1967 convertible top

[richardsxfile]

I just had a new top installed on my '67 by a reputable VW resto shop, and while it looks great, I do have a few concerns. I am looking for some input/advise as I consider how to move forward.

A little background: About 10 years ago I couldn't quite close the top after driving around with it down. It would barely reach the windshield but not enough to engage the latches. That was the day my Ghia became a roadster in spirit. Living in So Cal, there are less than 30 days in the year I wouldn't drive with the top down. My car has always been garaged and after taking it out, I always put the top back up and left it unlatched.

I decided to finally get the top done, but now I have a cosmetic question and a door closing issue.

1. Cosmetically - Where the headliner meets the header, should the headliner attach between the header and cover plate? This was how mine was before. The shop attached the new headliner between the frame and the header, so when you look up, you can see the header which leaves a gap between the cover plate and headliner. They wrapped it in vinyl, but it seems it would be so much cleaner if the headliner met the cover plate and hid the header entirely. Am I correct that the headliner should be stapled UNDER the header rather than ABOVE it? I know it would look better; I want to be certain how it was off the assembly line. See photo.

2. Top pressure - It takes some tremendous torquing to close the new top. I realize it will stretch some, but it feels like my Huf crank is going to snap in half as I'm cranking it closed. Will time fix this or are the header and latches not far enough forward?

3. Door issues - My doors and gaps were perfect before the top. Now, not so much. The back of the car moved forward, so now the gaps at the back of the door are too small. So small, that they won't close correctly because the rubber seals won't fit in the incredibly tight spaces. At the top of the doors, the gap is almost nonexistent - less than 1/16. As you move down it's 1/16, maybe 1/8 at the widest points. The installer told me it was normal for the body to shift like that with the new top. I realize I didn't have it latched for 10 years, but the body never came off the pan. Could the gap really have opened up? I don't see how the new smaller gaps are supposed to work. I have the gray German quality rubber and it bunches up and won't allow the doors to close all the way. Even more telling that some serious body pulling is occurring is that the driver door came back to me too far in about an 1/8 inch and the passenger door is too far out 1/8 inch. I can't get the passenger door in any more because the seal won't fit. I can't get the driver door out because the striker is already adjusted to its outer limit. (I took the seal off the driver door, or it wouldn't have any chance of even meeting the striker.)

Is the top frame way too tight? I haven't pulled the seat out to check the pan bolts there nor at the shock tower. Wouldn't those have had to have been loosened to bring the rear forward so much? Last summer I put new hinges, seals, latches, wedges, etc. on the doors and they were working and gapped perfectly. Now I have a new top, but I can't enjoy it because the doors are so messed up.

Obviously, I need to take the car back, but I was wondering about the headliner and if anyone had more knowledge on releasing some of the top tension and getting the rear to move down and back the 1/8 inch or so I need. Thanks for any and all input.

[sputnick60]

Hi Richard,

This is a photo of my '66 before I dismantled it. It should be fairly similar to yours and is the original cabrio top for that car

I hope that helps your cause

Nicholas
_________________
'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
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[Disc]

1. Thanks to Ghiaddict, here is nice topic about convertible top replacement:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=389729

Car in topic is later, '70 but headliner fit is the same as yours. When headliner is replaced, first header bow must be warped is piece of headlined material and then headliner is tacked ABOVE header bow. Seems like reputable VW resto shop have their own way to do this.
Here's a pic from topic mentioned above:

Just like sputnick60's car.
Here's a pic from one of tops that I've replaced. You can see that piece of headliner tacked to header bow. Cover plate is not yet installed.

2. and 3. - They must adjust top frame to fit proper, before even start replacing top. When top is replaced there is a bit of pressure when latching the top, but not that big to ruin perfect door gaps and prevent doors from closing! May be they didn't adjust top frame, or top cover is over tighten when tacked in place.

Give them a visit!
_________________
The glory never gets old, just need new paint.
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Nick

[richardsxfile]

Thanks Nicholas and Disc. So I guess the header is still visible, but it should be wrapped in headliner material. Is the cover plate then wrapped in vinyl? Sputnick60's cover plate doesn't look perforated. I have the original metal cover plate. Is the vinyl correct versus headliner material or paint?

[Disc]

Cover plate must be wrapped in vinyl. You can paint the cover, just for rust prevention.
_________________
The glory never gets old, just need new paint.
-------------------------------------------------
Nick

[sputnick60]

[69sback]

did you get canvas? it will be hard to crank for a while until it stretches out. I had to leave my top up for a week or two before it stretched out and became easier to crank.

EDIT: to give you an idea of how hard it was to get the top down and latched, I needed another person to push down on the top while I would crank it. That was the first week or two. Now 5 weeks later, I can use my left hand to pull it tight and crank lightly with my right hand.

[richardsxfile]

It is canvas. I expect the fit to be very tight especially at the beginning, but not so tight that I can't close my doors. I haven't had the top down since I got it back about 3 weeks ago. I have talked with the shop and will be taking it back. I haven't even driven the car since it depresses me that the doors are so bad at the moment. I doubt the door gap is going to open enough as the top stretches, so I assume I'll have to investigate what's going on at the rear seat bolts and shock tower. I haven't had a chance to do so as I have a two month old and a three year old at home. Assuming the bolts are all in place, I'm perplexed as to how the body could flex so much. I hope it wasn't tweaked in a way that can't be fixed.

[richardsxfile]

It's seven months later, and I do not have a working top or resolution with the shop owner. I have posted a detailed account of my experience with Lenny Copp at West Coast Classic in Fullerton, California in the buyer and seller feedback forum ( http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6664008#6664008 ). My experience with Lenny has been disastrous for me and my vehicle.

Does anyone have a photo of a 67 Ghia with the top in the closed position but not latched? Part of the problem with the work Lenny did is that he didn't adjust the frame, so when the top is brought forward, it is still quite a distance away from the pins the latches need to engage. It takes three people and Herculean strength to close the gap and crank the top closed. This then pulls the windshield back and the rear of the car forward which closes the door gaps at the rear entirely so that they do not open and close as normal.

Still waiting for Lenny to make this right after numerous broken promises.

A photo or measurement of the distance from latch to pin before cranking would be great if someone has it. $3,100 later and mine has to be forced a few inches before the latches even begin to engage.

[rcooled]

Ask, and you shall receive...

This is my '67 with a 3-year-old Hartz Stayfast canvas top, shown here with the latch just released. The gap between top & windshield header is about 1 1/2", measured at the middle. After the top's been down for the afternoon, it'll sit a little higher but I can easily snug it down with one hand while latching with the other.

_________________
'63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone)

[richardsxfile]

Thanks, rcooled. Love your Ghia. I've actually viewed your photos of it when searching 67 Ghias on a few occasions. Are the snaps for your top cover above the trim under the rear window or screwed/glued/welded to it? Is it correct that originally the top cover only snapped at the front, sides, and rear corners and not at all along the center rear above the deck lid vents?

PS I want your rear view mirror. I have the 66 style.

[c21darrel]

66-67 should be the same mirror. no?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1340499

[rcooled]

[toddb_67]

[vwcomet]

Rcooled, your Ghia is CLEAN! I also have a 1967 convertible. Do you have a header seal on your top? If you do, what does it look like and where did you get it. I am currently using foam tape and it doesn't look very good. Sorry to get off topic.

[rcooled]

[laguest]

I know this is an old thread, but I am having the same issue with my bug. The top needs to come down further toward the front window so it latched better.

Is there a way to do this?

It could be my frame was hacked and is a bit short.

Thanks

[bluedot]

[laguest]

Thanks for all the info on getting the top to fit right. I have it sitting in the driveway right now in the hot sun.

I took some more pics to show whats going on.
http://gallery.guestfamily.com/Top-02

On the passenger side it seems the top is one inch back from the front. This is both on the outside and inside. On the driver side its about half an inch, again both on the outside and inside.

You can also see the top has some boxes on it so its sitting down against the car.

Looking at this more could it be that at one point the top did close the correct way, but now maybe the body has been tweaked some so now the top come up short from hitting the correct spot in the front?

Thanks

[bluedot]