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jimf909 
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7477
Location: WA/ID
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 Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:32 am Post subject: Re: What's the real world handling loss going to 11/2" lift springs? |
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Here's one of the better suspension threads I've found (and its in the faqs, thanks, Mods!)...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=538751&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
_________________
- Jim
| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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newfisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2012
Posts: 1764
Location: The wet spot--Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: What's the real world handling loss going to 11/2" lift springs? |
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Month 1: I love it.
Month 2: I like it.
Month 6: It's OK, not sure if I should have done this.
I am on my 3rd set of GW springs.....just saying |
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IdahoDoug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10251
Location: N. Idaho
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: What's the real world handling loss going to 11/2" lift springs? |
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3rd set because you love them? Or 3rd set because of problems and replacing them? Wasn't sure what you meant here on pro/cons of lifts.....
Doug
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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jimf909
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7477
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:41 pm Post subject: Re: What's the real world handling loss going to 11/2" lift springs? |
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| newfisher wrote: |
Month 1: I love it.
Month 2: I like it.
Month 6: It's OK, not sure if I should have done this.
I am on my 3rd set of GW springs.....just saying |
Agreed. The 1 to 6 month timeline sounds less than positive.
The 3rd set comment could go either way: you keep buying the cause you love em or you're on the 3rd set cause they're crap.
_________________
- Jim
| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
|
Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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newfisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2012
Posts: 1764
Location: The wet spot--Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:54 pm Post subject: Re: What's the real world handling loss going to 11/2" lift springs? |
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| The fronts do not seem to retain the original ride height on mine and other 2x vans. |
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levi
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005
Posts: 5522
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:25 am Post subject: Re: What's the real world handling loss going to 11/2" lift springs? |
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| newfisher wrote: |
| The fronts do not seem to retain the original ride height on mine and other 2x vans. |
Yep, same with the set I got from them.
Dropped about an inch within a few months.
On the other hand, the rear set is awesome.
_________________
One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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IdahoDoug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10251
Location: N. Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:22 am Post subject: Re: What's the real world handling loss going to 11/2" lift springs? |
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That's unfortunate. When a suspension does not start at the point it is supposed to be, all manner of odd handling and ride ills result. Particularly suffering is the interaction between the front and rear suspension, which you can feel when both go over the same bump - one may absorb it well, the other may toss the vehicle awkwardly.
The same happens in cornering when the body lean is ill managed by the front suspension and correctly by the rear. While its in cornering attitude, an odd "figure 8" body movement can happen as the center of mass is lower at the front than at the rear.
I'd consider poly spacers to bring the front up to the same level.
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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newfisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2012
Posts: 1764
Location: The wet spot--Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:46 am Post subject: Re: What's the real world handling loss going to 11/2" lift springs? |
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I'd consider poly spacers to bring the front up to the same level
Do you have a line on some specifically for the front of a Vanagon? I have exhausted my resources and were going to turn some on a lathe, but buying a set seems much easier for me. |
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IdahoDoug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10251
Location: N. Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: What's the real world handling loss going to 11/2" lift springs? |
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Just saw this - sorry. No, I don't know of any. Your solution is exactly what I'd do, though - make them myself. You're probably as anal as I and would want the van as precisely leveled as possible  A local plastic supplier may sell you scraps, or a cheap cutting board from Target may provide enough material for a pair. That's what I did for my Vanagon's speaker mounts as a cheap material source.
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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jimf909
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7477
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: What's the real world handling loss going to 11/2" lift springs? |
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| levi wrote: |
| newfisher wrote: |
| The fronts do not seem to retain the original ride height on mine and other 2x vans. |
Yep, same with the set I got from them.
Dropped about an inch within a few months.
On the other hand, the rear set is awesome. |
This makes me wonder what's reasonable to expect for lost height as a spring settles in. Should it be zero? 1/2" (measured axle to fender lip)?
Does anyone have insights on this?
_________________
- Jim
| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
|
Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: What's the real world handling loss going to 11/2" lift springs? |
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| newfisher wrote: |
I'd consider poly spacers to bring the front up to the same level
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A 2WD does not accept much in the way of a spacer upfront. I think 1/4" is the most.. but try a search and see what the forum digs up.
The shape of the spring cup is such that any spacer will want to work its way out.
I decided against any spacer there.. and instead set my fronts.. then adjusted the rear to suit the front.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: What's the real world handling loss going to 11/2" lift springs? |
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| jimf909 wrote: |
This makes me wonder what's reasonable to expect for lost height as a spring settles in. Should it be zero? 1/2" (measured axle to fender lip)?
Does anyone have insights on this? |
I think you'll get answers ranging from very little to a full inch...
After 4 yrs, my syncro.org 2WD 1" lift springs sit at about 3/4" higher than where my Westy sat before with 15 yr old OEM springs.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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jimf909
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7477
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: What's the real world handling loss going to 11/2" lift springs? |
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| j_dirge wrote: |
I think you'll get answers ranging from very little to a full inch...
After 4 yrs, my syncro.org 2WD 1" lift springs sit at about 3/4" higher than where my Westy sat before with 15 yr old OEM springs. |
This is very helpful. Syncro.org 2WD springs are at the top of my list.
_________________
- Jim
| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
|
Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:12 am Post subject: Re: What's the real world handling loss going to 11/2" lift springs? |
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| jimf909 wrote: |
| j_dirge wrote: |
I think you'll get answers ranging from very little to a full inch...
After 4 yrs, my syncro.org 2WD 1" lift springs sit at about 3/4" higher than where my Westy sat before with 15 yr old OEM springs. |
This is very helpful. Syncro.org 2WD springs are at the top of my list. |
I've been pleased with mine. They ride a little more firm than stock, but not truck-like harsh.
They sat level from the get go , right our of the box..
When I added rear racks, the van sat a little low in the rear (loaded up).
Initially I used cutting board spacers to make up that difference.. then installed air adjust shocks and the van can be leveled under most any circumstance.
That said. there have been some mixed reviews on syncro.org springs, too. I don't think ANY product is going to make any group 100% happy, 100% of the time.
Ultimately I chose these because I did not want my van sitting as high in the arc of suspension travel.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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0cean
Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2012
Posts: 1149
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:49 am Post subject: Re: What's the real world handling loss going to 11/2" lift springs? |
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| insyncro wrote: |
Syncro.org/Schwenk Springs and Fox adjustables are sweet on a Syncro.
Add 215/75/15s with a T3technique 25mm swaybar and you are stylin'.
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Does that setup stress the CV's limits? Is it a good ride height that is sustainable long term?
_________________
I'm not a mechanic, I just play one on the internet
Cluster Rebuild:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569920&highlight=
Left for Dead the Resurrection Story Build:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=613669
(Number of Different Donor VW Vans Body Parts Used: 12)
(Number of completely different vehicles parts used: 3) |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: What's the real world handling loss going to 11/2" lift springs? |
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| 0cean wrote: |
| insyncro wrote: |
Syncro.org/Schwenk Springs and Fox adjustables are sweet on a Syncro.
Add 215/75/15s with a T3technique 25mm swaybar and you are stylin'.
|
Does that setup stress the CV's limits? Is it a good ride height that is sustainable long term? |
The 2wd Fox shocks are not long travel, so no they will not reach the CV breakage point.
On a Syncro, that depends upon who installed and adjusted the parts. |
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0cean
Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2012
Posts: 1149
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: What's the real world handling loss going to 11/2" lift springs? |
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| insyncro wrote: |
| 0cean wrote: |
| insyncro wrote: |
Syncro.org/Schwenk Springs and Fox adjustables are sweet on a Syncro.
Add 215/75/15s with a T3technique 25mm swaybar and you are stylin'.
|
Does that setup stress the CV's limits? Is it a good ride height that is sustainable long term? |
The 2wd Fox shocks are not long travel, so no they will not reach the CV breakage point.
On a Syncro, that depends upon who installed and adjusted the parts. |
For Syncro, what parts need to be watched and for what issues. I'm asking because my build has this setup.
_________________
I'm not a mechanic, I just play one on the internet
Cluster Rebuild:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569920&highlight=
Left for Dead the Resurrection Story Build:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=613669
(Number of Different Donor VW Vans Body Parts Used: 12)
(Number of completely different vehicles parts used: 3) |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: What's the real world handling loss going to 11/2" lift springs? |
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| 0cean wrote: |
| insyncro wrote: |
| 0cean wrote: |
| insyncro wrote: |
Syncro.org/Schwenk Springs and Fox adjustables are sweet on a Syncro.
Add 215/75/15s with a T3technique 25mm swaybar and you are stylin'.
|
Does that setup stress the CV's limits? Is it a good ride height that is sustainable long term? |
The 2wd Fox shocks are not long travel, so no they will not reach the CV breakage point.
On a Syncro, that depends upon who installed and adjusted the parts. |
For Syncro, what parts need to be watched and for what issues. I'm asking because my build has this setup. |
Front tire wear tells the story. |
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0cean
Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2012
Posts: 1149
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: What's the real world handling loss going to 11/2" lift springs? |
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| insyncro wrote: |
| 0cean wrote: |
| insyncro wrote: |
| 0cean wrote: |
| insyncro wrote: |
Syncro.org/Schwenk Springs and Fox adjustables are sweet on a Syncro.
Add 215/75/15s with a T3technique 25mm swaybar and you are stylin'.
|
Does that setup stress the CV's limits? Is it a good ride height that is sustainable long term? |
The 2wd Fox shocks are not long travel, so no they will not reach the CV breakage point.
On a Syncro, that depends upon who installed and adjusted the parts. |
For Syncro, what parts need to be watched and for what issues. I'm asking because my build has this setup. |
Front tire wear tells the story. |
That's nice and vague. Care to elaborate there buddy.
_________________
I'm not a mechanic, I just play one on the internet
Cluster Rebuild:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569920&highlight=
Left for Dead the Resurrection Story Build:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=613669
(Number of Different Donor VW Vans Body Parts Used: 12)
(Number of completely different vehicles parts used: 3) |
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Birdcage
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2013
Posts: 203
Location: Collins of fort
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: What's the real world handling loss going to 11/2" lift springs? |
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| 0cean wrote: |
| insyncro wrote: |
| 0cean wrote: |
| insyncro wrote: |
| 0cean wrote: |
| insyncro wrote: |
Syncro.org/Schwenk Springs and Fox adjustables are sweet on a Syncro.
Add 215/75/15s with a T3technique 25mm swaybar and you are stylin'.
|
Does that setup stress the CV's limits? Is it a good ride height that is sustainable long term? |
The 2wd Fox shocks are not long travel, so no they will not reach the CV breakage point.
On a Syncro, that depends upon who installed and adjusted the parts. |
For Syncro, what parts need to be watched and for what issues. I'm asking because my build has this setup. |
Front tire wear tells the story. |
That's nice and vague. Care to elaborate there buddy. |
It's not really that vague, If you've driven syncros with mods for a while your front tire wear will tell you a lot.
This is all subjective info anyways, your going to get everyones personal opinion about the various aftermarket parts available. Truth be known most folks spend a ton of money on parts and barely use their van, but it sure looks cool in the garage.
The real question is why do you want to lift your van? what will you gain by doing so? Are you actually going to use the benefit of the lift?
I don't see ant relevancy in the real world handling loss question. Were not driving baja trophy trucks. Its like a mattress, some like it firm others like it pillowy. I don't think theres a magic shock & spring combination, whatever you can afford should be just fine. Its a capable machine in stock form, upgrades are cool but are you doing it to actually use it or will it be stored over winter and pulled out to show off a couple weekends a year.
Ive handed my keys to several syncro folks over the past year to let them drive my doka on trails and on pavement. many comment how great it drives/handles. I laugh all the time because Ive been driving with a bent tie rod end and my camber out of whack wearing the outsides of my front tires and no sway bar for about a year. Go figure |
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