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cwat1982 Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014 Posts: 143 Location: Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:32 am Post subject: Help Jetting Dual HPMX 44's |
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Hello all,
So engine typically takes a few tries to get started, when running there is a slight bog when beginning to accelerate from cruising in 3rd/4th gear. Besides that engine seems fine. When I pulled the plugs, easy to see it has been running rich.
Engine was built in Spokane at ~2000ft elevation. When built it was a 2100cc with 1 1/2" exhaust.
I pulled the jets and found installed were F11 emulsions, 115 mains, 200 airs, and 60 idles. Minus cylinder 4 which had a 50 idle for some reason. This setup seems WAY off from stock, and from what I see forum pro's (Dale M., MURZI, john@ aircooled.net, etc.) recommending in other threads.
Exhaust has been upgraded to 1 5/8", and elevation in my parts is ~1200ft.
Feeling like , want to be feeling like . Help would be greatly appreciated in getting this running right.
Cheers,
CWAT _________________ 1970 Joe Poty Sand Rover T Bug Pickup, 2095cc |
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madmike Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 5291 Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:57 am Post subject: Re: Help Jetting Dual HPMX 44's |
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try 55 idles
130 mains
leave the rest alone
what vents? should be 32's _________________ 'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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MURZI Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2005 Posts: 5063 Location: Madisonville, La
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Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:04 am Post subject: Re: Help Jetting Dual HPMX 44's |
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I would start by adjusting floats to 10.75mm. Jet to 52/140/200. Mixture screws out 1.5 turns from seat. I would also grab each throttle shaft at the carb end to check for up and down play. Somebody has been in there......and definitely sounds like they didn't know what they were doing.
Jet it like this and let us know how it runs at these speeds.....steady pedal. 2000, 2500, 4000 and wide open. Should be a good start. _________________ 62 vert
2276
Tim’s welded heads
45 Dells
A1 sidewinder
Fk44 cam |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:56 am Post subject: Re: Help Jetting Dual HPMX 44's |
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Probably should have stayed with 1 1/2 inch exhaust .... You can get it to big and it reduces scavenging and it can hurt performance...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:11 am Post subject: Re: Help Jetting Dual HPMX 44's |
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since Bubba has been in there, MEASURE ALL THE JETS _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
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cwat1982 Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014 Posts: 143 Location: Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:28 am Post subject: Re: Help Jetting Dual HPMX 44's |
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Hahaha... impressed 3 of the members I mentioned all replied, very much appreciated!!
john@ air-cooled.net, this engine was brand new when I picked it up the buggy a couple summers ago. The OE put on 300 miles to break it in for me. Came from what I understand to be a reputable engine shop out of Spokane... Hooks Air Cooled VW Repair. Going to order all new Weber jets and start fresh.
Dale M., I purchased the new exhaust based on recommendations from the engine builder, he said the exhaust the OE had on the engine was too small. He said to pick up the 1 5/8" Tri-Mil sidewinder, which I did, and later installed a Flowmaster HP-2 Shorty 2" x 2" to keep my kids shorts dry when riding in it.
MURZI, I will adjust the floats and order new jets as you described. From other threads it looks like Weber jets are the way to go so I will do that. The throttle shafts feel solid, no up/down or side to side play.
madmike, laughing at myself... first took me 5 minutes of searching to figure out vents = venturi's (you now know my experience level). Have the carbs apart and couldn't figure out how to remove them, or a guide on how to remove them to measure... wound up finding a socket that was a perfect snug fit, when I measured that it showed 30mm.
Before I order everything... I was shopping and came across these kits (http://www.racetep.com/webjetkit.html). Based on the jet size I should be installing and engine size, this is showing I should have a 34-36mm venturi's. madmike's suggestion was 32mm, stock is 36mm, and I currently have 30mm... What should I order for venturi's???
Once again, appreciate the feedback.
Cheers,
CWAT _________________ 1970 Joe Poty Sand Rover T Bug Pickup, 2095cc |
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madmike Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 5291 Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:47 am Post subject: Re: Help Jetting Dual HPMX 44's |
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30's should work _________________ 'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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MURZI Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2005 Posts: 5063 Location: Madisonville, La
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Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:06 am Post subject: Re: Help Jetting Dual HPMX 44's |
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Put 36's back in. _________________ 62 vert
2276
Tim’s welded heads
45 Dells
A1 sidewinder
Fk44 cam |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Help Jetting Dual HPMX 44's |
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This is the shop that put in (3) 60s and (1) 50, right?
I'm just saying measure them, even if they are new, JIC.
cwat1982 wrote: |
john@ air-cooled.net, this engine was brand new when I picked it up the buggy a couple summers ago. The OE put on 300 miles to break it in for me. Came from what I understand to be a reputable engine shop out of Spokane... Hooks Air Cooled VW Repair. Going to order all new Weber jets and start fresh.
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_________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
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cwat1982 Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014 Posts: 143 Location: Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Help Jetting Dual HPMX 44's |
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Ok... floats are set 10.75mm and 32mm droop. Looks a little off due to the angle in the picture but I promise thats what it is.
Both are HPMX 44's, but different versions. One has a choke circuit (I believe thats what its called), and the other doesn't.
After removing the float plate it looks like there are brass components in the older model where the choke circuit is, and the newer model doesn't have any. Am I missing any pieces, or is this just a difference between the models? Does it matter that they are different models?
Ordered 34mm venturi's, 135 mains, and 55 idles from john @aircooled.net... now the waiting game...
Cheers,
CWAT _________________ 1970 Joe Poty Sand Rover T Bug Pickup, 2095cc |
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MURZI Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2005 Posts: 5063 Location: Madisonville, La
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Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Help Jetting Dual HPMX 44's |
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I would abort this mission and move on. I promise you those carbs are someone else's nightmare. Order some new HPMX's and chalk th cost up to engineering costs.
Talking from experience here..... _________________ 62 vert
2276
Tim’s welded heads
45 Dells
A1 sidewinder
Fk44 cam |
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cwat1982 Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014 Posts: 143 Location: Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: Help Jetting Dual HPMX 44's |
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Hahaha, I would... but already bought the jets and venturi's. Plus this has been great learning for me. A couple years ago if you asked me to point to the carbs I might have pointed to the headlights.
I wouldn't think different version of HPMX 44's would matter, same size... ran fine before, just rich... hopefully the vents/jets will solve that.
The learning continues... _________________ 1970 Joe Poty Sand Rover T Bug Pickup, 2095cc |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:45 am Post subject: Re: Help Jetting Dual HPMX 44's |
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Leave all the "choke" parts in place on old model HPMX.... But I believe other comments (MURZI'S) is correct about these two carbs were someone else's problem and got passes on to you....
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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cwat1982 Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014 Posts: 143 Location: Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Help Jetting Dual HPMX 44's |
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After MURZI's comment I did some more digging on TheSamba to see if there was anything else I should be looking into on these things and came across this thread "HPMX trouble, need carb guru".
john @aircooled.net said both of the plungers should be down in the choke circuit so I looked at mine and found this.
Solution was that experienced VW guys tap the top of the plunger hole, then run a set screw down to hold that piston down. Or to fill the enrichment hole at the base of the carb with some JB weld or tap and plug it.
JB weld idea seems the easiest...
Should I go ahead and do this?
Cheers,
CWAT _________________ 1970 Joe Poty Sand Rover T Bug Pickup, 2095cc
Last edited by cwat1982 on Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:51 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Help Jetting Dual HPMX 44's |
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Tap and use screw in plugs at bottom flange... Would not JB Weld with long time soaking of fuel I tend to not trust epoxies...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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cwat1982 Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014 Posts: 143 Location: Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Help Jetting Dual HPMX 44's |
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Sounds good, thanks Dale. _________________ 1970 Joe Poty Sand Rover T Bug Pickup, 2095cc |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: Help Jetting Dual HPMX 44's |
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when taping ,just be sure to not distort the bore or the flutterbys may not close/seal well at idle. |
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cwat1982 Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014 Posts: 143 Location: Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Help Jetting Dual HPMX 44's |
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I tried searching for flutterby on here to see what it is, but the only hits were from you mark. Are you talking about the throttle plates binding if I warp the enrichment hole while tapping?
Cheers,
CWAT _________________ 1970 Joe Poty Sand Rover T Bug Pickup, 2095cc |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9665 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:15 am Post subject: Re: Help Jetting Dual HPMX 44's |
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cwat1982 wrote: |
I tried searching for flutterby on here to see what it is, but the only hits were from you mark. Are you talking about the throttle plates binding if I warp the enrichment hole while tapping?
Cheers,
CWAT |
Yes. Mark has a funny way of explaining things. You just have to read them a few times to get what he means.
Good Luck. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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MConstable Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2004 Posts: 1822 Location: Saint Charles IL
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:37 am Post subject: Re: Help Jetting Dual HPMX 44's |
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Flutterbys=butterflies
You've been "Mark"ed |
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