I don’t drive this regularly.

Thank you all for the great input. I’ve owned this Vanagon since 1995, and I do less and less of the repairs myself anymore, so I’m getting rusty. Plus, I love my mechanic and hope he sticks around for a while.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped Reply with quote

jmillsj wrote:
Plus, I love my mechanic and hope he sticks around for a while.


I hope, like a financial advisor, they are 20 years younger than you Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped Reply with quote

vanis13 wrote:
BEFORE the ViceGrip which will screw up the threads, do the double nut thing


aaand you want to preserve the threads of a broken bolt why?!

i've never had the double nut thing hold tight enough to remove a broken bolt, they always slip.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:22 am    Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped Reply with quote

vanis13 wrote:
jmillsj wrote:
Plus, I love my mechanic and hope he sticks around for a while.


I hope, like a financial advisor, they are 20 years younger than you Laughing


Sage assessment. It seems like everyone now is at least 20 years younger than me. Shocked
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Bulli Klinik
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped Reply with quote

I’d cut it flush to the battery box wall on the wheel well side and drill out the rest. Run a tap through and put another bolt in its place.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:40 am    Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped Reply with quote

DanHoug wrote:
vanis13 wrote:
BEFORE the ViceGrip which will screw up the threads, do the double nut thing


aaand you want to preserve the threads of a broken bolt why?!

i've never had the double nut thing hold tight enough to remove a broken bolt, they always slip.


I he screws up the threads then there's no chance to use the double nut technique, reducing his options. I've had decent luck with jam nuts.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped Reply with quote

jmillsj wrote:
... and order the thin nuts today.


You can also use a grinder to thin down the nuts you have on hand. at least the inside one - just leave the flat/factory side to match up flat to the second nut which doesn't have to be ground down since it will just hang off the stud ...(as I write this, I wonder if a little irregularity between the nuts would actually help. just on one nut. If it's irregular or off-plane it may provide more binding force. Will try next time I'm in your situation)

re: slipping - sometimes I use two wrenches set up as a V which I can squeeze with my hand to apply two-nut tightening torque and then I move the hand/both nuts together as a unit. Sometimes that helps prevent slipping of the two nuts.

if that fails, go nuts with the vice grips

and if that fails, go more nuts with a "stud extractor" google for various versions.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped Reply with quote

jmillsj wrote:
There’s not enough bolt for the double nut technique to work. I’m going to order some thin nuts to see if that works. I’d prefer that route first. My initial thought was to use vise grips, but I like the double nut technique best and it’s worth a shot. I agree this is the best spot. The reinforcing plate is worth attempting to reuse.

I’m going to give it another shot of penetrating oil and order the thin nuts today. Thankfully, I don’t drive this regularly.

Thank you all for the great input. I’ve owned this Vanagon since 1995, and I do less and less of the repairs myself anymore, so I’m getting rusty. Plus, I love my mechanic and hope he sticks around for a while.
See if he, or another shop, has an Inductor Heater to heat up the broken bolt with no flame, so much less risk of being around the Fuel system. Not every shop wants to lay out the cash for these Heater Kits, but for things like this, they are great since you have the room to work with one.
This a cheaper one from Amazon than the usual Brand I see out in the Shops.

https://www.amazon.com/Ductor-Magnetic-Induction-A...nt=&hv
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Last edited by jlrftype7 on Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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zerotofifty
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped Reply with quote

jmillsj wrote:
There’s not enough bolt for the double nut technique to work. I’m going to order some thin nuts to see if that works. I’d prefer that route first. My initial thought was to use vise grips, but I like the double nut technique best and it’s worth a shot. I agree this is the best spot. The reinforcing plate is worth attempting to reuse.

I’m going to give it another shot of penetrating oil and order the thin nuts today. Thankfully, I don’t drive this regularly.

Thank you all for the great input. I’ve owned this Vanagon since 1995, and I do less and less of the repairs myself anymore, so I’m getting rusty. Plus, I love my mechanic and hope he sticks around for a while.


Actually, it is not so much a reinforcement plate as it is a captive nut.
If you cant remove the busted bolt, drill a new hole and use a nut, bolt and some washers, with antisieze and been done with it. With a nut on the backside you will be able to torque it down good and plenty. Dont over think this.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:18 am    Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped Reply with quote

Quote:
Heat cycling with a torch and more penetrating oil will eventually do the trick.


Three cycles and the vice grip will turn it out with no fuss.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 1:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Negative battery cable bolt snapped Reply with quote

If you can weld a nut on the outside, that'd be the answer for it all...
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