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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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 Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: Is there a spec for milage to change Diff oil auto trans car |
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| blues90 wrote: |
When I changed the diff oil is was brown and about 6 oz over full since 1985.
Today I changer the auto trans fluid and replace the filter and the gasket with new ones. There was just a bit of grayish sludge on the pans bottom that was easy to wipe out with a paper towel.
I let it drain for a few hours with the pan off since I had some sort of hard thin trans pan gasket and all the pans bolt holes were a bit crowned so I had to fix that and replaced the lock washers since they were flat. The new pan gasket was cork so since I don't trust my old torque wrench I tightened then to 5 ft lb's instead of 7 . Did it 4 times and waited each time to let the gasket compress.
I tried everything I could think of to get the fluid to the proper level trying to read that dip stick and ended up filling it with 6 pints 8 oz . I filled 5 pints then checked it . it seemed below the bottom mark then added another pint to make it 6 pints then waited each time and added 8 oz more and it seemed between the marks or close to the top one but not over it as far as I could tell . Bentley says 6 pints 5 oz .
Man this working on the floor with jack stands is a killer these days .
If anyone has any ideas how to do this easier let me know . That trans dip stick is the worst thing to read. |
Stop....its,very hard ro overfill the differential section unless the previous owner filled it on a steep alope.
And the brown color is a WARNING......gear oil mixed with Automatic transmission fluid turns an ugly brown.
These two points taken together would tell me that you have ATF leaking past the seal into the differential. ....which will destroy it.
The seals between auto section and diffs in later VW and Audi cars......mid 80s on...with the same seal system and rluids....had a factory bulletin to change the seal at 7k or 7 years.
I have seen too many diifs deztroyed this way....and have toasted two myself.
You have been warned.......Ray |
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Multi69s
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: Is there a spec for milage to change Diff oil auto trans car |
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I know that you hate to do this, but I have lost a diff section also. I was a Type 1 man for many years, and the way their differentials wear out is completely different then the Type 3 auto. They will tend to start to hum a bit, but I have seen them keep going for years, just getting progressively louder. With the auto, it gives no warning, when it starts to make any noise, it is too late. As Ray said, save your self some grief. Its not that hard to change.
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Is there a spec for milage to change Diff oil auto trans car |
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| Multi69s wrote: |
| I know that you hate to do this, but I have lost a diff section also. I was a Type 1 man for many years, and the way their differentials wear out is completely different then the Type 3 auto. They will tend to start to hum a bit, but I have seen them keep going for years, just getting progressively louder. With the auto, it gives no warning, when it starts to make any noise, it is too late. As Ray said, save your self some grief. Its not that hard to change. |
Yes....perfectly well said.
The type 3.....meaning 003 automatic and the type 4....004 four speed manual.....are hypoid differentials.
This means that if you are looking at the ring gear from the side and thinking about it in clock position.......the pinion shaft enters the final drive case at about 7:40 on the ring gear position......crosses across the ring gear to put the pinion gear at the 3:20 position on the ring gear.........whereas on a four speed for type 1,2,3.......the pinion shaft enters the case at 9:00 and the pinion gear contacts the ring at 9:00 as well.
What this means is that the helix of the gear teeth on the 003 automatic are a significantly tighter helix......and greater contact surface......and are designed to run much, much more quiet.
That also means that this gear pattern really gives the EP .....or extreme pressure.....elements of the gear oil a workout.
Its not that ATF is a bad lubricant. In sub-zero artic weather......some differentials can actually run ATF in the diff case.......but the problem is that the MIXTURE of these two oils destroys some of the EP and much of the film strength characteristics of both oils.
There will be no serious warning.....a hum.....maybe a light whine.......and then BAM!......a tooth snaps off......which will almost always go between ring and pinion due to the position.... because it cant drop away......and that usually levers the pinion shaft away from the ring in a millisecond ......and shatters the cast iron gear carrier.
Its violent when it goes at highway speed.
Its really not hard at all to change the seals.....about an hout plus with the trans out......but the transmission does have to be out. Ray |
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Tram
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Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:35 am Post subject: Re: Is there a spec for milage to change Diff oil auto trans car |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Multi69s wrote: |
| I know that you hate to do this, but I have lost a diff section also. I was a Type 1 man for many years, and the way their differentials wear out is completely different then the Type 3 auto. They will tend to start to hum a bit, but I have seen them keep going for years, just getting progressively louder. With the auto, it gives no warning, when it starts to make any noise, it is too late. As Ray said, save your self some grief. Its not that hard to change. |
Yes....perfectly well said.
The type 3.....meaning 003 automatic and the type 4....004 four speed manual.....are hypoid differentials.
This means that if you are looking at the ring gear from the side and thinking about it in clock position.......the pinion shaft enters the final drive case at about 7:40 on the ring gear position......crosses across the ring gear to put the pinion gear at the 3:20 position on the ring gear.........whereas on a four speed for type 1,2,3.......the pinion shaft enters the case at 9:00 and the pinion gear contacts the ring at 9:00 as well.
What this means is that the helix of the gear teeth on the 003 automatic are a significantly tighter helix......and greater contact surface......and are designed to run much, much more quiet.
That also means that this gear pattern really gives the EP .....or extreme pressure.....elements of the gear oil a workout.
Its not that ATF is a bad lubricant. In sub-zero artic weather......some differentials can actually run ATF in the diff case.......but the problem is that the MIXTURE of these two oils destroys some of the EP and much of the film strength characteristics of both oils.
There will be no serious warning.....a hum.....maybe a light whine.......and then BAM!......a tooth snaps off......which will almost always go between ring and pinion due to the position.... because it cant drop away......and that usually levers the pinion shaft away from the ring in a millisecond ......and shatters the cast iron gear carrier.
Its violent when it goes at highway speed.
Its really not hard at all to change the seals.....about an hout plus with the trans out......but the transmission does have to be out. Ray |
What's the best source for the seal between trans and diff?
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Multi69s
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Is there a spec for milage to change Diff oil auto trans car |
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| Tram wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Multi69s wrote: |
| I know that you hate to do this, but I have lost a diff section also. I was a Type 1 man for many years, and the way their differentials wear out is completely different then the Type 3 auto. They will tend to start to hum a bit, but I have seen them keep going for years, just getting progressively louder. With the auto, it gives no warning, when it starts to make any noise, it is too late. As Ray said, save your self some grief. Its not that hard to change. |
Yes....perfectly well said.
The type 3.....meaning 003 automatic and the type 4....004 four speed manual.....are hypoid differentials.
This means that if you are looking at the ring gear from the side and thinking about it in clock position.......the pinion shaft enters the final drive case at about 7:40 on the ring gear position......crosses across the ring gear to put the pinion gear at the 3:20 position on the ring gear.........whereas on a four speed for type 1,2,3.......the pinion shaft enters the case at 9:00 and the pinion gear contacts the ring at 9:00 as well.
What this means is that the helix of the gear teeth on the 003 automatic are a significantly tighter helix......and greater contact surface......and are designed to run much, much more quiet.
That also means that this gear pattern really gives the EP .....or extreme pressure.....elements of the gear oil a workout.
Its not that ATF is a bad lubricant. In sub-zero artic weather......some differentials can actually run ATF in the diff case.......but the problem is that the MIXTURE of these two oils destroys some of the EP and much of the film strength characteristics of both oils.
There will be no serious warning.....a hum.....maybe a light whine.......and then BAM!......a tooth snaps off......which will almost always go between ring and pinion due to the position.... because it cant drop away......and that usually levers the pinion shaft away from the ring in a millisecond ......and shatters the cast iron gear carrier.
Its violent when it goes at highway speed.
Its really not hard at all to change the seals.....about an hout plus with the trans out......but the transmission does have to be out. Ray |
What's the best source for the seal between trans and diff? |
The last one I changed...years ago....I got at bulkpart.com
http://www.bulkpart.com/2/category/VW-003.html
http://www.bulkpart.com/2/category/VW-003kits.html
I think the basic overhaul kit is the seal kit...with all the seals. I would call and ask about the governor seal.
If memory serves there is a seal, possibly an o-ring and a paper gasket involved
Really if you are going to have it out...just get a full gasket kit. I would change the governor seal as well because fluid pressure can leak here as well into the diff. With the gasket kit you can do the pan gasket, output shaft seals and torque converter seal ...then adjust the bands and not worry about it again.
Ray |
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blues90
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Joined: March 14, 2009
Posts: 1912
Location: Hollywood ,CA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Is there a spec for milage to change Diff oil auto trans car |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| blues90 wrote: |
When I changed the diff oil is was brown and about 6 oz over full since 1985.
Today I changer the auto trans fluid and replace the filter and the gasket with new ones. There was just a bit of grayish sludge on the pans bottom that was easy to wipe out with a paper towel.
I let it drain for a few hours with the pan off since I had some sort of hard thin trans pan gasket and all the pans bolt holes were a bit crowned so I had to fix that and replaced the lock washers since they were flat. The new pan gasket was cork so since I don't trust my old torque wrench I tightened then to 5 ft lb's instead of 7 . Did it 4 times and waited each time to let the gasket compress.
I tried everything I could think of to get the fluid to the proper level trying to read that dip stick and ended up filling it with 6 pints 8 oz . I filled 5 pints then checked it . it seemed below the bottom mark then added another pint to make it 6 pints then waited each time and added 8 oz more and it seemed between the marks or close to the top one but not over it as far as I could tell . Bentley says 6 pints 5 oz .
Man this working on the floor with jack stands is a killer these days .
If anyone has any ideas how to do this easier let me know . That trans dip stick is the worst thing to read. |
Stop....its,very hard ro overfill the differential section unless the previous owner filled it on a steep alope.
And the brown color is a WARNING......gear oil mixed with Automatic transmission fluid turns an ugly brown.
These two points taken together would tell me that you have ATF leaking past the seal into the differential. ....which will destroy it.
The seals between auto section and diffs in later VW and Audi cars......mid 80s on...with the same seal system and rluids....had a factory bulletin to change the seal at 7k or 7 years.
I have seen too many diifs deztroyed this way....and have toasted two myself.
You have been warned.......Ray |
Yes I've read about this pinion seal. I recall removing the diff filler plug back in the mid 90's with the car level and saw some diff oil run out yet at the time I just put the filler plug back in .
I really have no idea what was done on this car before I bought it in 85 and have driven it quite a bit in hot weather on freeways and it always had a slight whine around 60 MPH with a load then went away as soon as I let off the gas. This has never changed. It's possible the diff was over filled. It's possible it's not the original diff . I can see the original engine does not have the sealing type case nuts so it much have been apart at some point. I also know the drive train has been out because the trans mount was missing the 2 nuts that secure the trans studs to the mount and the ground strap was not on the chassis.
I cannot find any info on old diff oil color . I've seen brown diff oil used in Ford diffs of the same type when it was new and saw ford diffs that had gear oil that was thick and had to be dug out in lumps.
The diff oil I drained out was not thin by any means.
In my mind this pinion seal if it was bad and leaking trans fluid since 85 when I bought this car by now the diff would be way over filled and junk by now. It also comes to mind if VW's and Audi's 80's and up all had this issue and needed this repair every 70 k or 7 years you might get it done once under the warranty and both makes would have lost sales due to the customer having to pay for this.
I asked Jim Adney about this seal and he said he never replaced one or heard of this issue.
I'm not saying it's not an issue or should not be done. Sure it's easy to do IF the drive train is out. I had mine out in 2002 to rebuild the trans and never heard about this seal being an issue , if I had I would have replaced it . Now I would need to pull the entire drive train just to get the trans off and replace this seal and to be on top take the diff apart and change the pinion seal between the trans and diff and also the governor seal.
On this site "when your daily driver is not enough" well this is my daily driver and only car. Has been since 91.
As I said I am not losing trans fluid , just a small amount due to a leak . In the last 30 k I added a pint of trans fluid.
In the Bentley auto trans section section 8 page 6 #2 maintenance . Table a #19 high atf consumption without external leak A leaking modulator B oil seals for pinion or governor or going out the vent. Also in one section it talks about the pinion seal . Section 8 auto trans page 31 top left note prior to jan 71 basically installing a new pinion seal with the lip toward the diff.
All I can really do is keep checking the trans fluid level and the diff oil . I'm well past the 7 year mark and not sure about the 70k on this diff.
I have the 72 diff as a spare all cleaned up and once I can gather these seals and the diff gasket as money allows then this buys some time. Yet for me to pull this entire thing out now is not possible . All the FI wiring and hope I don't create more issues let alone the time involved .
I had no access to the internet in 85 or 97 I got it in 2000 yet was not on VW forums until 2009 .
I don't really understand what causes the pinion seal to fail , as long as the lip is not dry or the spring missing why would it fail and if it's replaced why is there no seal now that's not better material . What does the seal due when it fails , does it fall apart.
I saw one photo on this site of the pinion seal in like before Jan 71 and the lip looked fine yet the outer part looked like someone beat it in and tore the outer part where it seals in the housing bore itself.
Here is a link to the photo's , looks to me like the seal was not installed proper to begin with.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5...169dce0319 |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Is there a spec for milage to change Diff oil auto trans car |
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Its already ovsrdue. I have seen too many failures of this seal with low miles and age alone.
As noted I have had two myself between 1981 and 1984 ....mileage and less than 10 years on the seal.
Same automatic section gearbox and same seals in zillions of watercooled vWs and VW saw the same failure trend and put out a factory bulletin for 7 years or 70k miles....whichever comes first. Just because Jim Adney has never seen this problem....means nothing in my experience. Some people get lucky.
But...hey...do what you want. These boxes grow on trees for cheap anyway.rught?.....When it destroys the differential.....you can just replace the seals then.....probably get a new diff at Cip1......yep....that'll work. Ray |
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Slow 1200
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Joined: July 02, 2004
Posts: 2106
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:11 am Post subject: Re: Is there a spec for milage to change Diff oil auto trans car |
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I would keep an eye on it, drain the diff oil after a while, see it there's ATF mixed in it, in my case it was very clear, when draining the diff first came the gear oil, then ATF came out after it
at that point the ring and pinion were already long gone  |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Is there a spec for milage to change Diff oil auto trans car |
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| Slow 1200 wrote: |
I would keep an eye on it, drain the diff oil after a while, see it there's ATF mixed in it, in my case it was very clear, when draining the diff first came the gear oil, then ATF came out after it
at that point the ring and pinion were already long gone |
You are lucky you got wome miles. ...and got it home.
In hot weather....and hot car environments. .....the difference is that the seal on the first one that went out on me could not have been leaking for more than about 3 weeks. I had done a strainer kit and gear oil change the month before.
It was prep for a 800 mile round trip drive. Car drive superbly. This was in Texas weather over 100F. Two days after i'm back in town and coming home from the state fair.....about 98° out.....65 miles per hour on I-40......and it instantly appears to downshift.....like trying to plant my nose on the dash. That was the diff locking up and rear tires chirpped.....last for about 1 second. ....and a BANG......and car rolls to a stop.
It shattered the differntial carrier.......and the load sheared the teeth from the spider gears....which is the only reason it was still rolling.
We found on dissection. ....the high speed and heat had whipped the ATF and gear oil into a non seperable cheese.....with virtuall no heavy load properties.
There was we figured....a little less than a quart of ATF missing from the auto section.
Back then it was no big deal. There were rows of type 3 and 4 in the junkyards. Grabbed another clean auotbox with a 30 day warranty for about, $100. That one lasted about three years.
It never dawned on me that the seal was prone to failure because the material was not perfect for both oil types.....combined. so....I never replaced any seals on the replacement trans. I was young and stupid (now I'm just old and stupid). The 2nd trans died from the same causes......but nowhere near as violently.
Finding the next trans.....I started looking at the transmissions in the three junkyards I frequented......closely. A few were found to alteady have fluid transfer issues. Other mechanics I spoke to mentioned that they were seeing the trend. Ray |
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blues90
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Joined: March 14, 2009
Posts: 1912
Location: Hollywood ,CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Is there a spec for milage to change Diff oil auto trans car |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
Its already ovsrdue. I have seen too many failures of this seal with low miles and age alone.
As noted I have had two myself between 1981 and 1984 ....mileage and less than 10 years on the seal.
Same automatic section gearbox and same seals in zillions of watercooled vWs and VW saw the same failure trend and put out a factory bulletin for 7 years or 70k miles....whichever comes first. Just because Jim Adney has never seen this problem....means nothing in my experience. Some people get lucky.
But...hey...do what you want. These boxes grow on trees for cheap anyway.rught?.....When it destroys the differential.....you can just replace the seals then.....probably get a new diff at Cip1......yep....that'll work. Ray |
Look I've already said I just can't afford to do this right now and I have a spare diff that's not junk that I will get the seals for when I can afford them and do that diff . Perhaps I have been lucky . I don't drive high speed freeway at all any more. I might drive 2 miles a week and did say I used to drive high speed freeway back in the 90's even once to Vegas in 118 degrees and drove a lot of freeway up until 2006 after all of this up until a few days ago I drained the diff and it was 6 oz over and I was not losing trans fluid. I also said in the mid 90's I checked the diff oil with the filler plug out car level and some poured out and as far as I know it could have been over filled before I got this car.
Most of you have other cars ,well I can't afford to go out and buy one and then take my time to do this work. The best I can do is mark the trans dip stick when cold and then check it to see if any trans fluid is being lost and if so check the diff .
What am I supposed to do , not drive at all filled with fear when I do that suddenly the diff is going to blow ?
Ray you say the diff and trans fluid was mixed and slow 1200 said first the diff fluid drained out the the trans fluid so it didn't mix in his case. |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Is there a spec for milage to change Diff oil auto trans car |
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| blues90 wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
Its already ovsrdue. I have seen too many failures of this seal with low miles and age alone.
As noted I have had two myself between 1981 and 1984 ....mileage and less than 10 years on the seal.
Same automatic section gearbox and same seals in zillions of watercooled vWs and VW saw the same failure trend and put out a factory bulletin for 7 years or 70k miles....whichever comes first. Just because Jim Adney has never seen this problem....means nothing in my experience. Some people get lucky.
But...hey...do what you want. These boxes grow on trees for cheap anyway.rught?.....When it destroys the differential.....you can just replace the seals then.....probably get a new diff at Cip1......yep....that'll work. Ray |
Look I've already said I just can't afford to do this right now and I have a spare diff that's not junk that I will get the seals for when I can afford them and do that diff . Perhaps I have been lucky . I don't drive high speed freeway at all any more. I might drive 2 miles a week and did say I used to drive high speed freeway back in the 90's even once to Vegas in 118 degrees and drove a lot of freeway up until 2006 after all of this up until a few days ago I drained the diff and it was 6 oz over and I was not losing trans fluid. I also said in the mid 90's I checked the diff oil with the filler plug out car level and some poured out and as far as I know it could have been over filled before I got this car.
Most of you have other cars ,well I can't afford to go out and buy one and then take my time to do this work. The best I can do is mark the trans dip stick when cold and then check it to see if any trans fluid is being lost and if so check the diff .
What am I supposed to do , not drive at all filled with fear when I do that suddenly the diff is going to blow ?
Ray you say the diff and trans fluid was mixed and slow 1200 said first the diff fluid drained out the the trans fluid so it didn't mix in his case. |
Could be temperature...could be time....could be anything chemically as to why one mixes quick and one slow. Eventually the oils will mix if introduced.
In fact....as slow 1200 noted....since it trashed his differential....they were already mixed enough that it did not have EP lubrication characteristics.
The fact that ATF poured out later was probably just more fresh ATF that pumped in on top...which likely points to the governor seal in his failure...less than the shaft seal. The governor seal oil feed is pressurized oil. The pinion shaft seal is not.
One is slow...one is fast.
Yes...I hear ya...time is an issue. I fully understand.
The problem with the reality of that that I want to make sure people understand is that this is not something you can sneak up on and see if its leaking over time.
If its leaking at all...with as little oil as there is in the differential....the contamination will be high enough to do damage.
You could easily not be leaking today...start leaking some tomorrow...and with 16 ounces or so of ATF in the final drive ....waste the differential on a 30 mile drive.
If it dies as violently as my first one at highway speed....it trashes the auto section too. Ray |
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blues90
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Joined: March 14, 2009
Posts: 1912
Location: Hollywood ,CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Is there a spec for milage to change Diff oil auto trans car |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| blues90 wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
Its already ovsrdue. I have seen too many failures of this seal with low miles and age alone.
As noted I have had two myself between 1981 and 1984 ....mileage and less than 10 years on the seal.
Same automatic section gearbox and same seals in zillions of watercooled vWs and VW saw the same failure trend and put out a factory bulletin for 7 years or 70k miles....whichever comes first. Just because Jim Adney has never seen this problem....means nothing in my experience. Some people get lucky.
But...hey...do what you want. These boxes grow on trees for cheap anyway.rught?.....When it destroys the differential.....you can just replace the seals then.....probably get a new diff at Cip1......yep....that'll work. Ray |
Look I've already said I just can't afford to do this right now and I have a spare diff that's not junk that I will get the seals for when I can afford them and do that diff . Perhaps I have been lucky . I don't drive high speed freeway at all any more. I might drive 2 miles a week and did say I used to drive high speed freeway back in the 90's even once to Vegas in 118 degrees and drove a lot of freeway up until 2006 after all of this up until a few days ago I drained the diff and it was 6 oz over and I was not losing trans fluid. I also said in the mid 90's I checked the diff oil with the filler plug out car level and some poured out and as far as I know it could have been over filled before I got this car.
Most of you have other cars ,well I can't afford to go out and buy one and then take my time to do this work. The best I can do is mark the trans dip stick when cold and then check it to see if any trans fluid is being lost and if so check the diff .
What am I supposed to do , not drive at all filled with fear when I do that suddenly the diff is going to blow ?
Ray you say the diff and trans fluid was mixed and slow 1200 said first the diff fluid drained out the the trans fluid so it didn't mix in his case. |
Could be temperature...could be time....could be anything chemically as to why one mixes quick and one slow. Eventually the oils will mix if introduced.
In fact....as slow 1200 noted....since it trashed his differential....they were already mixed enough that it did not have EP lubrication characteristics.
The fact that ATF poured out later was probably just more fresh ATF that pumped in on top...which likely points to the governor seal in his failure...less than the shaft seal. The governor seal oil feed is pressurized oil. The pinion shaft seal is not.
One is slow...one is fast.
Yes...I hear ya...time is an issue. I fully understand.
The problem with the reality of that that I want to make sure people understand is that this is not something you can sneak up on and see if its leaking over time.
If its leaking at all...with as little oil as there is in the differential....the contamination will be high enough to do damage.
You could easily not be leaking today...start leaking some tomorrow...and with 16 ounces or so of ATF in the final drive ....waste the differential on a 30 mile drive.
If it dies as violently as my first one at highway speed....it trashes the auto section too. Ray |
It's not just time , it's money . The seals may not be that much yet to me it is . Just the new filter and pan gasket and the trans fluid and diff oil where things I had to gather and that took 2 months. I'm not like most here I don't have a job and live on a fixed income with my wife. This car is the only one we have and I walk most places since they are close by.
This is not OH poor me it's just the reality that I point out . I'm 67 and my wife 70 . Last time I pulled the drive train was 2002 to rebuild the trans , 14 years goes by and this sort of a job is not so easy for me to do. I have no help to do this sort of work . Even if I had known in 2002 about these diff seals time wise I'd be due twice by now .
I am going to mark the trans dip stick when cold so I have a reference so I can check it each time before I drive and look at the pan under the car to see if I see any trans leaks. |
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raygreenwood
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Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Is there a spec for milage to change Diff oil auto trans car |
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Got it. So....you rebuilt the trans in 2002? A full rebuild with all new seals?
If you have not put much mileage on it......then you may be safer than most. As you said.....keep a very close eye on it. Ray |
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blues90
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Joined: March 14, 2009
Posts: 1912
Location: Hollywood ,CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: Is there a spec for milage to change Diff oil auto trans car |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
Got it. So....you rebuilt the trans in 2002? A full rebuild with all new seals?
If you have not put much mileage on it......then you may be safer than most. As you said.....keep a very close eye on it. Ray |
Yes I rebuilt just the auto trans but not the final drive section. I keep reading people calling the entire two sections the auto trans when it's the auto trans and the final drive.
I have 30k on the auto trans since 2002 that's why I just changed the fluid and new filter because about three months after I did the auto trans rebuild I parked the car at work and came out to go home and it would not move.
Had it towed home and found the park pawl cable inside the trans that has a ball end on the cable to secure it broke off and due to that the park pawl was engaged even though it still had forward and reverse it was locked in park.
I removed the valve body to get at the park cable deal and replaced it with a spare I had from the 72 trans and in doing so slipped with the screw driver installing the trans filter screen and poked a hole in it. This is why I got a new filter screen and pan gasket from Bulk Parts.
So I did rebuild the trans but did not replace any seals in the final drive section . Like I said I had no idea there was an issue with the pinion seal or governor seal . I did look at the pinion seal because I cleaned the area so the auto trans gasket and large O-ring would not have filth all over it . I didn't see any trans fluid in that area between the 2 unit's. |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Is there a spec for milage to change Diff oil auto trans car |
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Just wo we are clear....
The main seal we are speaking of is between the two sections. I will have to look in the book itw been so damn long.....but I believe that if you rebuilt the auto section you may have replaced the seal.
Let me look tonight.
Yes.....you are correct that many do not think about the two sections as seperate units. I have met many owners that not thinking about it have discarded entire transmissions because only one section was bad.....not realizing they just threw away valuable parts.
But there is a good reason why you should consider them a single unit....unlike a rear drive car with a seperate differential.
Actually two reasons......one is the pinion shaft seal we are speaking of. ..and 2....is the governor seal....which is even more dangerous because fluid is pumped through that section and the governor has a shaft seal that goes directly into the differential.
Ray |
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Tram
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Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Is there a spec for milage to change Diff oil auto trans car |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
Just wo we are clear....
The main seal we are speaking of is between the two sections. I will have to look in the book itw been so damn long.....but I believe that if you rebuilt the auto section you may have replaced the seal.
Let me look tonight.
Yes.....you are correct that many do not think about the two sections as seperate units. I have met many owners that not thinking about it have discarded entire transmissions because only one section was bad.....not realizing they just threw away valuable parts.
But there is a good reason why you should consider them a single unit....unlike a rear drive car with a seperate differential.
Actually two reasons......one is the pinion shaft seal we are speaking of. ..and 2....is the governor seal....which is even more dangerous because fluid is pumped through that section and the governor has a shaft seal that goes directly into the differential.
Ray |
The original VW kits for the AT side never had that seal that I am aware of, and none of the aftermarket kits I've ever used did, either. Stupid, but true.
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| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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blues90
Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2009
Posts: 1912
Location: Hollywood ,CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Is there a spec for milage to change Diff oil auto trans car |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
Just wo we are clear....
The main seal we are speaking of is between the two sections. I will have to look in the book itw been so damn long.....but I believe that if you rebuilt the auto section you may have replaced the seal.
Let me look tonight.
Yes.....you are correct that many do not think about the two sections as seperate units. I have met many owners that not thinking about it have discarded entire transmissions because only one section was bad.....not realizing they just threw away valuable parts.
But there is a good reason why you should consider them a single unit....unlike a rear drive car with a seperate differential.
Actually two reasons......one is the pinion shaft seal we are speaking of. ..and 2....is the governor seal....which is even more dangerous because fluid is pumped through that section and the governor has a shaft seal that goes directly into the differential.
Ray |
The auto trans gasket set I got for this section of this unit only had the auto trans seals including the pan gasket and the large O-ring . It had all internal piston seals and O-rings and different gaskets that fit on both sides of the auto trans bearing flange. I could not find the clutches or steel disc's at the time. I used the ones out of the 72 auto trans since they were new and the 72 case since it was clean . None of the diff seals came in the auto trans kit. The only reason I had to pull it out was I lost all forward gears and it turned out all that happened was the forward drive drum's large C clip popped out and the forward clutches had nothing to bear against . I had reverse. I just used the best parts from both to do the one. I used the 73 valve body since it's matched to the governor . |
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blues90
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Joined: March 14, 2009
Posts: 1912
Location: Hollywood ,CA
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blues90
Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2009
Posts: 1912
Location: Hollywood ,CA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Is there a spec for milage to change Diff oil auto trans car |
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I looked at the spare Diff I have on the case is VW 003 507 111A.
Looks like the convertor seal and pinion are VW numbers .
Does the case number mean anything? Also on each side of the bell housing where the diff mounts the the engine case there are 2 threaded studs one above the other . Do they have a function ? They are near the top of each side.
Some photo's
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