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Front Seat Swap (Town & Country 2nd Row)
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pinetreeporsche
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) Reply with quote

[quote="djkeev"]
I was astounded at the quantity of traffic on I-95 northbound south of D.C.!
20 some Miles of bumper to bumper parking lot!
Must be Hurricane Irma related.

No, Sunday afternoons, northbound from Richmond, via Fredericksburg, is often very tough. I've been known to get off onto old US Rt 1 on occasions.
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Forthwithtx
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) Reply with quote

Honda CRX's were doing almost 50mpg back in the '80's. Didn't have to haul battery packs, so that probably explains it.

You will love the seats. Even if you can't see half the idiot lights anymore. Razz
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:16 am    Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) Reply with quote

Got my seats home and started playing with the mounting of them.

The seats have adjustment tracks but these tracks only allow 4 1/2" of movement.

One track slid fully forward, one fully slid to the rear.......

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


We like to ride with the passenger seat slid back away from the dash and hanging well over the battery.

To mount these seats in a rear manner to allow this will prevent access to the battery! They simply will not slide forward enough so the battery clears the seat for removal.

Maybe I can play with the tracks and modify them somehow?

The tracks are held on with three 13mm nuts and they were easy to remove.
The latching lever simply slips in the side of the track.

Two of the mounting points are shown in the photo...... (black circles are welded stud heads)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Track removed.......

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I first thought of remounting the tracks more forward to allow more rear slide. Upon examination this creates problems with the adjustment lever.

Can I modify the tracks to increase slide distance?
Yes, I can but there are not any latching notches that far back, though I could make some. ........

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


There are problems with the adjustment pin spring inside the tracks and there is a ball bearing slide detent on each end.......

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


After a really big think, I figure that modifying these will be a huge project and possibky compromise safety....... I ordered the adjustable tracks from Germany last night. They cost a few more dollars than Small Cars tracks but provide adjustment capability.

I really HATE to purchase items that I can make or midify existing bits to work, but in this instance, this is the best solution for me.
$211
Now to wait a week..........

https://www.vw-t3-bus-shop.de/sitzadapter-fur-sportscraft-armlehnensitz-s91s81

(Photos of the German seat tracks posted earlier in this thread)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Dave
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Gizmoman
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:59 am    Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) Reply with quote

Dave, a little late now that you've ordered the tracks but I used my old stock ones and attached the T&C slides to them. What I ended up with looks almost identical to the ones in your pics (thanks for not using Photobucket).
I suspect you can weld a bit or know someone who does. I was even able to keep the swivels. You may want to reconsider the order?
Just a thought.

Sorry I don't have better photos but here is what I do have>
I used some low profile strut found in Home Depot electrical dept. It has slots in it which happened to line up with the seats if I recall. I made large square washers that fit in the rail to spread the load.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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djkeev
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) Reply with quote

Gizmoman, thanks for those photos of the track you made.

Yeah, I probably could have fabbed something up.
Honestly, I'm amazingly busy right now!
Post season cleanup, winterization of pools and buildings, pre Winter repairs, etc.
Add to that, I'm trying to finish my living room which involves moving windows, resizing headers, redoing siding, new wiring, sheetrock, spackle, trim, painting, install hardwood floor and construct a masonry fireplace....... all before Christmas Day...... errr week.

And.....
I need to get the Van ready for a loooong journey.

The $200 right now for the German tracks is money well spent.

I'm Running out of time!

Dave
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Gizmoman
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) Reply with quote

Very well understood.
Being a hands on guy brings a raft of projects for sure. And I know you wouldn't have it any other way Wink
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) Reply with quote

It has been 8 days, I've begun following the mailman..... "do you have my seat tracks today? 🤗😂

Dave
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) Reply with quote

There's piles of these seats again for sale on ebay. Most are $245/set for leather. I saw some cloth pairs for $99.

It's a little hard searching ebay these days but here is what I put in.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sac...5573.m1684

These seats from a new Chrysler Pacifica look nice. But I don't see how you would attach tracks to them. Some are only $95/pr plus $85 fixed shipping. [edit] Reading some posts I guess these seats are not as comfortable as the T&C seats. So never mind.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-new-takeouts-2-BUCKET...mp;vxp=mtr


Last edited by davevickery on Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
It has been 8 days, I've begun following the mailman..... "do you have my seat tracks today? 🤗😂

Dave


We don't like being followed. Hope your tracks don't get "lost". Wink

...Just kidding!
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) Reply with quote

Looky!!!!

My mailman was tired of me following him everyday so he brought me my seat tracks!! 9 days from Germany DHL & USPS.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I knew that they were not left and right when I ordered them.
Looking at them this is an EASY modification!

The tracks are identical and perfectly built as centered units. The locking rod is drilled dead center front to rear.

It is a simple matter of removing the locking rod, flipping it to the other side and remounting it.

The rod is held in place by a welded "U" shaped piece of steel.
The spring tension system will work without modification if I reverse it.

A few pictures.......

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



The lever side......

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The non lever side.....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Close up of the welded "U" bracket the needs to be relocated.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Sadly we have plans for this weekend 😤

Next week!

Dave
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campism
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) Reply with quote

I can't believe you'd postpone this install just because of "plans." Are you going to let your van know about this?
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Twan
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) Reply with quote

So I'm planning on doing this upgrade regardless since my stock seats are absolutely blown out and haggard. My question is, does this actually gain you any leg room? Being 6' tall, I feel like I'm crammed up against the dash and just find the seating position to be incredibly uncomfortable even with the seat all the way back. I'm not concerned about storage compartment access with the seat in place, but I would like to be able to drive without feeling like I'm trying to touch my knees to my elbows while trying to be spread eagle.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:59 am    Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) Reply with quote

Using the German sourced adjustable track along with the Dodge stock sliders, yes, you can gain rear movement.
But
That movement is limited by what is behind your seat.

Dave
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Twan
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) Reply with quote

I have a 7 passenger tin top, so space behind the seat is no problem. I wonder if the Smallcar ones also offer that adjustability.

Edit: looks like probably not. Guess I'll spring for the German ones.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) Reply with quote

My understanding is that the small car units slide on and are fastened in place with a boot.
Hence my pursuing the German ones.

Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:

To mount these seats in a rear manner to allow this will prevent access to the battery! They simply will not slide forward enough so the battery clears the seat for removal.

I've never been able to clear the battery with the seat facing forward, turn it around and move the seat away and that's how you get in.


Twan wrote:
So I'm planning on doing this upgrade regardless since my stock seats are absolutely blown out and haggard. My question is, does this actually gain you any leg room? Being 6' tall, I feel like I'm crammed up against the dash and just find the seating position to be incredibly uncomfortable even with the seat all the way back. I'm not concerned about storage compartment access with the seat in place, but I would like to be able to drive without feeling like I'm trying to touch my knees to my elbows while trying to be spread eagle.

I'm 5-10 and I have to say my first drive with them was a little frustrating. They are taller then the 1984 armless seats I have causing me to bang my head once while getting in. The seats are longer and thicker at the front so the space between the steering wheel is smaller if I place the seat where I can reach the clutch, making getting in a little tighter. Having said that, putting the seat in the same position feels much the same but the seat is longer and I could feel the seat front fabric pulling at the back of my Carhartts. First impressions will fade quickly so I'll post back after another drive.

I've only driven in captain's chairs once a long time ago, so I don't know how these compare to them.


*************


I just finished installing these with the Smallcar adapters, they fasten in place with a set screw that goes into the hole at the front of the rail that holds the plastic slider, so it's not a set screw in the normal sense of the word, it goes into a hole and it doesn't just friction mount. The set screw will also eliminate any potential rattle in the rails like I used to have, however the Smallcar adapters are thicker than stock so wouldn't expect them to rattle.

They are quite a bit more comfortable, and I'll get used to them, my original seats were not comfortable at all anymore.

I can try to answer anyone's questions about the Smallcar adapters.

I opted to swap sides so there's no confusion about the seat belt receiver and I didn't care to pull the receiver either. The seat belt doesn't interfere with the recliner handle but if you have a short stubby old seat belt receiver, it's a little more difficult to get the seat belt in. I'm due for new seat belts, so it'll have the longer more flexible receiver. Longer seat belt receiver works better but you have to remember to stow it before you swivel seat of course. I can't tell if putting driver's side on driver's side would make a difference with the seat belt latching process.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



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Last edited by aiwetir on Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) Reply with quote

They look great!
Fabric? If so that's exactly what I have ready to install.

I too will be mounting the back adjuster lever in the center aisle rather than by the door.

Thanks for noting the details on how the small car track adapters mount. The fact that they bolt into that front hole and do NOT adjust confirms to me that my German track choice was correct for me and my needs.

BTW, my seats don't swivel, I've the pop top "weekender" version.

My German tracks also fit tightly in the body tracks. I had to persuade them with a rubber mallet. I think I'll be taking a Bastard file to them and thinning them just a smidgen to facilitate sliding action.

Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) Reply with quote

Yes, if you need more adjustability, the ones you got are probably better. I don't see much need for more than it has myself so I'm fine with what I have. They are all Fabric. And right now LKQ seems to have a lot of black fabric ones.

A couple of the tabs on my slider slots were bent down a little bit in a failed attempt to stop the seats from rattling. I had to take a screwdriver and pry them open a bit. You could try that instead of thinning out the metal. I'm not too sure which is better, making it thinner or taking it past its yield strength one time and hoping it somehow is strong enough in a crash...
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:57 am    Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) Reply with quote

This morning I thought that I'd shave my Adjustable German seat track thickness down so they slide more freely, they bind and tapping with a rubber mallet was required to get them on.

But.....

Before making irreversible changes, one measures ....... Right?

The metal the seat track is formed from including the paint coating is 0.094".

Hmmmm, I better measure the factory seat tracks..... 0.082"

That is a 0.012" difference, that isn't much folks. Human hair is about 0.02" or so thick. some is thicker, some is thinner but you get the idea. not much of a difference.

The metal gauge is probably NOT the problem!

Next, what about the stamping width?

Ah Ha!!!!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


German tracks are 1.806" wide at the base,
OG VW tracks are 1.656" wide at the base.

A difference of 0.150".
a credit card by and large is 0.030" thick.
That would be 5 credit cards wider.

Not a huge amount but I'll wager IF I remove 0.0375" from the edge of each track flange, they will slide nicely.
I'll start out removing less and work my way to smaller size with frequent test fitting along the way.

Dave
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: Front Seat Swap, (Town & Country 2nd Row) Reply with quote

I put a sanding disc on my angle grinder and went at it.

Being careful to keep things straight I took long sweeps sanding off metal.
Sparks!! Glorious rooster tails of sparks!!!!

I then took my long Mill Bastard file and smoothed everything out and ran it along the sanded edge taking off any uneven bits.

My final width is 1.78" - 1.79" along the run.

Slides in and out on the factory tracks smoothly and no rubber hammers required!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I also pried up the rear slide stops to get more rearward motion .......

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



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