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jimf909 
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7462
Location: WA/ID
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 Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading my headlights |
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| IdahoDoug wrote: |
Factory original the squares are better - 4 lamps with 2 being dedicated high beams. However upgraded rounds to new euroH4 lightsare cheap and rhen outperform the squares. Some like me upgraded their factory squares with a wiring harness and higher output bulbs and are happy. The problem with changing squares to rounds is you then must factor in a harness, mounting buckets and grille to the upgrade.
Some day I would like to compare my maximally upgraded factory squares to someones round H4s..... |
I never drove factory squares in 1990 so I can't comment on that.
I drove an '85 with rounds for years and a '90 with squares, relays and high watt bulbs. I also drive a '90 with the oem driving squares replaced with e-code H-4s. My thoughts:
- The oem square arrangement at high was fine
- the oem square arrangement at low beam in 2016 was a remarkable safety hazard, even with relays and 80 watt lamps. The DOT lens pattern disperses light into an unhelpful sky bound haze and the 26 year old reflectors didn't.
- replacing the DOT low beams with e-codes improved safety dramatically.
Decent forward light is achievable while maintaining square oem good looks (Why put round headlights on a car where every single other shape is square? That'd be like putting square lights on a bimmer.)
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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takeiteasy
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2016
Posts: 169
Location: New York, NY
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading my headlights |
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Thanks, if anyone is looking for a square setup or dealing a round setup - please pm me.
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takeiteasy
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2016
Posts: 169
Location: New York, NY
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading my headlights |
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Is the south african kit a performance upgrage ? Or just aesthetics?
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Paulbeard
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2015
Posts: 2604
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading my headlights |
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| takeiteasy wrote: |
| Is the south african kit a performance upgrage ? Or just aesthetics? |
Mostly aesthetics but it does give you a lot of options in round headlights so you can get better performing lights. For the time/money it takes to find all the parts for a round headlight solution, I suspect you could have e-codes that look like OEM.
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Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading my headlights |
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a huge performance upgrade over the stock rectangular' lights
you will want the correct reflectors from Amazon, not the motorcycle headlight ones from a place back East
also, get Jay's relay kit
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jimf909
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7462
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading my headlights |
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26 year old reflectors may be past their sell-by date. Fresh round or square lights will be a notable improvement. Fresh e-codes will be even better (the light pattern is more focused)
Old square DOTs on the left, new square e-code on the right (low beam)...
_________________
- Jim
| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
|
Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32574
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:11 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading my headlights |
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During the 1960's, rather than introduce new redesign model years of the Beetle, VW would make what they called "Progressive Improvements". (Yes, there were also model years changes at certain years that were signifucant technology upgrades)
These were mostly minor tweaks.
A full Oval rear glass rather than two crescents
A larger rear glass
Bigger tail lights
Turn signals
Bigger front turn signal lights
Bumper redesign
Gas gauge
Etc. Most of this new stuff was easily retrofitted to an older body.
Many upgraded their 1959 Beetle making it kinda look like a 1962 or whatever.
"Instant new car!" Also increased value if sold to an unknowing consumer.
Today people are putting 1959 turn signals and rear glass into a 1974 Beetle making it look old.
For the most part, these back fitted units simply look stupid to any informed VW lover. IMHO
Why do likewise with the Vanagon? Why put on earlier lights and make your 1991 unit look like an 85?
Again simply my opinion. Yours may differ.
Dave
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mellowslow
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2009
Posts: 278
Location: Vacationland
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:53 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading my headlights |
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| djkeev wrote: |
During the 1960's, rather than introduce new redesign model years of the Beetle, VW would make what they called "Progressive Improvements". (Yes, there were also model years changes at certain years that were signifucant technology upgrades)
These were mostly minor tweaks.
A full Oval rear glass rather than two crescents
A larger rear glass
Bigger tail lights
Turn signals
Bigger front turn signal lights
Bumper redesign
Gas gauge
Etc. Most of this new stuff was easily retrofitted to an older body.
Many upgraded their 1959 Beetle making it kinda look like a 1962 or whatever.
"Instant new car!" Also increased value if sold to an unknowing consumer.
Today people are putting 1959 turn signals and rear glass into a 1974 Beetle making it look old.
For the most part, these back fitted units simply look stupid to any informed VW lover. IMHO
Why do likewise with the Vanagon? Why put on earlier lights and make your 1991 unit look like an 85?
Again simply my opinion. Yours may differ.
Dave |
Because I'm sweet on the look of the rounds and it was a quick and cheap way to throw more light.
Backdate upgrade.
Mostly because I like the simplicity of the look though. 
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OddN
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Joined: August 19, 2010
Posts: 690
Location: Northern Norway
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:27 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading my headlights |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Why do likewise with the Vanagon? Why put on earlier lights and make your 1991 unit look like an 85?
Again simply my opinion. Yours may differ.
Dave |
In my opinion there is no such thing as "earlier lights".
The round headlights was standard on many T3's from the factory all the way up to very last 92/93 models made in Germany, and also on South African base models even to the very end in 2002.
Some models had the square lights included in their option list, like the LLE, Carat, Coach, Atlantic and Vanagon (remember that the Vanagon is only one of many different VW Type 2 T3 models) but on other models the square lights had to be ordered as an optional extra even in 1992.
You could therefore say that retrofitting round headlights makes your Vanagon look like a european model as much as it makes it look like an earlier model. Put on a "Transporter" badge on the rear, and the round headlights are quite in place even for a 92 model.
That beeing said, I have always been very happy with the light from my upgraded e-code square lights, so no real need here to convert to round. I also have a Projekt Zwo square projector grille that I plan to use on my syncro. Quite excited to se how that compares to the regular squares.
But hopefully we can all agree that the first step in achieving better light is an upgrade to the wiring, including relays and high quality bulbs. A better voltage regulator is also an important step in making sure the bulbs get the highest possible voltage.
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djkeev
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greggearhead
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Joined: June 20, 2004
Posts: 563
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading my headlights |
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I posted up previously about this, but didn't really mention cost.
I've done the conversion from squares to rounds a couple times, and I usually come out even or ahead. Meaning, I sell the squares and pieces for as much or more than it costs to buy the round pieces.
I sell H4 headlights, so I get those at cost, but even at my retail of $35 (plus shipping) for a pair, it's cheap. You can find H4s cheaper, and you can spend more, but it's almost always under $100. Selling the old squares, even in less than great shape, can make the new H4s free or better.
My latest Vanagon, a 1991, I am keeping the squares - at least for now. I'll probably regret it later, but I don't expect it to be a daily, and plan to augment the low beams (which are pretty bad) with some nice fog lights.
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raoul mitgong
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Joined: July 05, 2009
Posts: 1338
Location: Denver, CO
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading my headlights |
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I currently have an 84 with round and an 86 with square. Both were stock when I bought them, so I thought. I ordered the relay kit for both. I went to rewire the 86 first since they were the worst. I found it had already been done (gave that kit away). Yes, the relayed 86 had worse dim performance than the stock 84. This is a comparison of back to back daily driving for many years.
So, "my" stock 84 dims were much better than the relayed 86 with DOT squares and high wattage bulbs. Brights on the 86 were crap too, can't really compare brights between the two as I rarely have the opportunity to use brights so I won't comment.
I recently installed the 84 relay kit and H4 rounds. Blown away.
Conclusion: The 86 will be downdated to rounds in the future. Ecodes might be great but I KNOW the 7" rounds performance now. No need for the SA grill IMO, although I do like the look.
Another reason to go round: Multiple 7" solutions including many LED options that do not need the relay rewire kit. With square, there are two options, stock DOT or hard to find Ecodes.
-d
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Paulbeard
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Joined: July 10, 2015
Posts: 2604
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading my headlights |
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| raoul mitgong wrote: |
Another reason to go round: Multiple 7" solutions including many LED options that do not need the relay rewire kit. With square, there are two options, stock DOT or hard to find Ecodes.
-d |
This is true, up to a point. There are a lot of options in 7" rounds but I wouldn't call the E-codes hard to find. It really comes down to how much you like the later square within a square look vs the classic rounds. You can do either without any great hassle, especially since other people have already made some of the more common mistakes blazed the path.
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Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
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kamzcab86
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Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 7915
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading my headlights |
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Upgraded stock squares work well enough for me...
^Low beam, 80W
E-codes produce a better beam, but I don't drive the van a whole lot in the dark.
I wish I had a before photo. The headlights, when I bought the van, were so dim I would not have been able to have seen the island curb in ^that photo until I was right at it (and road signs on highway 111 couldn't be seen whatsoever). Driving the van home to AZ led to the headlights being the very first official repair job: clean lenses and reflectors, install relays, clean grounds, install new higher wattage bulbs.
If the squares are ever damaged, I'd most likely replace them with the SA kit so that the lamps are easier and cheaper to replace if one them is ever busted.
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Merian
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Crankey
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Joined: July 11, 2004
Posts: 2656
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading my headlights |
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| tjet wrote: |
That's a great idea.
I went with Rover lamps. They were around 100 euro shipped from Spain, but they are harder to find.
Your Ford housings & H4 lamps are much easier to duplicate.
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I bought these too for some future time. Can you say what you used for the lamp bracket/bucket ? I only have the lamps I think... yeah just the lamp housings but my purchase didn't include the stamped metal mountings with adjusters etc..
Maybe just the original square eye mount to get the adjusters and then modify the rest of it to accept the Rover lamp ?
I just thought they looked cool, but is there any functional benefit ? |
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4Gears4Tires
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Joined: October 08, 2018
Posts: 3018
Location: MD
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading my headlights |
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That looks really good. They came from the Rover SD1? This car?
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Crankey
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Joined: July 11, 2004
Posts: 2656
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading my headlights |
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I don't actually know. First I've seen that car. I assumed they were originally mounted with the lens more vertical because of how the back of the housing is shaped. The first time I saw them installed there was no picture on of the car they came from
Somewhere there is a green van from Europe the owner posted more behind the grill details how it was done and then there's a slammed red junkyard doka with them. That red doka says Bespoke on the side I think.
The lamps are nice, they have fun er strips on the ends that sort of mate with the t3 grill headlight frames.
By that picture you can see the lights are mounted upsidedown in the van from the bevel edge.
I know there are right or left hand drive versions.
"TheSamba.com :: Vanagon - View topic - LT headlights on Vanagon" https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7980857 |
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4Gears4Tires
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Joined: October 08, 2018
Posts: 3018
Location: MD
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading my headlights |
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85-95 Rover Maestro
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Crankey
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Joined: July 11, 2004
Posts: 2656
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading my headlights |
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| Yeah must be that one.. |
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