Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts New!  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Help choosing between two Westies
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
dchase36
Samba Member


Joined: April 23, 2016
Posts: 9
Location: WA (Seattle)
dchase36 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:15 am    Post subject: Help choosing between two Westies Reply with quote

Hi,

First time poster...looking to purchase a Westfalia and looking at two in particular with very different price points.

Option 1) A 1987 Westy in incredible shape. 4 Owners, clean autocheck, 94K miles total, completely stock with AC. Automatic. New paint, at a local shop that has made sure it is road ready. Downside is there doesn't seem to have been any mechanical work done. $21.5K asking price

Option 2) A 1984 Westy (not wolfsburg but has power steering) in slightly worse body shape. Has 155K miles, 10K on rebuilt 1.9L Gasoline Water-cooled engine, rebuilt transmission also under 10K miles. $11.5K asking price

Option 2 is about half the price of option 1 so i am trying to understand how valuable it really is to have a 1986 or newer westy. Want it for a 3 month road trip at which point i'm open to keeping or selling. Can afford either, but obviously prefer to spend less. Really appreciate general thoughts

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=dchase36&show_results=summary


Last edited by dchase36 on Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:32 am; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
DwarfVader
Samba Member


Joined: July 28, 2015
Posts: 646
Location: Missoula, MT
DwarfVader is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: Help choosing between two Westies Reply with quote

Have a PPI done on both... You won't really know what's going on with either mechanically till you do.

Base your decision of that.
_________________
- oderint dum metuant -

I'll find my van someday, or it will find me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
Fiddlestyx
Samba Member


Joined: July 08, 2015
Posts: 304
Location: Texas
Fiddlestyx is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: Help choosing between two Westies Reply with quote

Option 1 has new paint that could hide potential problems and no mechanical work.

Option 2 is showing its problems and has had mechanical work.

I would go with option 2. You could use the extra 10 grand to fix up option 2.

Pics would help though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Dana Champion
Samba Member


Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 632
Location: Ventura County, CA
Dana Champion is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:03 am    Post subject: Re: Help choosing between two Westies Reply with quote

Just looked at your pictures. Have you driven both of them ? Look very closely at the paint job on the '87. The overall condition should give a clue. The '84 doesn't look like a Wolfsburg to me. It should have the later seat fabric, I believe. Is there room in the price of the '87?
If the seam rust doesn't bother you on the '84 . Body repairs are harder to make look like nothing ever happened than mechanical repairs. The '87 will probably be easier to resell. ?

Take your time and make sure it feels right.

Good luck !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Bills85Westy
Samba Member


Joined: August 01, 2009
Posts: 403
Location: Napa CA
Bills85Westy is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: Help choosing between two Westies Reply with quote

Fiddlestyx wrote:
Option 1 has new paint that could hide potential problems and no mechanical work.

Option 2 is showing its problems and has had mechanical work.

I would go with option 2. You could use the extra 10 grand to fix up option 2.

Pics would help though.


I agree with this ^^. The 87 might be easier to resell, but it's also at a much higher price point. Functionally, I don't think you'll notice much of a difference between the two.
_________________
85 Westfalia Syncro (conversion)
SAH 1.8T Conversion - 2005 AWP
Engine Conversion Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=612144&highlight=
85 Doka L345 Grey - 1.9L
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ahwahnee
Samba Member


Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9124
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
Ahwahnee is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:13 am    Post subject: Re: Help choosing between two Westies Reply with quote

dchase36 wrote:
...i am trying to understand how valuable it really is to have a 1986 or newer westy...


To me (but I'm biased) that is of no import whatsoever.

Given your comments about possibly selling at the end of your adventure -- I think you will be more likely to recoup your outlay with the 84.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
CanStan
Samba Member


Joined: October 16, 2005
Posts: 650
Location: Calgary, AB
CanStan is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:14 am    Post subject: Re: Help choosing between two Westies Reply with quote

New paint always scares the hell out of me. If it wasn't done right, you could easily be spending another 10k+ to make it right. That being said, if it was done properly with pictures to prove it, that makes it quite appealing. Bodywork can be the most costly thing to do on a Vanagon. A new engine, transmission, cooling system etc. can cost a couple thousand each but that's nothing compared to rust repair and body damage.
I personally like to find the best body possible, and work on the mechanical side to get it where I want it. I think most people have the skills and tools to do mechanical vs bodywork, although your abilities may vary.
If your plan is to resell the van sooner than later, maybe a smaller investment for the cheaper van is the way to go?
Obviously there are pros and cons to both, so maybe have them both looked at by a qualified shop that knows Vanagons, and go with your gut.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kalispell365
Samba Member


Joined: April 01, 2010
Posts: 888
Location: PNW
kalispell365 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: Help choosing between two Westies Reply with quote

I very much prefer the simplicity of the earlier vans, but that's just me.
_________________
1983 Diesel Vanagon Westfalia chassis with Subaru 2.2l
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
davevickery
Samba Member


Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
davevickery is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing between two Westies Reply with quote

I'd go for the 84 in this case at those prices. The 84 looks decent and if you aren't sure if you want to keep it, you will recoup all or most of your money going with that one. And less likely to have major work right off the bat, or on your cross country trip. I also don't like the idea of a new paint job (cost that you are paying indirectly), particularly if done just before the sale.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
OddN
Samba Member


Joined: August 19, 2010
Posts: 682
Location: Northern Norway
OddN is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing between two Westies Reply with quote

This is a tough one. Normally i would say to go with the better body, all else being equal. But there is no certain way to tell how good the respray is. And the price is nearly double that of the early one. All i can say is dont buy the 87 unless you are confident the respray is done properly.
_________________
1991 VW Multivan syncro 1,9 TD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
djkeev Premium Member
Samba Moderator


Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 26820
Location: North West New Jersey
djkeev is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing between two Westies Reply with quote

Do you like grey better than brown?

Is grey worth the $10,000 premium?

For no rebuild history and a fresh paint job, the 87 is crazy priced!!

Maybe with some before photos and a binder of receipts, then the 87 may be a good buy. But that price with zero documentation?

Buy the older unit that has a virgin body (though weather worn) and has a paper trail of repairs.

Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
candyman
Samba Trout Slayer


Joined: December 20, 2003
Posts: 2584
Location: Missoula MT
candyman is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing between two Westies Reply with quote

Buy em both Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Gauche1968
Samba Member


Joined: April 13, 2006
Posts: 1483

Gauche1968 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 2:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing between two Westies Reply with quote

candyman wrote:
Buy em both Wink


Win the lottery first.... Very Happy
_________________
1984 Vanagon GL
1984 Vanagon Westy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Tom Powell
Samba Member


Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
Tom Powell is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing between two Westies Reply with quote

The '87 is an automatic, has a sound system, poptop canvas with windows, ARG's and arm rests. Both look clean, but '87 mechanicals and records are unknown. Do they have clocks or tachometers? Neither one has poptop lift assist. You'll want the lifts if you use the ARG's for Yakima racks. Many good comments posted earlier regarding new paint. Lack of rust is more important than new paint. Inspect the fuel lines and change them. Prior maintenance and reliability would be big factors if you plan to keep it only for a short time. If you buy the less expensive vehicle and keep it for a long time you'll have a bankroll to do a sound system and other upgrades. The '84 might not resell immediately and you may have it for a longer time than you intend. The '87 might resell easier, but may not, because many people want a manual transmission and/or are suspicious of new paint. i.e. lipstick on a pig

94K miles and no mechanical work may have been needed and will not be needed for another 30K miles.
155K miles, 10K on rebuilt 1.9L, rebuilt transmission under 10K miles. Should not require drivetrain work, but suspension parts will probably need maintenance and/or repair within 30K miles.

50/50 choice
20/10 price
40/60 reliability
?/? fuel lines

Drive them both and you'll like one better than the other.

Aloha
tp
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
CanStan
Samba Member


Joined: October 16, 2005
Posts: 650
Location: Calgary, AB
CanStan is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing between two Westies Reply with quote

I agree with some of the comments about the '87 being more desirable for potential buyers if you plan to sell after your trip. However, I think the '84 could often be an easier sell. There are more people who have $10,000 to invest in a toy than those who have $20,000.
If you think you might keep it long term, pick the one you will be happiest to drive. Do power steering, power mirrors, armrests, bigger engine, etc mean a lot to you? If you don't care either way and you can save $10,000 buying the '84, that's a huge savings.
It's hard for anyone to definitively say one way or the other what you should do, but there's lots of good things in this thread to think about to help you make the right choice.
Good luck with whatever you choose!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
chrissev2
Samba Member


Joined: March 03, 2012
Posts: 131
Location: Toronto
chrissev2 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing between two Westies Reply with quote

dchase36 wrote:
Hi,

First time poster...looking to purchase a Westfalia and looking at two in particular with very different price points.

Option 1) A 1987 Westy in incredible shape. 4 Owners, clean autocheck, 94K miles total, completely stock with AC. Automatic. New paint, at a local shop that has made sure it is road ready. Downside is there doesn't seem to have been any mechanical work done. $21.5K asking price

Option 2) A 1984 Westy (not wolfsburg but has power steering) in slightly worse body shape. Has 155K miles, 10K on rebuilt 1.9L Gasoline Water-cooled engine, rebuilt transmission also under 10K miles. $11.5K asking price

Option 2 is about half the price of option 1 so i am trying to understand how valuable it really is to have a 1986 or newer westy. Want it for a 3 month road trip at which point i'm open to keeping or selling. Can afford either, but obviously prefer to spend less. Really appreciate general thoughts

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=dchase36&show_results=summary


My first question in this situation would be "why was the $21K 1987 Westy painted".

Find out the answer to that one.

Then decide.

Chris
_________________
1980 rabbit 2dr
1986 westfalia auto
2013 Golf TDi
2007 Golf city
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
jimf909 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 5256
Location: Seattle
jimf909 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing between two Westies Reply with quote

dchase36 wrote:
Hi,

First time poster...looking to purchase a Westfalia and looking at two in particular with very different price points.

Option 1) A 1987 Westy in incredible shape. 4 Owners, clean autocheck, 94K miles total, completely stock with AC. Automatic. New paint, at a local shop that has made sure it is road ready. Downside is there doesn't seem to have been any mechanical work done. $21.5K asking price

Option 2) A 1984 Westy (not wolfsburg but has power steering) in slightly worse body shape. Has 155K miles, 10K on rebuilt 1.9L Gasoline Water-cooled engine, rebuilt transmission also under 10K miles. $11.5K asking price

Option 2 is about half the price of option 1 so i am trying to understand how valuable it really is to have a 1986 or newer westy. Want it for a 3 month road trip at which point i'm open to keeping or selling. Can afford either, but obviously prefer to spend less. Really appreciate general thoughts

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=dchase36&show_results=summary


Dude, I'll try to be gentle, but do you have any idea how ridiculous your question is? "At a local shop that has made sure it's road ready"? They say this about a 30 year old rig that "doesn't seem to have been any mechanical work done"?.

A trouble free three month trip in a Vanagon is usually preceded by a) buying a $25 - $60k van with a long list of recent work or b) 3 - 24 months of detailed maintenance. Djkeev has a multi year build thread that preceded his 7,000 mile trip. The capable and knowledgable. Vanerjos team (http://www.vanajeros.com/blog123/) have driven their Vanagons throughout N and S America. Then they came to WA a few weeks ago to buy a beautiful third van only to have the engine blow up after 200 miles.

If you're gonna take chances on a Vanagon for a three month trip, a coin toss is as good as choosing based on advice from this crowd based on a two sentence summary of the vans, esp. when part of one includes the words "road ready".

Have you considered...
http://m.cruiseamerica.com/?src=google&gclid=CIeJ5_vGpswCFQ6naQodxmUDDg
_________________
Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.

Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro).


Last edited by jimf909 on Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:40 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Tom Powell
Samba Member


Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
Tom Powell is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing between two Westies Reply with quote

Several years ago I bought an '87 poptop sight unseen,with no PPI for $8500. It was delivered to my grandson, in school in Oregon, who has little mechanical knowledge, but told me, "It looks like a car that you would drive."

I picked it up and drove to the East Coast, with some skiing in Utah and visiting friends in Colorado and museums in Dayton. Crossed the Mississippi on a ferry. I parked the Vanagon at the hotel near Dulles and went to England and on a cruise ship for six weeks. Came back for my granddaughter's graduation and cruised Washington DC and Rhode Island. Drove back to SoCal with my daughter with stops at Carlsbad and the Alien Museum. I've have used the van for several more ski trips to Utah and Tahoe.

I did replace the front tires and had an alignment done after returning from the East Coast. Got a CV boot torn on the freeway in Las Vegas. I replaced the CV boot, the oil pressure switch, repaired a flat tire, switched in a tachometer, and undid some PO hacks. On the East Coast I went through some prior maintenance receipts and found a GEX warranty. It probably expired several years and tens of thousands miles ago.

Bottom line:
You don't always get what you pay for. Sometimes more, often less. If you know how do do repairs and maintenance, it gives you the confidence and ability to drive an unknown. I had a flexible schedule and was prepared for a break down with money, time, tools, some knowledge, and TheSamba.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


ROLL THE DICE

Aloha
tp
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
j_dirge
Samba Member


Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4638
Location: Twain Harte, CA
j_dirge is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: Help choosing between two Westies Reply with quote

Tom Powell wrote:

Bottom line:
You don't always get what you pay for. Sometimes more, often less. If you know how do do repairs and maintenance, it gives you the confidence and ability to drive an unknown. I had a flexible schedule and was prepared for a break down with money, time, tools, some knowledge, and TheSamba.

^^^THIS^^^

If 3 months on the road in a 25-30 yr old vehicle, plan your trip to include some on road repairs.. and save that $10k premium for repairs that you might want a shop to do.

I'd look for a van that has not been modified,.. no bling.. and I'd look for one with fewer miles on it.

Any 83.5-91 van would work if you must do this trip in a Vanagon. If a Vanagon is not a must, I'd look for a pickup with a shell or maybe even splurge on a turtle-back camper.

Its all about the jounrey
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bluebus86
Banned


Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075

bluebus86 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:53 am    Post subject: Re: Help choosing between two Westies Reply with quote

have a complete prepurchase inspection done. even a low mile rebui.d moror can be a liability if not built right, or if amiantance was not done on it in a timely fashion. a new otor that say for ten yearsbwith old antifreeze could have a head gasket leak the firt time you run it.

get it tested, you might be able to find a westy rental too. might be less money for you for if it fails the rental company is responsible.

good luck
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB