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dlb154
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2006
Posts: 359
Location: Reno, NV
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 Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) |
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| WLD*WSTY wrote: |
| dlb154 wrote: |
| I'm considering the attachment as referenced above (originally posted by fxr, reposted by Honeyvan84) but want to use the Recaro slider kit that Go Westy sells rather than the stock slider rails |
I just bought two of those on Amazon, $64.72 the pair shipped. They're called "NRG Universal Seat Base Sliders SBR-001" |
WLD*WSTY - Were you able to fab up a mounting procedure to use these tracks? I was able to get one done and hope to make some small refinements before making the other mount... Pretty straight forward.
Hoping to snap some pics during the fabrication of the 2nd mount and will post. Seat height looks/feels pretty stock. Forward/aft movement is pretty stock as well with a slight further back movement than stock.
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WLD*WSTY
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2009
Posts: 438
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) |
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| Quote: |
| WLD*WSTY - Were you able to fab up a mounting procedure to use these tracks? |
Not yet-I've got a rather large list of upgrades I'm working through, and the seats are near the end. Good luck with yours.
_________________
'82 SyncroWesty, the first ever conversion.'06 Subaru 2.5L |
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1985vanagontn
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2017
Posts: 11
Location: TN
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap (Town & Country 2nd Row) |
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| Freshdub wrote: |
Hey all, ive found so much useful info and been helped so many times I just wanted to try and give something back. I decided to document the proccess of putting some different seats into my van, hopefully it helps someone else out!
My top needs for new seats were:
Had to recline
Had to slide and swivel, just like the factory ones
Armrests!
and most importantly, they had to suit the van
Because my 84 has the lovely dark brown/tan interior, that last point made finding the right seats very difficult. The gray eurovan seats, while easy to install, would look totally wrong, and black would also look very out of place. I soon found out that the tan used in 84 is nothing like the tans used in vehicles today and was just way too yellow. After weeks of searching locally and online I finally found something I liked on eBay and took a leap of faith that the pictures accurately depicted the color.
Brown Leather, 2nd row seats, out of a 2015 Town and Country. The camera seems to be playing tricks in these pictures, in real life they really do fit the color scheme well and do not stand out anywhere near as bad as the camera makes them look...
There was a few things I liked about these seats; they are the “Stow-n-go” meaning they fold totally flat (more room for storage while camped!), and because they are the 2nd row they have the correct seat height. Most seats in cars now are way too tall from the seat base to the floor, and with the factory swivels, this puts our legs right up against the steering wheel. No Bueno. Rather, these seats had the exact same dimensions as the factory ones I was taking out and worked beautifully.
While this is showing how I installed these specific seats, the concept would remain the same for any that you may come across. However, after doing the install, I really really really reccommend finding these exact ones. Everything about them works perfectly with our vehicles, right down to the location of the slides/mounting points and the geometry of the seat as a whole. 2009-2015 Grand Caravans and Town and country’s are what you are looking for.
Here we go
Things you need
8’ of 3x1 rectangular steel tubing
factory seat swivels
New seats (takeoffs like these are perfect, never been sat in)
The slides on the new seats, with hardware
4 Grade 8 5/16x3/4” bolts
4 Grade 8 5/16x1” bolts
8 Grade 8 5/16” nuts
tools: Cut off wheel(s), stepped drill bits at least 9/16”, drill, 13mm open end wrench (ratcheting even better), welder (only 2 easy welds need to be done, if this is beyond you it will be very easy to find someone who can do it for you, dont let it deter you!) loctite, and plenty of PPE
Start on the passenger side, and cut the steel into (4) 2’ sections. This will give you plenty of adjustment and you can trim them more flush later. Remove the factory seats by pulling up the little “tooth” on the inboard side of the slide, and slide them forward until they fall out of the tracks. Put them off to the side.
Remove the 4 13mm bolts holding down the swivel plate, and lift up, then wiggle and maneuver until you get the lever through the vehicle base and place off to the side. take the swivel plate to your work area.
Curse yourself for not having built a bigger garage.
I just used 2 saw horses with my camping dog bed on top to protect the seats, and place the seats (folded up) upside down. Make sure you keep track of what is forwards, and ensure the slides on the new seat are in the same position (full foward, or full back)
here is a quick mock up of how everything is going to go together. Bolt the seats to the tubing, then bolt the tubing to the swivel bases.
mark the location of where you need your first holes. I actually screwed up here without knowing it. Rather than placing these holes in the center of the tubing, if I could do it again I would place them further inside (moving the bars slightly outwards) which would help my bolt location for a later step. You’ll see what I mean later.
the holes on one side only need to be large enough for the bolt to go through. The other side will need some “windows” on the forward 2 bolts/nuts and you can get a nut on the back nut from behind instead of needing a window to go from the bottom. My largest step on the stepped drill bit was a perfect fit for my 13mm socket to fit through, however it broke after one hole so I just cut some giant ugly square openings the rest of the way. but a 3/4 bit is perfect if you have higher quality tools than me. the rearmost bolt you can tighten using a 13mm open end wrench, and if you have a ratcheting one, it makes the proccess much faster.
bolt it all up, and test fit in the van. I reinstalled the swivel base and just laid the bars/seats across.
test the seat in as many ways as you can (remember if your slides are full forwards or back..) to make sure you have it right where you want it. I tested the swivels, the slides, the armrests, the seat belts, and made sure I could access the battery still. mark where the bars are in relation to the swivel plate. In my case, I liked the passenger side with the rearmost bolts being right above the edge of the swivel. take everything back out and setup in your work area. I cut the bars at the front and back now that I know exactly where everything will go, to a nicer fit.
start by clamping everything together, and get ready to drill your holes to attach the swivel plate to the bars. Because the bolts will be going upwards, I wanted the bolt heads to be as high up as possible to avoid hitting/catching on anything when swiveling. This is where I wish I had moved the bars outwards at the beginning so I could put the bolts in these perfect reccess spots.
instead I had to shift the base slightly over, tested everything again to make sure it didnt bother me sitting a fraction of an inch closer to the inside of the car, and drilled my holes there. The drivers side I adjusted this properly.
start with the front 2 holes and after drilling them, I test fit the whole setup again. install the swivel bases to the car, and drop the seats ontop. if you swivel the seat on a 45* angle you can easily insert the 1” bolts upwards and into a nut located on the inside of the tube. do this to both front bolts. again, ratcheting open end wrench saves a ton of time here.
make sure you are happy with the way everything moves, and remove (again!)
With the whole setup upside down again, bolt the swivel plate down on the front holes, and vice grip the back. Drill your final 2 holes through the swivel into the bar, in the reccessed spits ideally, then remove everything.
The 2 holes you just put in the bars need to be drilled out to 9/16”, and the nut will fit nice and snug in this hole.
Put the bolt in the nut, and use vice grips to hold perfectly flush while welding. Clean/grind everything up to be ready for welding and then weld the nut in, clean everything up after and paint your now finished bars black.
You are now ready to install for the final time. Use loctite on all male threads. Attach the bars to the seat base.
Attach the swivels back to the vehicle (i also added moly grease to all the tracks to get a smoother swivel) and test to make sure the nuts arent too tight. Use loctite here FOR SURE as the nuts dont take very much torque.
Now drop the seats ontop of the swivels and turn on a 45* angle. Attach your bolts/nuts on the front and just make them finger tight. Keep rotating and installing until all of your bolts are in. Final torque everything and make sure everything works. Then do your drivers seat.
The drivers is alot less fun as the rear left bolt doesnt have easy access because you cant swivel the seat all the way around (steering wheel) so you have to blindly get it going upwards from the battery box. Not fun but not that hard either. Bolt up, torque down.
Done!
Final Thoughts:
I love these seats. huge difference in comfort, and the drivers side I can either slide all the way back and stretch my legs, or if I move the seat forwards a ways, I can actually recline a decent amount before touching the stove. so much adjustment, and the arm rests are much much much nicer to have. longer drives will be much easier.
I mounted an aux fuse panel to the cabinet right above the aux battery box behind the drivers seat, this limited how far back I could put the drivers seat, so when I use the Stow-n-go feature, the drivers side wont fold perfectly flat. It hits the steering wheel just barely. doesnt bother me, but something to consider changing in your design. However, folding both seats flat and then installing the smaller front table overtop of the drivers seat gives a crazy amount of room to use for storing all that stuff while camping. increased area for meal prepping + plates and things on the table, really, I cant wait to get out camping to use all this new space!
USE YOUR PPE WHEN WORKING WITH METAL. that includes when “ive just got one more hole to drill.” take it from someone who has had to get a rusty metal sliver cut out of my eyeball, wear your safety gear and gloves. Dont rub your eyes/eyebrows or forehead until after youve removed your gloves and washed your hands. Keep a shop vac close by for quick cleanups after each hole or cut and youll keep your working area nice and neat.
enjoy! |
I found the same seats now time to install. Great write up thanks for all the info. There is a company that does wheelchair conversions and removes these seats from dodge caravans in brand new condition .
Cost me $330 total with shipping . I have seen others for closer to 400 or $500. I too was concerned about color . They look light beige in photos but pleasantly surprised when opened box to find a dark tan perfect for my brown/bronze paint color. |
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nepawesty
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2013
Posts: 108
Location: CO
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap (Town & Country 2nd Row) |
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| Dude... Lol. Just put in a call to the local wheelchair van conversion shops. I will let ya'll know how it works out. |
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Twan
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2015
Posts: 69
Location: Longmont, CO
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap (Town & Country 2nd Row) |
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| nepawesty wrote: |
| Dude... Lol. Just put in a call to the local wheelchair van conversion shops. I will let ya'll know how it works out. |
Please do. I just pulled the trigger on the German adapters and if I can get a pair of seats in the style I want for less than the $400 shipped on eBay locally, I'd rather do that. |
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12006
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap (Town & Country 2nd Row) |
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| Look for dejavueautowerks or ffantazija11 on ebay. They also have takeouts from chrysler pacifica with armrests that look comfy. |
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Twan
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2015
Posts: 69
Location: Longmont, CO
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap (Town & Country 2nd Row) |
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| syncrodoka wrote: |
| Look for dejavueautowerks or ffantazija11 on ebay. They also have takeouts from chrysler pacifica with armrests that look comfy. |
I've been watching a couple auctions from those two sellers. I don't want the microsuede inserts or white stitching, so I'm looking at about $400 shipped for the full leather with red stitching. I don't believe anyone has tried the Pacifica seats yet.
Got my payment request for the German rails, and all said and done it ended up being €212/$276 through PayPal. |
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12006
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap (Town & Country 2nd Row) |
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| The full leather with red stitching is an expensive choice as it only came as an option on the highest level van when I checked a few years ago. You might get lucky finding them listed by a seller listing them as a bucket seat. |
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Westaru
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap (Town & Country 2nd Row) |
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| syncrodoka wrote: |
| Look for dejavueautowerks or ffantazija11 on ebay. They also have takeouts from chrysler pacifica with armrests that look comfy. |
Be wary of ffantazija11 - I bought my seats from him and they were shipped poorly packed and arrived damaged (no protective packing, just 2 seats in a cardboard box). He repeatedly promised me new parts or new seats 'as soon as more come in', and when the filing deadline passed he stopped responding to my communication altogether. Definitely my fault for not demanding my money back immediately but I want to offer the caution to any others that might purchase through him.
_________________
1984 'Westaru' Vanagon Westfalia EJ22
@UtahWestfalia on IG
Last edited by Westaru on Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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candyman
Samba Trout Slayer
Joined: December 20, 2003
Posts: 2694
Location: Missoula MT
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap (Town & Country 2nd Row) |
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| the Utahn wrote: |
| syncrodoka wrote: |
| Look for dejavueautowerks or ffantazija11 on ebay. They also have takeouts from chrysler pacifica with armrests that look comfy. |
Be wary of ffantazija11 - I bought my seats from him and they were shipped poorly packed and arrived damaged (no protective packing, just 2 seats in a cardboard box). He repeatedly promised me new parts or new seats 'as soon as more come in', and as soon as the ebay filing deadline passed he stopped responding to my communication altogether. My fault on not demanding money back immediately, but I wanted to offer the caution to any others that might purchase through him. |
Thats who I bought mine from a couple years ago and they were shipped/packed beautifully. Maybe he has someone else doing his shipping now? |
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Westaru
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap (Town & Country 2nd Row) |
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| candyman wrote: |
| the Utahn wrote: |
| syncrodoka wrote: |
| Look for dejavueautowerks or ffantazija11 on ebay. They also have takeouts from chrysler pacifica with armrests that look comfy. |
Be wary of ffantazija11 - I bought my seats from him and they were shipped poorly packed and arrived damaged (no protective packing, just 2 seats in a cardboard box). He repeatedly promised me new parts or new seats 'as soon as more come in', and as soon as the ebay filing deadline passed he stopped responding to my communication altogether. My fault on not demanding money back immediately, but I wanted to offer the caution to any others that might purchase through him. |
Thats who I bought mine from a couple years ago and they were shipped/packed beautifully. Maybe he has someone else doing his shipping now? |
I found him from this forum so I know there are some happy customers here. My experience was not as positive. The tracks were severely bent, several studs broken completely off, plastic handles were broken, and the plastic side covers were shattered into small pieces.
I don't fault him for an error in shipping, but I do expect someone to stand behind their shipping and/or product when a few hundred dollars are spent.
_________________
1984 'Westaru' Vanagon Westfalia EJ22
@UtahWestfalia on IG |
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1985vanagontn
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2017
Posts: 11
Location: TN
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1985vanagontn
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2017
Posts: 11
Location: TN
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:09 pm Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap (Town & Country 2nd Row) |
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Got mine from Rollxvans just google think in Wisconsin. They post an all leather black pair on ebay but I messaged and asked if had other colors so I bought black ones and they agreed to ship the tan. $330
I called several times to speak to and left messages for parts dept person never returned calls but responded via ebay possibly not wanting to jeopardize e bay acct think something in ebay rules about conversing through their message system only on items for sale? |
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dlb154
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2006
Posts: 359
Location: Reno, NV
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap (Town & Country 2nd Row) |
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Completed my install using the same slide adapters Go Westy sells for the Recaro seats.
A big Thanks to - WLD*WSTY - for pointing out the slider rails were available elsewhere (read a page back in this thread).
I didn't see anyone fab an adapter to use these rails or to do it in the fashion that I did by removing the original seat sliders and using the mount holes to then attached cross members... This lowers everything and to be honest, I don't think this install added any height compared to the stock westy seats height on the swivel bases.
In hindsight, I could have just relocated the stock sliders to the outside of the seat using the same cross members I fab'd up. Would have worked out slightly different and would have needed to grind down some of the seat subframe to mount the cross members directly on the subframe. The stock sliders are thicker and would have add more to the finished seat height.
My version uses one 3/8" nut stand-offs from the subframe to the cross members...
Anyhow here are some pictures. If others are interested, I could provide more detail when I am less busy... I put a template drawing together for making the cross members.
Enjoy,
- Dave
Finished Install:
Crossmembers/rails to seat
Adapter mounted to swivel base - full back position
Adapter mounted to swivel base - full forward position
Seat mounted (folded down), full forward position - easily clears steering wheel
Seat mounted (folded down), full back position - easily clears steering wheel
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Twan
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2015
Posts: 69
Location: Longmont, CO
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:43 am Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap (Town & Country 2nd Row) |
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| I suppose if you're going to order the German rails, plan way ahead of time. Been a couple of weeks since he received my payment and I haven't heard a peep since. |
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dlb154
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2006
Posts: 359
Location: Reno, NV
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap (Town & Country 2nd Row) |
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| Making your own adapters is not difficult. Buying some other adapters will still require you to "engineer" how to mate the seat to the adapters and adapters to the vehicle. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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dlb154
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2006
Posts: 359
Location: Reno, NV
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap (Town & Country 2nd Row) |
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The sliders I purchased were $40 for the pair of seats (2 seats, 4 sliders).
The flat bar was $18 per seat = $36
Nuts, Bolts, Washers... probably another $20
Cost was about $100 all said and done (dremel bit for grinding holes in swivel base).
The Amazon purchase on the sliders was a mix up. The ad was for the pair but the image only showed enough goods for a single seat. So I ordered two ($80). After I received and installed, I went back to the ad and noticed it clearly stated there was enough for two seats. Contacted Amazon and they refunded $40 making my net price for the both seat slider kits $40. Read the fine print before you purchase (or after). |
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Twan
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2015
Posts: 69
Location: Longmont, CO
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap (Town & Country 2nd Row) |
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| djkeev wrote: |
| Twan wrote: |
| I suppose if you're going to order the German rails, plan way ahead of time. Been a couple of weeks since he received my payment and I haven't heard a peep since. |
Mine came pretty quick. DSL I think.
Dave |
Hmmm. Mine has been "pending" since Valentine's day and the only communication has been the PayPal payment request. Not that I even have the seats ordered yet... |
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yellowsub
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2015
Posts: 11
Location: CA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap (Town & Country 2nd Row) |
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A comment on the GW rails.... I purchased a single Recaro (black cloth, armrests) from GoWesty this past Friday, and it came with the adapter, for about $1600 or so. All that appeared to have been done on the adapter to make it "Vanagon-specifiic" was to drill four offset holes to use. The drilling on mine left much to be wanted (They didn't match the holes perfectly, were too small for the bolts supplied, shavings still attached from the drilling, etc.). After mucking around for an hour, I enlarged the holes slightly and cleaned them up (there was metal shavings still hanging onto the holes when I got them). After that install went smoothly. Totally helps to have swivels and turn it sideways!!! The "inserts" to screw the frame into the seat swivel are interesting - just long pieces that are tapped on one end, and when screwed down, pull the insert to the frame rails. Pretty slick.
I will say, the seats and adjuster are awesome - money well spent considering my old seats were totally beat (early-83, horse-hair fill plus maybe foam, ripped, stuffing coming out, you can see where "new" stuffing had been put in place and subsequently shredded over the years through the duct tape). The drive-ability of my van has gone up 100%. Instead of feeling I am going to fall out of the seat during quick/fast/tight corners, I feel like I am being "hugged" by my seat. The van suddenly seems to ride a lot smoother, as well! I am 5'7", 190#, 34" waist, and the seat "fits" my behind just right. If I was much larger, it would not be a good fit, in my opinion.
I now have to (or not, but it is "interesting" to get in/out without) adjust my seat each time I get in and out - my knees almost hit the steering wheel (I have the large(r) wheel - manual steering) when I get in or out. I barely reach down, lightly pull, and push back to get out of the van without getting my pants dirty (steering wheels are gross, no matter how much you clean them). Getting in, I always get adjusted and move the seat forward BEFORE putting my seatbelt on (I hate being choked getting comfortable).
The slider/adjustment bar is great - very easy to pull, solid locking mechanism (compared to before, it might be locked in, might take a week after any adjustment), and you don't really see the lever unless you look.
I have a early Vanagon seat if anyone wants to pick it up in Monterey, CA. Will last in "storage" about maybe 2 weeks before it gets disposed of in some way. Any ideas? I don't really want to ship it to anyone, unless they want to pay all shipping and packaging costs. Perhaps not much on the packaging side, if you don't care much about taking care of it while shpped (it will need re-upholstered no matter what). I could also deliver for 16mpg both ways. 
_________________
83 2.0 AC Vanagon, California emissions
“Patience is something you admire in the driver behind you, but not in one ahead.” - Bill McGlashen
“I couldn’t repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.” - Steven Wright |
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