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2T2-Crash Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2014 Posts: 191 Location: Tacoma
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:15 am Post subject: Burning up condensers, need help. |
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67 beetle, 1600sp, Bosch alternator upgrade, .009 dizzy.
A few days ago all was fine in the beetle, when I parked it I accidentally let off the clutch like an idiot and stalled her hard.
Two days later I make my 45 min commute to school and notice she is surging on the highway in 3rd and 4th at high RPM, on the trip home she is gutless when giving it gas.
The next day I'm heading to school and she quit out on me. She would spin the starter and was giving gas but wouldn't turn over. After inspecting the points I noticed one side had a pit and the other a point. I replaced the points and condenser, my original condenser had a square plastic plug to go into the square hole in the dizzy, the replacement had a round one.
The bug ran like a champ for about three hours of intermittent use then gave me the finger again.
This morning I replace the condenser with another that had a round plug in because it was what I had on hand. She is sitting in the driveway now.
Are there differences in the electrical capacity of the round vs square plugged condensers and that is why the replacement failed or is there something else to look at as the culprit?
I verified my little jostling of the beetle didn't stick the float in the carb and I blew air through the gas tank vent tube at the suggestion of a local vw was before the condensers gave me the finger).
Any help would be greatly appreciated |
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EMPIImp69 Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2006 Posts: 3374 Location: Dirty Jersey
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Burning up condensers, need help. |
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Just eliminate both and put in a Pertronix ignitor. _________________ 1963 Ragtop Bug |
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HippyTom Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2013 Posts: 676 Location: Florida, West Pasco
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Burning up condensers, need help. |
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Buy Bosch condensers. Not all condensers are made the same. Break open a few and you'll see the difference. Bosch have been the most reliable for me. |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11740 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: Burning up condensers, need help. |
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Yes, they are different--and it's not just the shape of the plug.
Make sure you get the condenser that matches your distributor.
I went through the same crap when I first got my latest bug--after a 19-year hiatus.
There is a chart that reputable vendors have in their catalogs. Match the points and condenser to the distributor number. Then your points won't get pitted up.
Tim _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien
Last edited by Tim Donahoe on Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mukluk Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012 Posts: 7028 Location: Clyde, TX
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Burning up condensers, need help. |
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Has the car always eaten condensers the entire time you've owned it, or is this new behaviour? If new, did you perform any maintenance or replace any parts close to the time frame it started acting up? _________________ 1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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2T2-Crash Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2014 Posts: 191 Location: Tacoma
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Burning up condensers, need help. |
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mukluk wrote: |
Has the car always eaten condensers the entire time you've owned it, or is this new behaviour? If new, did you perform any maintenance or replace any parts close to the time frame it started acting up? |
I've had it for about two years now.
I had the engine rebuilt right off the bat because the cam was toast. about all I've really done to the electrical system is install a stereo and swap from a generator to an alternator after the the genny died.
I do have a cluster of gauges zip tied under the hood up front until I install my three guage mount under the dash (I made wood panels for the front of the dash. |
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mukluk Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012 Posts: 7028 Location: Clyde, TX
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Burning up condensers, need help. |
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So does that mean the burning condenser behaviour is new or not? Did it start shortly after swapping to the alternator or one of the other things you did or no? _________________ 1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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2T2-Crash Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2014 Posts: 191 Location: Tacoma
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: Burning up condensers, need help. |
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mukluk wrote: |
So does that mean the burning condenser behaviour is new or not? Did it start shortly after swapping to the alternator or one of the other things you did or no? |
It's something new, it was running fine with the Alt for a good two or three months. |
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runamoc Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006 Posts: 5601 Location: 37.5N 77.1W
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Burning up condensers, need help. |
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Quote: |
Yes, they are different--and it's not just the shape of the plug. |
What do you mean by different? The method of mounting? Electrically the condenser and the coil are a 'matched set'. The distributor contains the points, just a switch. _________________ Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 44 yrs - Plan B: '81 Rabbit Diesel LS Deluxe - Plan C: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs-
VW Wiring = It's just wires |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76940 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Burning up condensers, need help. |
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EMPIImp69 wrote: |
Just eliminate both and put in a Pertronix ignitor. |
What do you suggest when it fails?... and they do. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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runamoc Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006 Posts: 5601 Location: 37.5N 77.1W
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Burning up condensers, need help. |
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Quote: |
What do you suggest when it fails?... and they do. |
_________________ Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 44 yrs - Plan B: '81 Rabbit Diesel LS Deluxe - Plan C: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs-
VW Wiring = It's just wires |
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67jason Samba Member
Joined: August 28, 2005 Posts: 4741 Location: behind my back feet - Pittsburg CA
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Burning up condensers, need help. |
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Glenn wrote: |
EMPIImp69 wrote: |
Just eliminate both and put in a Pertronix ignitor. |
What do you suggest when it fails?... and they do. |
13 going on 14 years of daily driving, never a failure. points and condenser fail too you know. _________________ 67 bug x3
67 ghia
64 bug |
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2T2-Crash Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2014 Posts: 191 Location: Tacoma
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:50 am Post subject: Re: Burning up condensers, need help. |
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67jason wrote: |
Glenn wrote: |
EMPIImp69 wrote: |
Just eliminate both and put in a Pertronix ignitor. |
What do you suggest when it fails?... and they do. |
13 going on 14 years of daily driving, never a failure. points and condenser fail too you know. |
I'll probably pick one up and pray it doesn't get nuked too... Then I'd know I got another, more F*ed up problem, but I wouldn't know what it is. |
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HippyTom Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2013 Posts: 676 Location: Florida, West Pasco
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:58 am Post subject: Re: Burning up condensers, need help. |
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runamoc wrote: |
Quote: |
Yes, they are different--and it's not just the shape of the plug. |
What do you mean by different? The method of mounting? Electrically the condenser and the coil are a 'matched set'. The distributor contains the points, just a switch. |
Read this on the following link and it may help you understand the variability in quality of condensers. Like any other part, there are ones that are better and more reliable than others.
http://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/cap_failure/ |
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HippyTom Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2013 Posts: 676 Location: Florida, West Pasco
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Burning up condensers, need help. |
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Glenn wrote: |
EMPIImp69 wrote: |
Just eliminate both and put in a Pertronix ignitor. |
What do you suggest when it fails?... and they do. |
If you are going to drive an old VW, you have to carry a tool box/bag (or accept calling tow trucks). It's just a reality.
In my tool bag, I carry tools and an assortment of spare parts:
- Bosch points
- Bosch condenser
- Bosch rotor
- Comolete 009 Distributor with new points gapped and new condenser installed and ready to drop in.
- Fuel pump with gaskets, block, and rod.
- New Pertronix coil
- Coil Wire
- Plug Wires
- Spark Plugs
- Belt
- extra wire and terminals/alligator clips
- Fuses
- oil
- electrical tape
- duct tape
- a myriad of tools
I have 2 bugs. One with a 009 points+condenser and the other a SVDA with electronic ignition. Whichever one I drive I move the tool bag to. If the ei goes out, I just drop in my spare 009 and plug the vacuum hose with a golf tee (in the bag too). Static time to 7.5* BTDC with my test light (in tool bag) and roll. I've had 3 occasions over 15 years that a coil died without warning. A 5 minute roadside fix if you have the stuff on hand.
I'm going to start a "what's in your tool bag" thread. Lessons learned the hard way over the years. |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Burning up condensers, need help. |
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VW condenser values are all pretty much the same. Quality is another matter. My suggestion is find an NOS condenser. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76940 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Burning up condensers, need help. |
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tasb wrote: |
My suggestion is find an NOS condenser. |
NOS condensers can fail suddenly due to age.
While i'm using a 50 year old condenser I have seen them fail suddenly. I've sold thousands of Bosch 02 006 and 02 107 condensers with maybe a handful of early failures. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34021 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Burning up condensers, need help. |
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What coil do you have? |
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2T2-Crash Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2014 Posts: 191 Location: Tacoma
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Burning up condensers, need help. |
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KTPhil wrote: |
What coil do you have? |
Aside from "an old ass blue Bosch one" I can't give any extra info at the moment, I will be able to give more information in a couple of hours when I get home. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76940 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Burning up condensers, need help. |
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2T2-Crash wrote: |
KTPhil wrote: |
What coil do you have? |
Aside from "an old ass blue Bosch one" |
Actually Bosch made 5 different 12v "Blue" coils not counting all the aftermarket ones. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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