Oil Gallery Plug Leak Behind Motor Mount

[oscarsnapkin]

I know Colin has discussed this topic here before concerning Headflow Masters rebuilds and a leaky gallery plug. Since I've had my engine rebuilt it has always leaked some oil for the first minute or two after a cold startup. I finally got around to narrowing down where it is coming from and I've isolated it to a tapped plug in the rear of the engine, directly in front of the driver's side motor mount bracket. It is very difficult to see, especially since my face is about an inch from a hot muffler. I just hit 1,000 miles on the engine, so I switched from break-in oil to a 20W-50 synthetic this past weekend. Now my small oil leak has grown to a more substantial size, I'm assuming due to the higher pressure of the thicker oil, hence why I've finally decided I need to figure this out. The picture below is from another Samba user, so it is not my actual engine, but it is a GD case like mine. I drew a red arrow to my trouble spot. There is a small plug that protrudes maybe 1/8-1/4 inch out from the case. It is impossible to get to with out removing the shroud and engine carrier and motor mount brackets, which I'm guessing means removing the entire engine as well. Any thoughts on how to handle this leak? Is engine removal a must? If I do tear everything down so I can access the plug is it foolish to try and tighten it for fear of stripped threads? Do I remove it, slather it with sealant and put it back in? I was wondering about perhaps using some type of sealant around the outside of the plug to help stop the leaking. I appreciate your help on this most frustrating situation.

_________________
- 1977 CEI Sunroof Bus 2.0L F.I. Hydraulic Lifters
- 1973 Thing

"It’s so easy to laugh, it’s so easy to hate, it takes strength to be gentle and kind."

[Abscate]

Clean the hell out of it with degreaser, then acetone (gloves, goggle, fresh air)

Then put a nice big plug of JB Weld over that to stop that leak. Cant do any harm and if it holds, your gold!
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[jtauxe]

[SGKent]

I'd think it would pop the JB weld off, and certainly it would make it impossible to remove it if failed to stop the leak. Teflon sealant is what one uses. Better look more closely to see if there are any cracks or is it falling from above or elsewhere. Unless it was put in dry they rarely leak when threaded in with Teflon sealant.
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[Wildthings]

I would change out the oil pressure switch before I did anything else, cheap and easy and may just be the source of your leak.

For the galley plug remove it and see how clean you can get everything. If you can get it 100% oil free then you could use some Loctite hydraulic sealant on the threads, but if you can't get the treads 100% oil free then use something like Aviation Permatex on the threads.

[old DKP driver]

If indeed you do find that galley plug you pointed to is leaking and it is
threaded just pull it out and reseal it with.
Loctite 518 Teflon sealant or
Napa Teflon sealant which is the same as
Permatex 545

Chances are as Wildthings stated it may just be the OP switch.
_________________
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[Abscate]

If you can get it dr greased JB Weld will hold.

If it is a threaded plug, though, then I concur that removing and sealing it would be best.
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.ssS!

[aeromech]

Did Headflow masters do your rebuild? If so, how long ago?
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[TomWesty]

For what it's worth: http://www.aera.org/technical-articles/oil-galley-plugs
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[nathansnathan]

If it were me, I would consider tapping the thread deeper. If one of the small plugs is actually a 1/4" out, that is too much, I think a thread or 2 is the desired amount that should be proud.

It would be an npt thread which is tapered, so unless there is a problem with the tap bottoming out (which I don't remember being a problem on the smaller ones) it should be ok to go deeper.

I'd use loctite 518 to seal it.

[oscarsnapkin]

I'm going to start pulling things apart this weekend to gain access to the plug. My fear is that the threads were botched when they were tapped. I'm no expert, but it seems that trying to repair the threads would allow pieces of metal to enter the case. My wife and I are expecting twins in the next 2-3 weeks so if I don't start working on this soon it'll never get done. I'm hoping I don't have to pull the engine since my Bus takes up my entire garage and there is no room to store an engine. Thanks.
_________________
- 1977 CEI Sunroof Bus 2.0L F.I. Hydraulic Lifters
- 1973 Thing

"It’s so easy to laugh, it’s so easy to hate, it takes strength to be gentle and kind."

[lil-jinx]

If you can get it clean,then a little red lock tight applied to the exposed treads may seal it,use enough lock tight so it goes all around the plug where it meets the case.Let sit for a day or so to harden up.
If you do remove the plug,get another plug ,a different plug may screw in farther,and you won,t have to re-tap the hole.
Over tightening the plug can crack the case.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes.

[Wildthings]

[oscarsnapkin]

OK, here's some pictures of the little bugger. Wasn't too bad gaining access. I removed the exhaust as a complete unit from the back of the afterburner on. The alternator I hung with an S hook off of the bail wire on the valve cover so I didn't have to disconnect the wiring. I also had to remove the engine carrier so I could access the leaky plug. All in all it took about 2 hours to remove everything. I figure on about 3 to put it all back.

The tap job appears to be less than stellar, and there seems to have been a minimal amount of sealant used on the threads. The threads on the plug seem fine, but I figured as such since it is a steel plug going into an aluminum block. I know a few of you have suggested trying a different plug. What would be the reason for that? I was thinking of using Loctite 545. It is listed as a hydraulic/pneumatic sealant. However, I see that it its upper temperature range is 300F, is that OK? Am I better off using something else?
_________________
- 1977 CEI Sunroof Bus 2.0L F.I. Hydraulic Lifters
- 1973 Thing

"It’s so easy to laugh, it’s so easy to hate, it takes strength to be gentle and kind."

[Tcash]

Looks like PO stuffed the wrong plug in the hole. That's what happens it only goes in a few threads.
You need to figure out what threads are cut into the case and get the correct plug.

Tcash

[Wildthings]

I would definitely try a bunch of plugs from different sources before trying to tap the hole deeper.

This is actually an easy hole to deal with though as you can remove the plug on the bottom of the case and then the spring and plunger and the chips can fairly easily be caught and removed with minimal danger that they will end up where you can't get at them.

[lil-jinx]

The plug that you removed is not a pipe plug,/wrong plug/,a pipe plug has tapered threads, which cause it to tighten has you turn it in.
Not all pipe plugs are created equal, some start smaller then others causing them to screw into the hold farther then others, that's why you would try a new plug if the first "pipe plug" did not screw in far enough.The same goes for the plug hole, if you do have to tap the hole using a pipe thread, take care not to go too deep with the tap, or else the pipe plug may not tighten or will go too deep into the hole.
Good luck.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes.

[oscarsnapkin]

I finally had a little time to start working on this again. I took the suggestions and tried a few different plugs, but the one that I removed seemed to be the best choice. I was able to screw it in fairly tight but I didn't want to push my luck and wind up stripping the threads. I used aviation Permatex as Wildthings had suggested. I've never used this before and I noticed that it remains fairly "liquidy" and tacky, even after a couple of days. This has me concerned that any sealant that squeezed through the threads into the oil passages are going to get into my engine and muck things up. Also, there are two gallery plugs next to the oil filter bracket (you can see one of the in the picture below). Should these plugs be peened and/or covered with JB Weld?

Hopefully I can finish putting this thing back together over the next few days. I want to let it sit a little longer just to make sure that the sealant has cured. If it doesn't leak I'll finally be able to sealcoat my driveway! Thanks.
_________________
- 1977 CEI Sunroof Bus 2.0L F.I. Hydraulic Lifters
- 1973 Thing

"It’s so easy to laugh, it’s so easy to hate, it takes strength to be gentle and kind."

[Wildthings]

You should really tap that hole a few threads deeper since you haven't been able to find a plug that will go in any deeper. Just buy the correct sized pipe tap from most any hardware store and run it in a couple of more turns. First remove the plug from the bottom of the case followed by the spring and plunger, noting how they came out. Now grease up the threads on the tap to catch any filings and run the tap in until it begins to tighten and cut. Turn it in an additional turn with a Cresent Wrench and then remove and clean the grease from the threads and test fit the plug. Regrease the threads and repeat the process until the plug when tightened sticks out no more than a thread or two. Now clean the hole and the bore below it carefully to remove any grease and filings and then clean the hole and plug further with spray brake cleaner. Seal the plug in well with Aviation Permatex or some other goop of your choice and reinstall the plunger, spring, and bottom plug just the way they came out.

Note: As you are tapping the hole make sure you get the tap started in nice and square to the hole each time and if the tap does appear to be likely to hit the other side of the bore (which I don't think it will) then grind enough off the end of the tap to keep this from happening.

[oscarsnapkin]

Success! I finally was able to reassemble my Bus and fire it up, not a drop of oil on the ground! I wasn't able to re-tap the threads as was recommended simply because I knew I would never have the time to do it. Not to mention that I was a little afraid of damaging the case. Five week old twins and a sick dog have taken over my life and the Bus is way on the back burner. Fortunately, the Bus kind of blocks my circuit box in my garage and I am in the middle of doing some electrical work so I had a great excuse to get it back together. The aviation Permatex did the trick, along with tightening the plug a little further down than it originally was. I had a miserable time putting the exhaust and the tin back together, but I think I will start a new thread for that since it doesn't really pertain to this topic. Thanks to everyone for the advice. I'm so glad to have my Bus back on the road after almost two months. Looks like any other major projects will be on hold for awhile so hopefully it'll just be driving and minor maintenance for the rest of the summer. Thanks again.
_________________
- 1977 CEI Sunroof Bus 2.0L F.I. Hydraulic Lifters
- 1973 Thing

"It’s so easy to laugh, it’s so easy to hate, it takes strength to be gentle and kind."