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Body Changes.... How is my 91 different from your 80?
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:56 am    Post subject: Body Changes.... How is my 91 different from your 80? Reply with quote

The title year choice is arbitrary .......

but in a recent thread a discussion arose about rain gutter differences.

Try as I might I could not find much in the way of photos or exact model year change information.

There are a LOT of body changes over the years, maybe a thread like this exists? If so link to it and stop this one dead in its tracks.

Rain Gutters.....

As I understand it, the 1980 model was introduced with a very pronounced rounded rain gutter.......
Like this....... (Thank You Gruppe B ! )

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


What year did this gutter design end and the newer squared style like I have on my 86 begin ?

My 86 .......

Rear.....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Front .......

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is my Right Rear Rain Gutter without the plastic decorative trim..... (Oh Joy..... RUST!!! ).....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Drawing (not by me! Unknown source, Google search)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Interesting side note on rain gutters, in the gutter is stamped the date the roof assembly was pressed!

Is this true for all years?
Mine is stamped 04/86 and my primary assembly date is 05/86.

It is right above the upper forward edge of the door (blue arrow is pointing to the location) but you can only view it from the top looking DOWN into the gutter......

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Does this type of date stamp appear on other assemblies????

Davel
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Last edited by djkeev on Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:18 am; edited 4 times in total
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:04 am    Post subject: Re: Body Changes.... How is my 91 different from your 80? Reply with quote

We have rear air vents, sliding door, front doors, dash changes, flow through ventilation, and and and.........

A suggestion to enhance this thread,
If you post, please try to include photos if possible ...... If you can't maybe others will post some.

Dave
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:14 am    Post subject: Re: Body Changes.... How is my 91 different from your 80? Reply with quote

The rear hatch went through several iterations, as did the front grills
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: Body Changes.... How is my 91 different from your 80? Reply with quote

front windscreen washer nozzles

pre '87:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


post '87:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


and he graphic is a Fiamma awning console with Fiamma F35 awning

****** Moderator edit (addition) to keep it together....

It wasn't just the square headlights for my 86 has the older nozzle location....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: Body Changes.... How is my 91 different from your 80? Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
The rear hatch went through several iterations, as did the front grills


Can you post any details of what you know?

Dave
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D Clymer
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: Body Changes.... How is my 91 different from your 80? Reply with quote

Three production changes that quickly come to mind:

1. Rear license plate/oil filler flap handle changed from curled style to grab handle. (1983 or 1984)

2. Rear decklid push-button and surrounding sheetmetal revised. (1984)

3. Chrome front bumper gained embossed ridge along back edge. Used to be flat like the rear.

I'll add pictures when I have a chance. Fun thread!

D
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ZsZ
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:43 am    Post subject: Re: Body Changes.... How is my 91 different from your 80? Reply with quote

rear decklid vw logo moved to the center in '87
pre '84 with small button:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


'84 to '87 with bigger button but no vw logo:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


post '87 with big vw logo:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:58 am    Post subject: Re: Body Changes.... How is my 91 different from your 80? Reply with quote

I think the front grill thing was more like model related in Euro market

Four versions: round headlights with small logo, round headlights with large logo, square headlights small logo and square headlights with large logo.
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noganav
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Body Changes.... How is my 91 different from your 80? Reply with quote

The 1980 vans had a different frame. Box instead of I-beam. And there's the rear vents and rain gutters of course. There were a few other little differences too. Antenna placement was all over the place, I think a lot of them were added by the dealer.

Just as interesting are the things that exist on early vans as provisions for later upgrades. The whole front end was obviously built to accept a radiator one day. But VW also had smaller plans. My 1980 had the tabs to accept the mounting bracket for a fiberglass bumper (which wasn't made by VW for another 8 years).

I owned a 1980 and a 1991 at the same time, and it was fun making comparisons. Wish I had taken pictures. Embarassed
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Body Changes.... How is my 91 different from your 80? Reply with quote

Rather than repost it all..... Here is the front door difference thread.....

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649588

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649032&highlight=

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Body Changes.... How is my 91 different from your 80? Reply with quote

Already mentioned are the rear engine air vents.....

1980, 81, had stamped metal vents..... (AZ Landshaper)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


1982 I see documentation for both metal and plastic in the sales brochures..... Anyone have a definitive change date? I Think that it is simply photo mislabeling and that 1982 saw the introduction of the plastic vent.


********
EDIT: Apparently the plastic vent was introduced when the diesel engine was installed during the 1981 production run.
*********


83 and Later years had the screw on plastic vents.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Dave
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Last edited by djkeev on Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Body Changes.... How is my 91 different from your 80? Reply with quote

Early 81 model year vans still had the metal rear intake grills until mid-81 when diesel vans came out. Then VW needed to switch to the removable plastic ones. This change was needed because the diesel had an intake snorkel that went up to the grill area and you must remove the grill to do anything with that upper snorkel part. Later vans also got snorkels up there.
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D Clymer
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Body Changes.... How is my 91 different from your 80? Reply with quote

Just thought of another one. The rear apron below the rear bumper on the really early vans didn't have the notch in the center. The notch was added so there was clearance for the Westfalia style tow-hook.

Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Body Changes.... How is my 91 different from your 80? Reply with quote

D Clymer wrote:
Just thought of another one. The rear apron below the rear bumper on the really early vans didn't have the notch in the center. The notch was added so there was clearance for the Westfalia style tow-hook.

Dave


By "Slot" I am guessing you mean this dimple (beneath my hitch)....

Does anyone have a photo of a non "Slotted" early rear apron?

1986 rear apron......

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Body Changes.... How is my 91 different from your 80? Reply with quote

Early 83 air-cooled Westfalia.
No date stamp above passenger door.
No slot in rear apron.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Body Changes.... How is my 91 different from your 80? Reply with quote

85 Westies had the tallest oe springs
86 and up had smaller sliding door window opening for the updated handle assembly. Pre 85 side windows were the same size.
89 up has vented rear most side glass assemblies
90 and 91 offered several suspension and brake upgrades
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Body Changes.... How is my 91 different from your 80? Reply with quote

I like this thread Very Happy 'cause I have an '81 air cooled and will say it has the plastic engine air vents . Cool crazyvwvanman already said the change happened half way thru '81 with the introduction of the diesel .
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Body Changes.... How is my 91 different from your 80? Reply with quote

D Clymer wrote:

2. Rear decklid push-button and surrounding sheetmetal revised. (1984)

When I had to replace my small button lock I found out that( from JY guy) the small buttons showed up on some early 85's.
Can any one here confirm this?
No date stamp on my passenger side rain gutter.
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Saying that specs are different than dimensions doesn't make sense. Porsche specs/VW specs/engineering specs are nothing but a series of dimensions,sizes,percentages,measurements, etc.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: Body Changes.... How is my 91 different from your 80? Reply with quote

Throwing this out there with the expectation of corrections. Off the top of my head:

'85 and older had 21mm sway bars, '86 and up had 19mm, although I think there are some '85's with 19mm.

Mid '85 went from stamped lower control arms to cast.

Mine has the larger sway bar with cast control arms, so a hybrid of sorts.

'86 and up has the newer style fuse panel.

'85 had either metal 1.25" coolant pipes or the later 1.5" plastic.

Between '86 and '87 the rear AC unit was changed. (LoveMyWesty's ride is an '86 with the later '87 style AC from the factory--one of the many great details one learns at Syncro Solstice.)

The '84 Wolfsburg Westfalia had a tachometer, but did not have the green and orange colors. Colors were added in '85.

Edit to add: Also, HVAC control knobs were changed in '85. Up to '84 had wider knobs that were much more durable. '85 and up have the narrower, lighter ones that break at the base eventually.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Body Changes.... How is my 91 different from your 80? Reply with quote

Does anyone else NOT have an "OXS" indicator light on their instrument cluster? My 91 Westy doesn't have it.
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