Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Aircooled Vanagon M-TDI AHU/1Z Swap
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
camerobias
Samba Member


Joined: April 24, 2014
Posts: 30
Location: USA
camerobias is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:56 pm    Post subject: Aircooled Vanagon M-TDI AHU/1Z Swap Reply with quote

This has been an epic project, that is still definitely ongoing. I've been chronically the whole process, and now that Part 3 is up, I can say that there has been some extreme drama.


Here's part 1: Pre-swap prep
http://www.followthewind.com/blog/2015/7/18/aircooled-vanagon-to-tdi-motorswap-part-1
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Part 2: The Install
http://www.followthewind.com/blog/2015/8/8/aircooled-vanagon-to-m-tdi-swap-part-2
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Well...part 3 is crazier than I could have ever thought. 3 tow trucks and nearly burning our van to the ground later, we still don't have our van. Here's the epic tale.

http://www.followthewind.com/blog/2015/8/22/aircooled-vanagon-to-m-tdi-swap-part-3-the-curse
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last edited by camerobias on Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:45 pm; edited 6 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
?Waldo?
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 8090
Location: Where?
?Waldo? is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice. I look forward to seeing more.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
RaraBlacksheep
Samba Member


Joined: May 09, 2014
Posts: 191
Location: Portland
RaraBlacksheep is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is pretty much what I had tossed around in my head for my '82...will really be looking forward to seeing the rest of this in detail! Thank you!

So one thing with the air cooled vans; aren't the transmissions geared well for diesels? I thought I've read that people get air cooled transmissions for their diesel swaps, somewhere from someone some time ago of course.
_________________
'82 Westy - Shark Weak
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tjet Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 2329
Location: Fullerton, CA
tjet is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Popcorn
_________________
Really rusty lifted '87 syncro tintop beater
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
danfromsyr
Samba Member


Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 12680
Location: Syracuse, NY
danfromsyr is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

great reading and a great adventure, I'm subscribed for more..

but a thought (hindsight now) is that if you are planning to drive an air cooled camper (loaded) in Mountains and back roads to consider a Diesel Transmission. they are geared significantly lower and will give you a better range of gears and power band options. especially compared to the high R&P of the air cooled trans, which can be a chore for my 1.8T powered van at times when you need a good low gear..

the Diesel trans bolts right into a aircooled (swap over the bellhousing & input shafts) it will create a top cruising speed of ~72mph at max (peak) rpms for highway but the 72hp is better than the stock diesels 48hp
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
camerobias
Samba Member


Joined: April 24, 2014
Posts: 30
Location: USA
camerobias is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaraBlacksheep wrote:
This is pretty much what I had tossed around in my head for my '82...will really be looking forward to seeing the rest of this in detail! Thank you!

So one thing with the air cooled vans; aren't the transmissions geared well for diesels? I thought I've read that people get air cooled transmissions for their diesel swaps, somewhere from someone some time ago of course.


The aircooled transmission is definitely a better choice if you don't want to regear, which I'm not until it dies of natural causes. Basically I'll be limited to 60-65mph highway cruising to keep my rpms down until I do regear. I won't hurt the engine to rev it faster, just gets loud and eats up mpg's.

I do have a friend with an ALH in his waterboxer without regearing but he's running 225/75-16 tires so that makes a 15% difference. With those tires I could run something close to 70mph at 3000rpm in my aircooled.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
danfromsyr
Samba Member


Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 12680
Location: Syracuse, NY
danfromsyr is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the air-cooled trans is great for the 1.6TD engine upgrades.
but not so much for the TDI (E-TDI or mTDI) swaps.

my post above is just conjecture re: a Diesel trans in an air-cooled powered rig expected to primarily climb mountainous terrain
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
camerobias
Samba Member


Joined: April 24, 2014
Posts: 30
Location: USA
camerobias is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:
great reading and a great adventure, I'm subscribed for more..

but a thought (hindsight now) is that if you are planning to drive an air cooled camper (loaded) in Mountains and back roads to consider a Diesel Transmission. they are geared significantly lower and will give you a better range of gears and power band options. especially compared to the high R&P of the air cooled trans, which can be a chore for my 1.8T powered van at times when you need a good low gear..

the Diesel trans bolts right into a aircooled (swap over the bellhousing & input shafts) it will create a top cruising speed of ~72mph at max (peak) rpms for highway but the 72hp is better than the stock diesels 48hp


The TDI motor I'm using will give me peak torque at 1900rpms compared to 3000rpms on my aircooled motor and stock the AHU/1Z TDI makes 90hp and 150ft/lbs of torque, so it should be very happy to pull me up hills at around 8mph in first gear. Not to mention the way they are building the motor for me should actually have greater than stock power, and having the turbo means I won't lose power at high altitude.

There had definitely been times I was in the mountains and wished I had the infamous syncro granny gear or a diesel trans but I really think with all the low in torque the new motor is going to offer, and the altitude sickness prevented by having a turbo, this is going to be the better option in the long run. Not to mention I'm just super excited for those increased diesel mpg's. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
danfromsyr
Samba Member


Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 12680
Location: Syracuse, NY
danfromsyr is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no doubt that the mTDI will be an improvement if nothing else over the air-cooled motor in the Mtns.

I ran my 80 van for a few years with just the 1.6TD on my air cooled trans..
what I always felt suffered the most was the tall reverse gear.. and you may still have some issues with a tall 1st but will torque power thru it.. steepness dependant.

I'm sure they're not even close to the same, but when I ran my 1.6TD with the larger K24 turbo (oem US jetta/quantum) I could still have boost issues up hills if I had to let off the throttle. when I upgraded to the smaller K14 turbo (US Eco-Diesel and europe TD vanagons) then it was good boost regardless of if I had to let off the throttle up hill. when approaching a slower vehicle(truck)

Best luck and enjoy powering on..

it's not so much the MPGs as it is the extended range per tank..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
camerobias
Samba Member


Joined: April 24, 2014
Posts: 30
Location: USA
camerobias is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:
no doubt that the mTDI will be an improvement if nothing else over the air-cooled motor in the Mtns.

I ran my 80 van for a few years with just the 1.6TD on my air cooled trans..
what I always felt suffered the most was the tall reverse gear.. and you may still have some issues with a tall 1st but will torque power thru it.. steepness dependant.

I'm sure they're not even close to the same, but when I ran my 1.6TD with the larger K24 turbo (oem US jetta/quantum) I could still have boost issues up hills if I had to let off the throttle. when I upgraded to the smaller K14 turbo (US Eco-Diesel and europe TD vanagons) then it was good boost regardless of if I had to let off the throttle up hill. when approaching a slower vehicle(truck)

Best luck and enjoy powering on..

it's not so much the MPGs as it is the extended range per tank..


Range per tank! Totally!! Ya I already know not everything is going to be perfect, but I'm still super excited about this whole thing. Shoot... if I had the money I'd be going crazy buying a junk syncro and converting this thing on the insane level. lol.

Should be picking up the motor today or tomorrow so phase two is coming soon!! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
conrad1468
Samba Member


Joined: December 20, 2003
Posts: 1015
Location: Jeannette, PA 15644
conrad1468 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy moly!! Good luck! I'll be following the progress.
_________________
Fresh Air VW Car Club
New Pittsburgh, PA Car Club. 100% free!!!
club website link
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FreshAirVWCarClub/info
thesamba link
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=363031
Official website
http://www.freshaircarclub.com/
Look us up on Facebook, too
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger Gallery Classifieds Feedback
?Waldo?
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 8090
Location: Where?
?Waldo? is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

27" tires would give you 3500 rpms @ 70mph. There's nothing wrong with that, IMO. If you go taller than that, you will want more than stock power.

Who's making the mTDI pump. Make sure it is someone with a good reputation. Make sure it isn't coming from Prothe/Hans.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
camerobias
Samba Member


Joined: April 24, 2014
Posts: 30
Location: USA
camerobias is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew A. Libby wrote:
27" tires would give you 3500 rpms @ 70mph. There's nothing wrong with that, IMO. If you go taller than that, you will want more than stock power.

Who's making the mTDI pump. Make sure it is someone with a good reputation. Make sure it isn't coming from Prothe/Hans.


Definitely not Hanz. Some old guy in Southern California working with Quality German Auto in Ontario. They just sent me the video of the dyno run of my motor with the new pump, thing was dong 175 ft/lbs of torque at 1900rpm.

And I also agree with the tires. I was planning on 215/75-15. I want to delete the rear springs and fabricate mounts for air suspention (semi-truck style) and use the Moog springs in the front. The front will go up 1.5'' and the back will be adjustable.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
AndyBees
Samba Member


Joined: January 31, 2008
Posts: 1708
Location: Southeast Kentucky
AndyBees is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Subscribed ----- I have a 1983 tin top sitting parked.... been considering a water cool conversion of some sort.
..............

Although not a mTDI, my 1984 tin top has an ALH bolted to a DK tranny from a 1980 Air-cool. It has zero issues with 1st gear. Also, I upgraded 3rd (from 1.23 to 1.14) and 4th gear (from .85 to .77). I have 205/75/15 tires. 68+ MPH in 4th gear equals 3000 RPMs.

More encouragement, I pulled a 1200 pound PopUp Camper to Alaska and back last summer (almost 11k miles in 33 days). The ALH engine (extremely similar to the AHU/iZ) had no problem pulling and hauling the load. We had at least another 300 or 400 lbs of stuff on board.
_________________
'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shadetreetim
Samba Member


Joined: January 10, 2011
Posts: 1994
Location: Riverside, California
shadetreetim is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome. Another cool build thread.
_________________
Tim Potts

Doing my best every time I drive it to dispel the myth these Vanagons have to be slow!


'89 Vanagon Bluestar/Country Homes 1.8T & .77 4th
'10 Wrangler 3.8 6SP Manual
'12 Ford E350
'12 Tiguan 2.0T 6SP Tiptronic - Lady Shadetree's
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
camerobias
Samba Member


Joined: April 24, 2014
Posts: 30
Location: USA
camerobias is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AndyBees wrote:
Subscribed ----- I have a 1983 tin top sitting parked.... been considering a water cool conversion of some sort.
..............

Although not a mTDI, my 1984 tin top has an ALH bolted to a DK tranny from a 1980 Air-cool. It has zero issues with 1st gear. Also, I upgraded 3rd (from 1.23 to 1.14) and 4th gear (from .85 to .77). I have 205/75/15 tires. 68+ MPH in 4th gear equals 3000 RPMs.

More encouragement, I pulled a 1200 pound PopUp Camper to Alaska and back last summer (almost 11k miles in 33 days). The ALH engine (extremely similar to the AHU/iZ) had no problem pulling and hauling the load. We had at least another 300 or 400 lbs of stuff on board.


Oh man you are adding to my enthusiasm with that tale! I just got the dyno video from the guy and it had 175ft/lbs of torque on the machine. Can't wait to be able to drive faster than 45mph in the wind! Lol
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vegandavid
Samba Member


Joined: November 13, 2010
Posts: 22
Location: San Diego, CA
vegandavid is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cameron, this is David that worked with you for a couple months last summer. Stoked to see you go TDI instead of Tiico.

I have one recommendation. On a TDI Vanagon, it's important that you add an EGT guage. You'd be way bummed if you blew up your new engine after all this work, especially climbing steep hills. The stock Turbo on an AHU (K03) seems to lend itself to high EGT's, so it's nice to take precautions.

David
_________________
1986 Vanagon Syncro TDI AHU
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
AndyBees
Samba Member


Joined: January 31, 2008
Posts: 1708
Location: Southeast Kentucky
AndyBees is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

camerobias wrote:
AndyBees wrote:
Subscribed ----- I have a 1983 tin top sitting parked.... been considering a water cool conversion of some sort.
..............

Although not a mTDI, my 1984 tin top has an ALH bolted to a DK tranny from a 1980 Air-cool. It has zero issues with 1st gear. Also, I upgraded 3rd (from 1.23 to 1.14) and 4th gear (from .85 to .77). I have 205/75/15 tires. 68+ MPH in 4th gear equals 3000 RPMs.

More encouragement, I pulled a 1200 pound PopUp Camper to Alaska and back last summer (almost 11k miles in 33 days). The ALH engine (extremely similar to the AHU/iZ) had no problem pulling and hauling the load. We had at least another 300 or 400 lbs of stuff on board.


Oh man you are adding to my enthusiasm with that tale! I just got the dyno video from the guy and it had 175ft/lbs of torque on the machine. Can't wait to be able to drive faster than 45mph in the wind! Lol


I do not want to hi-jack your Thread. So, after this post, I'll sit back and follow. As stated above, I am interested in doing a water cool install in my air cool Vanagon

Below is a link to the ALH install in the '84 Tin Top. At the moment it contains 86 pages of "narrative and pictures" in 1288 posts. It will take hours to sift through it all. There is some good information on the very first page.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=276798

Below is a link to the road trip to Alaska last summer. Performance status are at or near the last page of the Thread.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=417129

Lastly, below is a pic of the rig at a rest stop somewhere in Minnesota on the way to Alaska.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
camerobias
Samba Member


Joined: April 24, 2014
Posts: 30
Location: USA
camerobias is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AndyBees wrote:
Below is a link to the ALH install in the '84 Tin Top. At the moment it contains 86 pages of "narrative and pictures" in 1288 posts. It will take hours to sift through it all. There is some good information on the very first page.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=276798

Below is a link to the road trip to Alaska last summer. Performance status are at or near the last page of the Thread.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=417129

Lastly, below is a pic of the rig at a rest stop somewhere in Minnesota on the way to Alaska.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Haha!! I totally know that thread. Great write-up and one of the only thorough threads regarding TDI swaps on the net. You can find Suby stuff all day long but TDI info is definitely rare, which is one of the reasons I want to try documenting as best as I can.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
camerobias
Samba Member


Joined: April 24, 2014
Posts: 30
Location: USA
camerobias is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The swap is finally complete!!! Just passed a Semi-truck while driving up a steep hill doing 60mph!!! Woohooo! Only in a vanagon is that even bragging rights! I'm hoping I'll have the next post about the build in a week or so. Here's some preview photos!!


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB