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lodcomm
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2011
Posts: 32
Location: Ledyard, CT
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 Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 4:14 am Post subject: 85 Westy - older Bus Depot pop-top Canvas installed - TOO TIGHT! |
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Hello Folks,
I recently got around to replacing the pop top canvas on my 85 Westy. I purchased the canvas several years ago from bus depot. it was the stable in strips on the top. The canvas went in relatively smoothly, however it is Much too tight (read as MUCH!) when I attempt to extend the pop-top. I removed the top, and moved the top edge of the canvass as low as possible in the staple strips and reinstalled, and it is still quite a bit too taunt when extending the top. (I can get it up, but requires quite a bit of effort to snap the extension hinge into the lock position, and even more effort (too much) to pop it back out of full open to close the top)
Anyone have any ideas or suggestions on ways to relax or stretch the canvas a bit so it is not so tight?
thanks
-todd |
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Home Team Van
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2008
Posts: 465
Location: wilmington, nc
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 5:43 am Post subject: Re: 85 Westy - older Bus Depot pop-top Canvas installed - TOO TIGHT! |
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I'd just pop the top and leave it up for awhile. Maybe the fabric will relax and stretch enough to make it satisfactory. Mine was pretty tight at first but it did stretch after some use.
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82 Diesel Westy |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9603
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 8:15 am Post subject: Re: 85 Westy - older Bus Depot pop-top Canvas installed - TOO TIGHT! |
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Mine was so tight I thought it would rip if I pushed it overcenter (almost not possible). But I left it up overnight and the next day it was reasonable to go overcenter. But still tight. Now a few years later it's seems "perfect". It certainly doesn't flap in the wind.
Install thread here called "Changed Westfalia canvas tent in 5.5 hours (with photos)"
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Last edited by Sodo on Wed May 11, 2016 7:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jeffrey Lee
Samba Member
Joined: February 04, 2014
Posts: 1488
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 9:18 am Post subject: Re: 85 Westy - older Bus Depot pop-top Canvas installed - TOO TIGHT! |
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Canvas often becomes 'looser' when wet, so try spraying it down with your garden hose while in the upright and locked position. Unless some sort of waterproofing was already applied, this should help stretch out the canvas and make it more pliable, esp. if repeated through a few wet/dry cycles ...
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Camping Tips • Newsletter • Cool Campervan Apparel
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MidwestDrifter
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2012
Posts: 769
Location: Kicking Around Australia
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 9:21 am Post subject: Re: 85 Westy - older Bus Depot pop-top Canvas installed - TOO TIGHT! |
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Wetting cotton fabric (some detergent can help) and then stretching it will make it conform. Do it a couple of times, and hopefully it will fit better. Let it dry completely before releasing it though.
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2004 Dodge/Mercedes Sprinter (Custom Camper)
2000 Jetta TDI
1982 Diesel Westy W/ ABA I4 hybrid (Sold)
Epic Road Tripping since 08/05/12 | http://VagariesAbound.blogspot.com/
My Current Build | http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41215 |
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lodcomm
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2011
Posts: 32
Location: Ledyard, CT
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: 85 Westy - older Bus Depot pop-top Canvas installed - TOO TIGHT! |
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thanks everyone for the suggestions- I will wet it down with a bit of detergent water and let it dry out a few times.
I appreciate all the ideas!
-t |
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raoul mitgong
Samba Member
Joined: July 05, 2009
Posts: 1338
Location: Denver, CO
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: 85 Westy - older Bus Depot pop-top Canvas installed - TOO TIGHT! |
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Be careful zipping and unzipping if it seems too tight. I now partially lower the top before zipping the passenger side due to frequent derailments.
-d
_________________
84 Westy with a 2.1 (Groover)
86 Tintop Syncro (Crow)
86 Tintop Syncro to Westy project (Tom Servo)
91 Westy (Only the top 12 inches of this van (a burn victim)) |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32576
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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lodcomm
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2011
Posts: 32
Location: Ledyard, CT
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: 85 Westy - older Bus Depot pop-top Canvas installed - TOO TIGHT! |
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I did give them a call - I wasn't too pushy because
I nought the canvass like 4-5 years ago and figured the time
for any kind of warranty expectations had elapsed! |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32576
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: 85 Westy - older Bus Depot pop-top Canvas installed - TOO TIGHT! |
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| lodcomm wrote: |
I did give them a call - I wasn't too pushy because
I nought the canvass like 4-5 years ago and figured the time
for any kind of warranty expectations had elapsed! |
The only thought I have is that yes, time lapsed....... But thats real life.
During the time period that you purchased yours was probably during the height of their ill fitting canvas days.
They made good on them then.......
I see both sides of the issue, I really do, but missewn found back then or found to be so today ........ is still missewn.
Maybe I just think funny?
Half of my Van rebuild came from them, I support them and they've been good overall........
(I even started the BusDepot Canvas thread found in the FAQ's awhile back ...... )
Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Last edited by djkeev on Wed May 11, 2016 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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furrylittleotter
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2008
Posts: 1506
Location: West Seattle
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: 85 Westy - older Bus Depot pop-top Canvas installed - TOO TIGHT! |
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I bought a tent from them in that same time period.
What you are experiencing is the exact same thing myself and countless others experienced with the tents from bus depot.
I know for myself they told me nothing was wrong with my tent, it was my fault, their tents were great.
It wasn't until many, many people complained publicly that they finally acknowledged there is an issue.
No refunds, no returns, no discounts on new tents, just acknowledgement.
Meanwhile my tent and screens on tent are ripped garbage now.
Haven't found the need to buy from them since.
Neil2 |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32576
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: 85 Westy - older Bus Depot pop-top Canvas installed - TOO TIGHT! |
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| furrylittleotter wrote: |
I bought a tent from them in that same time period.
What you are experiencing is the exact same thing myself and countless others experienced with the tents from bus depot.
I know for myself they told me nothing was wrong with my tent, it was my fault, their tents were great.
It wasn't until many, many people complained publicly that they finally acknowledged there is an issue.
No refunds, no returns, no discounts on new tents, just acknowledgement.
Meanwhile my tent and screens on tent are ripped garbage now.
Haven't found the need to buy from them since.
Neil2 |
That's interesting, ^^^^^
I was under the impression that they made good on those ill fitting tents.
I of course haven't first hand knowledge and was not part of the community then either.
Are you a one off? or one of a crowd?
I can see why you would be disgruntled........
Dave
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Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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Howesight
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008
Posts: 3274
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: 85 Westy - older Bus Depot pop-top Canvas installed - TOO TIGHT! |
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| lodcomm wrote: |
thanks everyone for the suggestions- I will wet it down with a bit of detergent water and let it dry out a few times.
I appreciate all the ideas!
-t |
Skip the detergent. It will just remove the waterproofing that is on the tent. In addition, because there is no effective way to rinse all the detergent out of your tent, using detergent will also make the canvas attract dirt and humidity. If you were washing the tent in a large washer with the ability to completely rinse out the detergent, then this would not be as much of an issue. I have been there and done that with the expected aggravation. GRRR.
You can easily wet out the tent by spraying with a garden hose outside and using a "windex style" sprayer with water on the inside if the wetting is going too slowly.
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lodcomm
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2011
Posts: 32
Location: Ledyard, CT
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: 85 Westy - older Bus Depot pop-top Canvas installed - TOO TIGHT! |
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| Howesight wrote: |
| lodcomm wrote: |
thanks everyone for the suggestions- I will wet it down with a bit of detergent water and let it dry out a few times.
I appreciate all the ideas!
-t |
Skip the detergent. It will just remove the waterproofing that is on the tent. In addition, because there is no effective way to rinse all the detergent out of your tent, using detergent will also make the canvas attract dirt and humidity. If you were washing the tent in a large washer with the ability to completely rinse out the detergent, then this would not be as much of an issue. I have been there and done that with the expected aggravation. GRRR.
You can easily wet out the tent by spraying with a garden hose outside and using a "windex style" sprayer with water on the inside if the wetting is going too slowly. |
Hi, thanks for the details. I will skip the detergent, I wasn't really going to use much, just a few drops in a couple gallon pump sprayer to break the surface tension of the water. A bit of isopropyl alcohol will do the same and aid in the drying time(s).
-t |
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lodcomm
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2011
Posts: 32
Location: Ledyard, CT
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: 85 Westy - older Bus Depot pop-top Canvas installed - TOO TIGHT! |
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I would love to call and harangue bus depot, especially if it is truly fact that there were defective tops during that time period. Like I said - I bought the thing 4-5 years ago and only recently managed to find the time to install it. In fact, I installed it on the roof section last fall and just this past week got around to attempting to screw in the bottom bead/track which is when I found that it was a bit too "short" and overly tight. I don't even have the receipts from the purchase, or even the box with the shipping label on it, since I tossed all the boxes when I attached the top of the canvas last fall. I assume I am simply SOL!
thanks again to everyone for the suggestions on getting it stretched.
-t |
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Busdepot
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 1309
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: 85 Westy - older Bus Depot pop-top Canvas installed - TOO TIGHT! |
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| Quote: |
I bought a tent from them in that same time period. What you are experiencing is the exact same thing myself and countless others experienced with the tents from bus depot. I know for myself they told me nothing was wrong with my tent, it was my fault, their tents were great. It wasn't until many, many people complained publicly that they finally acknowledged there is an issue. No refunds, no returns, no discounts on new tents, just acknowledgement. Meanwhile my tent and screens on tent are ripped garbage now. Haven't found the need to buy from them since.
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This is simply not true. There was one small batch of poptop canvases that we received from Just Kampers in 2009 - 7 years ago - which were way too small. Not a little too small, way too small. If you got one, you'd know. As I recall you could not even begin to make it reach, it was something like 5 inches too short. Of course we stood behind every one of them and immediately sent them back to the supplier. They were only in the pipeline for a month or so, and there were only about 20 that made it out the door before we discovered the problem. (We no longer carry Just Kampers' poptop canvas so I cannot comment on their quality today. However I will note that we had purchased many previously that fit fine.)
What happened after that - for years - is that anyone who bought any poptop canvas from the Bus Depot of any brand, and couldn't fit it properly, and stumbled on the old Samba thread, insisted that they must have one of those 20 canvases. Even if they were from a completely different manufacturer, or production run, or country, or even decade. As just one example, we got an email from someone in 2014 who insisted he'd just received one of them, even though it was 6 years later, and the one he bought was a genuine Westfalia canvas, not a JK one, and his fit problem related to horizontal fit not vertical. It took a lot of arguing to convince him that his problem had absolutely nothing to do with 20 canvases made 6 years earlier by a different company in a different country. Finally he begrudgingly agreed to pull it out and start again, so he could prove us wrong. And what do you know, it fit! He'd installed it wrong the first time! And this happened more than once. So no, just because someone claimed their canvas didn't fit we did not immediately replace it. But if it really was defective, of course we did (and always will).
Since 2012 we have done our own poptop canvas, which goes through a three step QC process and is individually measured against OE specs. No other poptop canvas goes through that QC regimen. Every single one of them is within the specs of the OEM version, which we also sell. In the last 4 years I believe there have been 3 or 4 that didn't meet specs out of thousands sold - a defect rate that the best German companies would be proud of. Of course this does not stop some people who have trouble installing theirs from claiming a defect, because they'd rather believe that than believe installer error. We generally respond by providing some installation pointers and suggesting that they measure the one they received. If it's too small we will gladly replace it. It almost never is.
The fact of the matter is, installing poptop canvas is tricky, and you have to stretch the material like hell as you go along. Westfalia intended the canvas to be drum-tight, and if yours isn't then it doesn't meet Westfalia specs. Also you have to install it in a particular order - center, then corners, then fill in between. If instead you work your way around you will almost certainly come up short in the end. There is an excellent two-part series of videos on Vimeo that show a professional installing one of our canvases and I highly recommend watching it before doing the work. You can find it at https://vimeo.com/110363454. (However I will add that since then a few customers of ours have commented that they find it easier to do the back and then the front, opposite the order that Kris does it - but still, corners first.)
Lodcomm, I don't have your real name so I don't know offhand what version you bought or when, but if it is not our OEM one and predates our Bus Depot product, then it came from an era where tolerances were a bit looser than they are now. (Something which still applies to most of our competitors, incidentally. Just this evening someone posted a pic on Facebook of his new canvas install of a competitor's product. Nicely installed, but the canvas is baggy as sh*t due to no fault of his own.) It does suck that you waited years to install it, as at this point even if it is below spec we can no longer place a warranty claim with the manufacturer (whoever it may be). I can squeeze a bit of wiggle room out of my suppliers if a product fails shortly out of warranty, but reporting a DOA several years after delivery won't fly with even my most lenient suppliers. Those who suggested stretching it a bit are on the right track. Like I said, these canvases are meant to be drum-tight and it will stretch slightly. I also agree about avoiding using the zippers until you get a bit of stretch if it is indeed that tight. (That should not normally be the case.) If it ends up being too tight to be be workable, and you have to pull it, PM me. I will have you measure it, and if it's below Westfalia spec, if nothing else I can take a bit of a hit myself and give you one of ours for half price to help make things right. But with a bit of stretching you may be fine. Even back then most of them did work, they were just a little too tight or loose more often than I liked (which is why I got fed up and created our own version so I could control it.)
Info on Bus Depot and OEM canvases:
http://www.busdepot.com/details/canvas/
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The Bus Depot
www.busdepot.com |
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Terry Kay
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: 85 Westy - older Bus Depot pop-top Canvas installed - TOO TIGHT! |
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Boy, this certainly seemed to zip the fly on the canvas fitment phenomena. 
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 4:58 am Post subject: Re: 85 Westy - older Bus Depot pop-top Canvas installed - TOO TIGHT! |
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Interestingly enough, I must add that the Bus Depot and Ron have made good on the extremely small fraction of orders or parts that I have had issues with over the 20 years I've been ordering from them.
100% satisfaction here.
I can not say this of other vendors.
Thank you Bus Depot 
BTW, the secret to satisfaction with most vendors is to call them directly, immediately, with the issues at hand...NOT make a forum post about it first |
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Busdepot
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 1309
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 5:43 am Post subject: Re: 85 Westy - older Bus Depot pop-top Canvas installed - TOO TIGHT! |
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| insyncro wrote: |
| Thank you Bus Depot BTW, the secret to satisfaction with most vendors is to call them directly, immediately, with the issues at hand...NOT make a forum post about it first |
Couldn't agree more! I have to say that if someone gives us a public flogging instead of coming to us first, I am much less inclined to go out of my way for them. And it's bad form. If a Samba member's credit card declines or his check bounces we call him directly, we don't post "watch out for so-and-so" on social media.
That being said, the original poster DID contact us first. He said he wasn't very pushy but asked if a 5 year old canvas that fit but was very tight could be exchanged under warranty and was told no. I don't know who he spoke to but I can't begrudge them for that answer. It's years out of warranty so they were just doing their job. As the big cheese I get a little more leeway.  If you ever have an issue that a Bus Depot rep fails to resolve to your satisfaction, ask for the manager on duty, or failing that feel free to email [email protected] with ATTN: RON in the header and I'll review it personally.
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The Bus Depot
www.busdepot.com |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32576
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 6:03 am Post subject: Re: 85 Westy - older Bus Depot pop-top Canvas installed - TOO TIGHT! |
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I understand the warranty time line from purchase date.
The problem I had was that it took me three (3) years to complete my rebuild.
I purchased parts during that three years as I had the cash and some of them sat for literally almost three years before being installed...... Or used.
As a result, when you install the part there is in essence zero warranty on the item.
This is completely out of any retailers ability to control.
It is however a minor frustration.
I'm sure that I am not alone doing this.
If there were only a "put into service date" rather than a purchase date, but hiw do you control that as a retailer?
I did have my brand new made in Germany "last of the good ones" Bosch fuel pump die after 2000 miles of use in Idaho.
I was lucky, it was a fairly recent purchase and squeaked in warranty with about a week to spare!
I did have to buy a Yugoslavian Bosch pump locally however and now carry a brand new uninstalled and untested (and out of warranty) BusDepot last of the "good" German Bosch fuel pump as a spare......
But yes, BD has done well overall (except for folding new radiator hoses to ship) 😉
Dave
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Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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