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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34013
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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 Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Any alternatives to Bosch Distributor Grease? |
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| Any difference between the yellow tube of Bosch grease (I've had it since about 1977) and the white tubes that were available until recently? |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76937
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:46 am Post subject: Re: Any alternatives to Bosch Distributor Grease? |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| Any difference between the yellow tube of Bosch grease (I've had it since about 1977) and the white tubes that were available until recently? |
The same.
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:50 am Post subject: Re: Any alternatives to Bosch Distributor Grease? |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
^^^^^^ This......This.......is what I have been ranting about for a while. And not just about distributor parts and lube.
Far too many owners of the whole ACVW range of vehciles.....are STILL....just treating these like cheap low maintenance vehicles.
Running parts and components until not only the one part if worn out....but the other three or four connected to it are worn out.....sinstead of taking the added time.....to do more frequent maintenance to try to preserve parts whenever possible......simply because they do not ....yet....see issues with buying the occasional NOS part whenever they need it
They do mot invest or collect parts. They spend as little time, effort and money as possible.
For example.....to me.....its sad....but entertaining...watching the bay bus L-jet crowd freaking out about the sudden and catastrophic disapperance of their Ts-2 cylinder head temp sensors on the market.
The diligent owners collected and kept a few in their stash. There are even a few enterprising people working on a replacement.....but the vast majority are gnashing their teeth.
The same mind set goes toward....working on finding alternative parts for parts and materials that are eventually going to dry up....BEFORE you need them.....because one day the lack of this part....WILL leave you with a vehcile that literally cannot be driven because you can no longer get a key part.
I catch shit all the time working on new or alternative technology for my ACVWS from people who state....."why waste all that time and money.....just go to the classified's.....I never have a problem finding one of those when I need one".....  ......yep....gonna wake up one day.....and find that parts have dried up.....or are so scarce that you can no longer afford them.
Ray |
Ray,
Over the years i've collected a large number of vintage and NOS spare parts for my car and future builds. Recently i've realized that I will most likely not be building another car, so i've started to sell off what I know i'll never use. There's no reason to deprive others of parts than need and i'll never use. And quite honestly, it's easier to move cash than a trailer full of parts when I sell my house and downsize to something smaller.
But when it comes to distributor parts... i'm investing. I have over $30,000 worth of parts, so i'm in it for the long haul. |
True....  ...there is thinking ahead for the longevity of a vehicle or two...and there is hoarding. If everyone just generically hoarded....the parts situation would go from bad to worse quicker.
My point is that hard to find.....no longer manufactured parts....that are already available in limited numbers...pass slowly by most people every day...at reasonable prices....and no one buys a spare...because they think what they see today .....availability and cost wise...will stay the same.
The other problem is that so much of what is available is NOS. NOS is getting older by the day. Storage of many of these parts is not perfect...and material lifespan...is not perfect forever.
Far too many NOS parts are turning up shot or unusable due to either material natural deterioration with age, corrosion from poor storage etc.
Brake parts are like this. Also....some of the issues that are being found even with NOS condensers made back in the "good" era....are likely due to moisture contamination and internal corrosion from the sheer age of the parts.
It all just means that there will be less parts available from the passage of time alone even if no one is using the parts to wear them out.
I too am starting to thin my herd of parts just to help others out. Ray |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: Any alternatives to Bosch Distributor Grease? |
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One thing that's important to note is MANY different companies back in the 60's, 70's and 80's also manufactured distributor grease. I've sourced several different tubs and tubes of this distributor grease along with a couple of tubes of Bosch grease. I have enough to last a life time.
I think we'd all like to use Bosch grease forever but these other greases (in my view) are just as good. Again, the grease was formulated for distributors points cams and internal parts.
Myself and the other distributor restorers like to use the appropriate grease during the restorations for sure. However, it's kind of funny that we are all getting so OCD about the EXACT formulations when we've all seen the damage done to distributors from LACK OF GREASE.  I know plenty of VW folks who've used wheel bearing grease for decades on the points cams with no issues.
As to the drying up of NOS parts and trouble finding parts that are NLA, I'm going to continue to be optimistic here. In the past 10 years we've seen many long gone NLA parts reproduced to high standards. The sensor that Ray spoke of for the fuel injected buses has already been reproduced. The points and condensers Bosch has discontinued are being made by other companies. It's not like the current Bosch parts are that stellar these days anyway. I hear about unobtainable this or that parts, then see them at VW swap meets.
My 69 bugs inside door opening latch mechanism hole for the pull rod was egg shaped FROM LACK OF GREASE over the decades. The pull rod was rattling in the now oversized hole. I ordered a new assembly from CIP-1. It arrived yesterday. I compared them to each other on the bench. I was impressed by the quality of it. It looked identical with good plating, fit perfectly and the rod was snug in the hole.
We have to be honest here too. How many VW's get more than a few thousand miles put on them in a year anymore? Colin and Robbie are two that come to mind that do more than 10k a year on their rigs. My VW's get less than 1k a year put on them. They've all been mechanically overhauled. I can't think of one part currently that I'm worried about not being available in 10 years.
I've also gone through my stash of NOS parts that I know I'll never need in the future and sold most of them off. I have some key parts but I was keeping too many of some.
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6616
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Any alternatives to Bosch Distributor Grease? |
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I have a few sets blue streak points in my boxes. They are supposed to be self lubricating and leave a 'Blue Streak'.
I don't see grease or the new clear cam lube to all that effective but I haven't use it. If those points aren't greased they will wear into the shaft.
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: Any alternatives to Bosch Distributor Grease? |
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| Quote: |
| wcfvw69 said: One thing that's important to note is MANY different companies back in the 60's, 70's and 80's also manufactured distributor grease. I've sourced several different tubs and tubes of this distributor grease along with a couple of tubes of Bosch grease. I have enough to last a life time. |
And...all of them work about equal I would bet.
| Quote: |
| I think we'd all like to use Bosch grease forever but these other greases (in my view) are just as good. Again, the grease was formulated for distributors points cams and internal parts. |
Back in the day...most of this "need" for specific formulation...was done to be compatible with the plastic used in the points parts. The early nylon uses..and even phenolic plastic to some extent had issues with basic greases used in wheel bearings because of the oil bases. Most of the newer synthetic greases ...no matter what their thickener base...have few-er issues with plastics...but still issues with rubber (ester based versus petroleum)
| Quote: |
| Myself and the other distributor restorers like to use the appropriate grease during the restorations for sure. However, it's kind of funny that we are all getting so OCD about the EXACT formulations when we've all seen the damage done to distributors from LACK OF GREASE. I know plenty of VW folks who've used wheel bearing grease for decades on the points cams with no issues. |
Oh for sure.....I did too...at one time. Then after realizing how crusty it gets in cold weather and over time....basic Lubriplate grease became my go to grease for points. Then later...I discovered THIS....lubriplate #10...in little tubs...which is IDEAL for distributor use...look at the specs... -60 to 280 ...and an NLGI consistency rating of 1 to 1/2. I stole it from my dad. It is a common "gun" grease. But kind of hard to find on the street.
https://www.lubriplate.com/Online-Store/10-oz-tubes/Low-Temp-Grease-10-oz-tube.html
But the gist is...back when I used "wheel bearing grease"....it had to be cleaned out and relubed on a regular basis.
| Quote: |
As to the drying up of NOS parts and trouble finding parts that are NLA, I'm going to continue to be optimistic here. In the past 10 years we've seen many long gone NLA parts reproduced to high standards.
The sensor that Ray spoke of for the fuel injected buses has already been reproduced. |
And has already failed numerous who bought and used it...and in most places it was offered they are already out of stock.
Example...German Supply...out of stock. Pelican out of stock. Auto Atlanta...$95...and unknown quality
Bus depot lists a stainless steel on...no idea of how it works
| Quote: |
| The points and condensers Bosch has discontinued are being made by other companies. It's not like the current Bosch parts are that stellar these days anyway. I hear about unobtainable this or that parts, then see them at VW swap meets. |
Totally agree. Better points out there still being made....and I don't use points anyway ...but you better buy a few....because when the bean counters come to the conclusion that the manufacturing space and time allotted is not worth the returns....and they envision that tripling the price would not fly (even if it might)....you will wake up one sunny weekend and go down to NAPA...and find the points "NLA"
My 69 bugs inside door opening latch mechanism hole for the pull rod was egg shaped FROM LACK OF GREASE over the decades. The pull rod was rattling in the now oversized hole. I ordered a new assembly from CIP-1. It arrived yesterday. I compared them to each other on the bench. I was impressed by the quality of it. It looked identical with good plating, fit perfectly and the rod was snug in the hole.
| Quote: |
| We have to be honest here too. How many VW's get more than a few thousand miles put on them in a year anymore? |
True...but too many parts also suffer from age and not being used in this same scenario. Just because its not being driven does not mean parts do not age....as many are finding out
Colin and Robbie are two that come to mind that do more than 10k a year on their rigs. My VW's get less than 1k a year put on them. They've all been mechanically overhauled. I can't think of one part currently that I'm worried about not being available in 10 years.
I've also gone through my stash of NOS parts that I know I'll never need in the future and sold most of them off. I have some key parts but I was keeping too many of some.
When my beast gets back on the road it will do about 10k per year or more.
One reason I am working so hard to get undercoating and sealing right...is that I plan to take road trips in the winter as well....and am diligent about washing off after trips across salted terrain.
I do not plan to finish a 20 year project just to have a hanger queen. I WILL go through wear parts. Ray |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76937
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: Any alternatives to Bosch Distributor Grease? |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| However, it's kind of funny that we are all getting so OCD about the EXACT formulations when we've all seen the damage done to distributors from LACK OF GREASE. |
Ya think
105 posts and nearly 70,000 views.
I agreed that 95% of the owners over the years never greased the cam. But then they didn't expect these cars to still be on the road 50+ years later.
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74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Any alternatives to Bosch Distributor Grease? |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| However, it's kind of funny that we are all getting so OCD about the EXACT formulations when we've all seen the damage done to distributors from LACK OF GREASE. |
Ya think
105 posts and nearly 70,000 views.
I agreed that 95% of the owners over the years never greased the cam. But then they didn't expect these cars to still be on the road 50+ years later. |
Or ever wipe the old dirt/dust impregnated remaining points cam grease off before applying some more. [/b]
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Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
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bnam
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2006
Posts: 2936
Location: El Dorado Hills CA/ Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:23 am Post subject: Re: Any alternatives to Bosch Distributor Grease? |
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What grease is recommended other than Bosch grease for the advance weights? I read many posts that suggested Super Lube which is Silicone based. I don't have access to that but have Liqui MOly Silicone Grease. Was wondering if I should use.
But, the MSDS says don't mix greases of different bases. Since we lube the upper cam assy with a few drops of motor oil, I expect that oil to flow down and over the plate that the advance weights are on (even just a little bit). Is that ok?
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swanlakers
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Any alternatives to Bosch Distributor Grease? |
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| bnam wrote: |
What grease is recommended other than Bosch grease for the advance weights? I read many posts that suggested Super Lube which is Silicone based. I don't have access to that but have Liqui MOly Silicone Grease. Was wondering if I should use.
But, the MSDS says don't mix greases of different bases. Since we lube the upper cam assy with a few drops of motor oil, I expect that oil to flow down and over the plate that the advance weights are on (even just a little bit). Is that ok? |
If the felt wick is in place in the rotating shaft I don't think you need to worry. The idea is to put a few drops of oil on top of the wick, not to flood it. The oil won't flow it is filtered.
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Krochus
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Joined: January 01, 2017
Posts: 892
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: Any alternatives to Bosch Distributor Grease? |
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The number 1 thing SKF tells you in training class to become a certified installation facility and technician.
GREASE IS JUST A CARRIER FOR OIL
The only time a grease is really wrong for reducing friction is if it’s incompatible with the previous grease or is thermally not suitable for the job.
In short. Just wipe the thing off and grease it. No 18 page thread needed.
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76937
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Any alternatives to Bosch Distributor Grease? |
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Then why are there so many different types?
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Glenn
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Krochus
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2017
Posts: 892
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Any alternatives to Bosch Distributor Grease? |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| Then why are there so many different types? |
Because Germans.
This is No joke VEM (German) makes an electric motor marketed towards the steel industry. For these motors they are lubricated with an extremely exotic grease from BECHEM called Berutox FH 28 KN. There probably isn’t more than 10 cases of this grease in the United States at any given time and it’s costs $45 a tube whosale. The only thing that makes this grease special over the industry standard Polyrex EM is the thermal properties. In the case of the Berutox this grease withstands nearly 400 degrees Fahrenheit! Wow great a super grease. Well except for one problem the skf bearings this grease lubricates have a failure temp of 250 degrees.
Mainly different properties center around corrosion resistance and thermal properties. All of which are catering to extremes well beyond what the inside of a Volkswagen distrubitor sees. For the most part all electromechanical devices mankind has ever created could be lubricated with one of 3 greaeses
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Boolean
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Joined: January 19, 2012
Posts: 1712
Location: Stockholm
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Any alternatives to Bosch Distributor Grease? |
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| Krochus wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| Then why are there so many different types? |
Because Germans.
This is No joke VEM (German) makes an electric motor marketed towards the steel industry. For these motors they are lubricated with an extremely exotic grease from BECHEM called Berutox FH 28 KN. There probably isn’t more than 10 cases of this grease in the United States at any given time and it’s costs $45 a tube whosale. The only thing that makes this grease special over the industry standard Polyrex EM is the thermal properties. In the case of the Berutox this grease withstands nearly 400 degrees Fahrenheit! Wow great a super grease. Well except for one problem the skf bearings this grease lubricates have a failure temp of 250 degrees.
Mainly different properties center around corrosion resistance and thermal properties. All of which are catering to extremes well beyond what the inside of a Volkswagen distrubitor sees. For the most part all electromechanical devices mankind has ever created could be lubricated with one of 3 greaeses |
I agree with this. Just pick the right thickness. I think the Bosch grease is NLGI 2 or 3. Somebody knows this?
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Frederik
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Joined: August 18, 2007
Posts: 578
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:39 am Post subject: Re: Any alternatives to Bosch Distributor Grease? |
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| I don’t want to promote my own add, but I’m sure other than me have the Bosch Grease and are willing to sell a smaller amount from the tube. A 225ml tube must be more than most (not including the top rebuilders) ever going to need. |
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Frederik
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Joined: August 18, 2007
Posts: 578
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:59 am Post subject: Re: Any alternatives to Bosch Distributor Grease? |
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| bnam wrote: |
What grease is recommended other than Bosch grease for the advance weights? I read many posts that suggested Super Lube which is Silicone based. I don't have access to that but have Liqui MOly Silicone Grease. Was wondering if I should use.
But, the MSDS says don't mix greases of different bases. Since we lube the upper cam assy with a few drops of motor oil, I expect that oil to flow down and over the plate that the advance weights are on (even just a little bit). Is that ok? |
I’ve posted this before, it’s really a lube scheme for Bosch distributors in Volvo but they and others are more specific than the Vw manuals. The older distributors with phenolic sliding plate under the weights used Bosch ft1v8 (”light machine bearing grease”) for the weights. I think I’ve seen ft1v22 or v26 for it as well in other manuals (”ball bearing grease”). The later distributors (without phenolic sliding plate) used ft2v3 on the weights (”silicone grease”).
As to the Ft1v4 points cam Grease, I’ve not come by any other grease that are the same in thickness and texture. I don’t know if you had the same in the states, but in the 90’s there was a hair wax called ”Dax Wax” that was da shit. ”Everyone” was using it (if not hair gel that made your hair look like you had an super glue accident).. but it really was terrible! It was hard and oily and you had to use dishwasher soap multiple times to maybe, just maybe get it out of your hair and your pillow never got the same as there always was some residue left in your hair. The color, texture and feeling when you take a finger tip of the Bosch Grease always makes me remember this 90’s hair wax.
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Frederik
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Joined: August 18, 2007
Posts: 578
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Any alternatives to Bosch Distributor Grease? |
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| furgo wrote: |
| Quote: |
| 5. Ol 1 V 13 Steep the bushes in oil for at least 1/2 hour before fitting. Saturate lubricating felt. |
This part I cannot correlate to the distributors I've seen. It might be probably because I've only worked with Late Bay distributors. IIRC in those there are no separate bushes, they're integral part of the housing. Also, there is no additional lubricating felt in that position for those, only the one on top of the shaft. But I assume that older distributor models have got removable bushes and a lubricating felt there. |
This is a late reply, but yes somewhere in the late 50’s Bosch added bushings to the cast iron Vw distributors. Even if you have not removed them but cleaned the distributor well they do ”dry out”. I’m sure some just oil the shaft and thats enough, but what I do when I rebuild a distributor is that I plug one end and fill the distributor foot with the bushings in it with oil and let it sit for >1/2 h before I put in the shaft.
This is the original Bosch buschings used:
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chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 3444
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Any alternatives to Bosch Distributor Grease? |
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Just bought some Dist cam lube from Napa - part number - ECH ML1 Moly Lube. Was about $5. Very clingy stuff.
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Any alternatives to Bosch Distributor Grease? |
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Years ago while doing some research I came across a B.E.F. report that reviewed the distributor used in the Kuble and Schwimmer. It was highly critical of the quality of the Bosch product stating that it couldn't possibly survive many miles since it didn't have any bushings in the housing. Of course the Brits won the war so anything German had to be inferior.
Sixty years later, just about every distributor from the early 40's through late 50's that has come across my work bench has been restorable or at least provided some parts.
That Dax Wax bit is really funny. I remember as a kid the barber putting Vitalis or some other product in my hair without asking first. I've never put anything like that in my hair since!
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Last edited by tasb on Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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