no clutch pedal pressure, smallcar subaru conversion

[rfoubi]

Hey all.

Ive had an intermittent low grabbing clutch for a little while, it seemed to be sporadic, and started after a cold snap. eventually the clutch stopped working altogether. pedal goes straight to floor, no resistance. brake/clutch fluid reservoir low, topped it up, managed to pump a bit of clutch pedal to get slightly to work, now lost fluid again and clutch limp.

I can shift gears with the engine off, and then roll start in first or reverse. no obvious leaks anywhere, but to be honest i had this problem on a backroad a month ago, coasted into my driveway, and then left it. So i bought a new master and slave and went to work tonight. First off, i realized that i dont have a slave cylinder? I have a smallcar suby conversion which i assume has a smallcar bellhousing. The hydraulic hose simply plugs into a "fitting" that is attached by a circlip. this fitting seems a little bit loose but i cant see any obvious leak. tho it could have dried up by now. So is there just no slave cylinder at all in this type of swap?

Of course, i decided to skip that for a while, and went to go swap the master since I was stumped in the slave department. Of course, the new one i bought from gowesty had a broken plastic nipple when it came out of the box. And i didnt notice it until right now. damn. So i cant even do that right now.

Ive never worked on a clutch before, and basically am just wondering if the smallcar housing does not have a slave, what does it have? or could it be something gone bad within the housing itself (sounds hard/expensive). Or should I just get a new master, replace that, bleed the system, and see if the problem goes away? thanks so much everyone and sorry for my ignorance

[rfoubi]

Not my photo, but i see this came up when I searched. I assume that if this bad boy is the problem, it is buried deep, and I would need to pull the trans?

[goffoz]

Yeah this is a know issue,Sorry its now your problem.
I dumped my smallcar kit ASAP when I saw the product.
Some very creative people on this forum have improved the product
I'm posting this to keep you at the top.
I did a quick SC search and came up with nothing
There a threads about this issue, it can be resolved
be happy

[Sodo]

No fluid dripping anywhere? I would say three things

1) You have air in the system and just need to bleed it. There are several ways to bleed the systm, depending on what tools you have.

You should try this first, because if that's it you don't need to buy parts.

2) Master cylinder failure, needs replacment.

3) Clutch pedal pivot hole is worn out. Wiggle on your pedal, with your hand, does it have a lot of "slop" and seem like one of the pivots is very loose? If yes, it can be repaired by removing and welding. Since you have a smallcar bellhousing you should replace your pedal with a Fred Smallcar mod'd pedal anyway. Or send a PM to samba member "ejimmi", he had a Fred-mod pedal for sale (march6, 2016).

The smallcar bellhousing problem Goffoz refers to (pedal over-driving the slave-cylinder) could be of interest to you but I don't think it's the problem. If your slave was over-driven it would have belched fluid which would have be dripping out the bellhousing. I have never had trouble with my smallcar bellhousing or throwout. But I did limit my clutch pedal recently. I will do the Fred-mod to my clutch pedal someday.
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[syncrodoka]

[Skidub]

I have a Small Car Subi conversion on my Syncro and I have to say it has really performed awesome and whenever I have questions or need help Owner Brian Steel at Small Car is quick to respond with answers and help.

That being said, I recently had this same question myself. The Small Car kit replaces the VW bell housing with their own and eliminates the conventional clutch slave cylinder on the outside of the case along with the VW rod and release bearing inside the case.

They use an integrated slave / release mechanism as shown in the second post.

I have posted a picture of the fitting you mention in the original post below. It is the aluminum fitting on the bell housing and you will see it has a bleeder screw at the top.

Remember that if you replace your clutch master cylinder you will want to remove the rubber boot and reuse the plastic fitting that should be on your clevis pin rod that inserts into the master cylinder.

I agree, try bleeding the clutch system. No fun dropping everything to get inside the bell housing.
_________________
86 Syncro GL Tin Top
Subaru 2.5L Swap
Rblt Transaxle w/ R Locker + Decoupler

[rfoubi]

So, I replaced the master cylinder, flushed all the brake fluid, bled all 4 brakes, bled the master cylinder, and then went to bleed the bleed screw at the trans. Air bubbles kept popping up, fluid level was going down, but no bubbles in my bleed jar. then i see brake fluid dripping out of the bellhousing. god damn it! So it must be the piece i posted a photo of, that is leaking inside the bellhousing. Huge bummer. This is gonna get expensive/hard. Slave on the original system would have been so easy to replace, now I gotta bust into the bellhousing.

I guess my questions are now:

How hard is this? Should i try and tackle it myself? OR take it to a pro?
What is that piece called (See second post). Where can I get one?
What is this mod you guys speak of?
If i (or shop) do pull the bellhousing, what else should i look for/replace while I am in there?

Thanks so much

Robin

[jimf909]

Not sure if there's any assistance in these 9 pages...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=631053&highlight=
_________________
- Jim

[syncrodoka]

You need to drop the engine or tranny and replace the o-ring between the clutch slave cylinder and/or the clutch slave cylinder(item pictured in your second post). It is a straightforward process just a bunch of steps to get it done.

[furrylittleotter]

Hey, sorry you are having trouble. haven't seen you post before so not sure where you are at in terms of conversion and ownership, but your throwout bearing is obviously knackered.

This is the point when you post that the part failed and equal numbers of people tell you the company that sells it is fantastic and the products are fantastic, and then you have people like me that tell you the product was poorly engineered garbage, some of the parts they sold me couldn't possibly work right and they were completely useless for help once they had my money.



After 3 or 4 of those throwout bearings, I finally removed all their garbage and threw it in the bin.

Someone has already shared a thread where the person ended up grinding down their clutch disc to make it work.

here is another thread about the fun this setup leads to (note the parts about the company knowing full well the throwout bearing gets over extended, ruining it, and first they suggested leaving air in the system, and then came up with a pedal travelling limiting "FIX" which they of course told no one about, even me after repeatedly contacting them about that very same problem).

Granted, that thread highlights the exact problem I was having but I do talk about the overextension issue as well so that applies to you. That and their complete refusal to help me or stand behind their product in any way.

Yea, great guys over there. REEEEAL Classy.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=600777&highlight=

Neil2

[vanagon1991]

rfoubi...agree that it is not all that hard to do...more time consuming than anything...and you'll know your van very well by the time you're done.

And if you do this...consider doing a great job of cleaning/upgrading whatever.

If you do simply replace that part, make sure you have that spacer installed in master clutch cylinder, and or get Fred's mod spoke of earlier.

I tried to contact Fred to get one but no reply.

Are you SURE fluid was coming out of your bell housing and it was not overspray from bleeding??? Why would it start leaking/dripping now?

The small aluminum bleeder connection does seem "loose" in the bell housing but as far as I can tell is normal. I did this SC install on my vehicle.

Also, take a close look at hydraulic line just below your master cylinder. Pump the clutch slow and watch for bubble(s) that get trapped in the high point of the line there.

If you bleed and bleed and cant get rid of those you may have bad clutch cylinder and your just pumping more air in as your bleeding.

Just some thoughts....
_________________
1991 Tornado Red Vanagon Carat
(2003 Subaru 2.5 conversion/Smallcar kit)

[rfoubi]

[rfoubi]

Update:

So i bit the bullet and pulled the trans/bellhousing. New all metal throwout/slave (the recommended one) , drained and refilled transmission fluid, new smallcar clutch (stage 2- the red one) with disc and pressure plate), reinstalled the trans, bolted everything back together.

So i still cant get the clutch to release. It seems like i can get the clutch to bleed, get rid of all the bubbles (either with a helper, or with the motive power bleeder). But then when i go to start the van and disengage the clutch, still no dice. I have been messing with the master cylinder pushrod jam nut to get the recommended amount of free play, and each time i rebleed, there are some bubbles right off the bat. Cant tell if they are from the small hose that i use from the bleed nipple to my jar or fluid, or if it is from in the system.

I did bench bleed the slave/throwout, so that should have been good, though i wonder if air has gotten into there.

Basically again, trans shifts fine with engine off, engine on i step on the clutch and it doesnt feel super limp, but also not stiff, and even when pushed to the floor, there is no release of the clutch (gears grind and wont go in).

Any ideas? could my brand new master or slave be bad? neither is leaking at all. Or is it likely a small air leak somewhere that sucks air in? Should I redo all the line? Any reason to use metal or could I just do plastic the whole way?

OR just keep trying to bleed? I hear people have success back bleeding from the slave to the reservoir? The rear of my van is up on ramps.... is that good or bad?

so stoked to be able to do the trans myself now, and I have learned a shit ton about the van in the process. However, i am still no closer to having a running vehicle, and its starting to get frustrating! Help!

[Sodo]

>>>>>OR just keep trying to bleed? I hear people have success back bleeding from the slave to the reservoir? The rear of my van is up on ramps.... is that good or bad?

Yes keep bleeding, grasshopper you will find the air of your ways. I have the new red pressure plate too. My old one was so soft, i ran it 27k Miles, but was afraid it was on the edge of failure from the beginning. Smallcar has a better one now (the red one). Which they charged me full pop for even though the old one was their mistake. Ya know, a discount woulda been appropriate they didn't have to get full pop for both.

Pressure from slave is good. Ass end up on ramps is not in your favor bleeding from back to front, if you do that, put nose up.

The vanagon clutch master is not properly matched to the Jetta slave. But it can be matched by changing the mechanical ratio. Fred's the right way to do it, it widens the modulation band to normal. Will soften the clutch pedal pressure a little.

You might consider simply limiting your clutch pedal throw an inch to prevent over-extending the slave. At least with a wood block. There is a fix for that problem that involves a clutch pedal modification. I'm typing on my phone way out in the woods. Try searching "Fred clutch pedal".

PS thats really awesome you dropped the trans !!
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[MarkWard]

So, you have a pedal now, but the clutch does not disengage? How long was the van sitting? If it was sitting for a spell, the clutch disc may have seized to the flywheel or pressure plate. It is uncommon, but does happen.

So, if you have a good pedal, I would suggest this task. Position the van, so that you can drive off. Start the engine in neutral and let it come up to temp. Now shut the engine off and put the transmission in 3rd gear.

Then start the engine in 3rd gear with the clutch pedal depressed. This often is enough load to pop the disc free. If that works you can drive it around for a bit and you should be good to go. Bummer.
_________________
☮️

[dobryan]

[Howesight]

Why can't SmallCar sleeve down a factory Vanagon clutch master cylinder and sell it as part of the bellhousing conversion? It would be the simplest solution and gives a bonus of a new master cylinder.
_________________
'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[rfoubi]

[insyncro]

Slow down, no blasting
7-10psi on the Power bleeder.

[insyncro]