Removed Distributor, Replaced Vaccum Canister Now No Spark

[Gauche1968]

OK, what did I screw up? I replaced the vacuum canister on the distributor--had to take the distributor out to get the screw on the back side in. Put the distributor back in the way it came out and now there is no spark. I didn't mess with the 10mm nut that rotates the distributor for timing. BTW, it was a huge ordeal to try to turn the 13mm nut that holds the distributor down with the vacuum canister in place and nearly impossible to put the vacuum canister on with the distributor in place. The AC bracket is a huge obstacle. What is the best way to do this?
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1984 Vanagon GL
1984 Vanagon Westy

[MarkWard]

You may not have seated the distributor completely. With the cap off have someone crank it. Verify the distributor shaft is turning. You did not specify the year. If you have electronic ignition, the plug on the side after all these years is poor at best. It is also possible to cut one of the wires in the distributor with the shutter wheel when you twist and pull the distributor to remove it. I am at a loss to explain the trouble you had removing the distributor. Report back what you find. Good luck
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[Gauche1968]

Hmm, Its a 1984 1.9L with a vacuum can distributor. Its very hard to reach the 13MM nut that holds the distributor down with the vacuum can in place on the distributor. It is possible to remove the vacuum can with the distributor in place to get to that nut, but much harder to re-install the vacuum can with the distributor in place. On my other van without AC, it would be much easier to do, but on the AC van, the giant compressor bracket is in the way.

Anyway, I took the cap off. The rotor was not in the place it was when I reinstalled the distributor initially. I pushed it with my finger and it advanced a little bit and then clicked and locked in place. I took the vacuum can off again, took the distributor out, re-seated it, screwed down the 13mm nut very well and then struggled to reinstall the tiny little screw on the back of the distributor that holds the vacuum can in place. I was able to get in there, but perhaps not as tightly as I would like. I put the rotor back on. The rotor now spun pretty much freely. I advanced it to the place it was originally (pointing at the #2 cylinder or #1 plug wire), reinstalled the cap and fired it up.

It kind of stumbled to life, but then ran with a scorching high idle (2300RPM). (The reason I decided to replace the vacuum can was a chronically low idle that did not respond well to throttle screw adjustment). After five minutes, the aux air regulator cut off and the idle dropped to about 1400-1600RPM, but was surging back and forth. I let it run for about ten more minutes.

Do you think I solved this? I am thinking the vacuum can was bad (I can sort hear the flopping sound of a busted membrane on the old one when I move the arm up and down) and now I am going to have to adjust idle down, as it was probably set too high to compensate? Its idling like it has a lot of air getting in somewhere or really advanced timing.

Thanks for the help!
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1984 Vanagon GL
1984 Vanagon Westy

[MarkWard]

I always test my distributor vacumn dashpots with a hand held vacumn pump and gauge. I check that they hold vacumn and watch the engine timing with a timing light. Without a light and pump, you can suck on the dashpot and it should pull a vacumn and there should be mechanical movement of the arm.

It sounds to me at this point you need to check the ignition timing. Also make sure you did not knock off any other hoses or wires accidentally. Glad you got it running. Take a mirror and verify the distributor is fully seated against the case. I usually remove the distributor by loosening the clamp, leaving the bracket behind. I always recheck timing when I have the distributor out.
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[Gauche1968]

OK, went back out and fired up. Still had the high/surging idle. I let it get warm, shut it off, connected the idle stabilizer plugs together, started it back up and low and behold the idle speed was responding to the throttle body screw adjustment! I was able to get the idle down to the 850RPM range. Thinking I was good, I shut if off and made lunch.

However, went back out, started it up and now the idle sucked. It was way too low. Let it get warm again. Connected idle stabilizer plugs together again, and checked timing with timing light. It appeared to be way off. I adjusted the idle speed to around 850RPM with the throttle body screw (Idle speed was still responding to this adjustment, which I took as a good sign), and then attempted to adjust timing. I had to move the distributor pretty far clockwise to get the V notch to line up with the engine case split mark. I then readjusted idle and shut it down.

Its running pretty well, but I am worried about the timing. The distributor is sitting pretty far clockwise (judging by angle of vacuum can) compared to the other van. With the idle stabilizer plugs connected, the timing mark dances a little bit.
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1984 Vanagon GL
1984 Vanagon Westy

[Gauche1968]

A couple of timing questions: When timing at idle, should the vacuum can hoses be connected? Second to that, if the can was bad and timed before with a bad can would that explain why the timing would now be off with a new vacuum can?
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1984 Vanagon GL
1984 Vanagon Westy

[Wildthings]

Set your timing to 28° BTDC @ 3500+ rpms with both hoses removed and plugged. This will work whether the retard can is good or bad.

There is no way to time an engine well if the centrifugal advance is shot.

The idle stabilizer needs to be bypasses when setting the timing.

[MarkWard]

On an engine this old, while the distributor only fits one way in the case, someone could have installed the distributor drive in the wrong position. That could account for why the distributor looks like it is in a funky location. Assuming all else is well, you have to trust your timing light.

You probably don't want to pull the distributor, but if you are so inclined to check the distributor drive position to rule that out, set the engine at TDC for number 1 and remove the distributor. Look in the hole with a flashlight. The Bentley manual should have a picture of the orientation of the slot in the drive compared to the case. The slot is slightly offset to one side.

Here is the catch. There are shims under the drive and trying to reposition the drive with the engine assembled could turn into a can of worms. It is up to you how to proceed.
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[Gauche1968]

[Wildthings]

[Gauche1968]

Is the vacuum can arm supposed to be attached to something internal on the distributor with an e-clip? There was no clip there when removed.
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1984 Vanagon GL
1984 Vanagon Westy

[Gauche1968]

I took the distributor apart, because I just wasn't sure the vacuum can arm was connected to the hall unit correctly. It appears there is a peg on the bottom of the hall unit that is supposed to be inserted into the hole on the vacuum can arm? Of course, it is next to impossible to see if the arm is actually sitting around the peg with it installed. I attached hoses to the vacuum can and sucked on them and saw some movement of the hall unit. I also connected a Mighty Vac to the vacuum unit, pumped it up and watched the gauge. The retard side held vacuum; however, the advance side slowly lost vacuum over the course of a few minutes. I tried this on both the old and the new vacuum can and they both did this, so I assume this is how it is supposed to work?

I will reinstall the distributor and time to Wildthings specs tomorrow and see how it runs.....
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1984 Vanagon GL
1984 Vanagon Westy

[Gauche1968]

Well, heck of a time reinstalling the distributor with a new O-ring. I had to take a block of wood, place it on the rim of the distributor and bang it in with a soft hammer.

I got it timed to Widthings specs (I think). The angle of the vacuum can matches the other van more closely now. However, it is not lining up with the 5 degrees ATDC mark at idle. That mark is now slightly to the right of the split in the case at idle. Also, the marks do dance slightly at idle, but I will attribute that to the fact that no matter what I do, I cannot get this thing to idle steadily. At idle, RPMs fluctuate between about 800 and 1000. Would this explain a slightly dancing timing mark at idle?

I still need to road test it a bit to see how it performs, but at the very least it runs again.
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1984 Vanagon GL
1984 Vanagon Westy

[MarkWard]

I would refer you to 28.33 28.34 and 28.35 in the Bentley manual. It describes how to adjust timing and how to check both centrifugal and vacuum advance curves as well. Without bypassing the idle stabilizer, the timing will bounce all over the place as it attempts to maintain proper idle speed, by advancing and retarding the ignition timing in small increments.
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[Gauche1968]