You Know It's 01P Transmission Rebuild Time When...

[Joshwa]

[Jonwid]

OK just returned from Hf. Mission successful, purchased their last in stock 1T shop crane. Found a $99 coupon on Harbor Freight Coupons On Line.

First time I've tried that website. Their coupons work! The HF clerk said they take coupon numbers and as long as the number works, they'll take whatever it is.

There is also a HF Coupons Facebook Group that posts the latest coupons. Who knew?! Great stuff!

Now I think I need to use a 20% coupon on a $44 cherry picker load balancer from HF, comes with chains.

Recommendations for where to secure chains on the motor & trans to pull it in one unit?

[Joshwa]

From my manual. I'll try and add the series.

_________________
93 Weekender TDI conversion (AHU)
93 MV TDI conversion (1Z)
Weekender rear cot
Late model cabin air filter on 93
Euro spec bumper install on 93

[Joshwa]

This is the general removal items with redirects to the specific group disassembly.

_________________
93 Weekender TDI conversion (AHU)
93 MV TDI conversion (1Z)
Weekender rear cot
Late model cabin air filter on 93
Euro spec bumper install on 93

[Itsamoto]

Not sure how well this helps -- but there should be two engine hoist mounts on the cylinder head, one in the front right, the other rear left. You will need to remove the intake manifold and disconnect from the exhaust (which with was the biggest pain in the ass of the whole thing).

I recommend removing at the downpipe from below the van with a long extension -- there is one nut there that makes it near impossible to get the driver side exhaust manifold off from the cylinder head when its in the van.

[Jonwid]

Many thanks, Joshwa and Itsamoto, very helpful pics there.

I can see how taking engine/trans out as a unit will have many benefits.

I think I might construct a low table or a cradle for the powerplant, something that would assist in separating and re-mating the two units.

What do you estimate that the two pieces weigh?

I assume that to take this all out, the Air Conditioning system (compressor) had to eventually come apart, so I'll need to evacuate the system? Or is there a way to keep the system intact while the motor comes out?

[soissisc]

You can just unbolt the compressor and unhook the electrical and hold it out of the way. Same with the condenser, just secure it out of the way. No need to evacuate the system.
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[jjvincent]

If you have a steel workbench, I suggest just lifting the whole unit up to the point where you can rest just the transmission on the table. Then separate the two and leave the engine on the cherry picker. Plus having a load leveler is a must.

[soissisc]

The hardest thing that I found was that the engine leans forward so much, it was difficult to find the right place for the chains (I did it without a load leveler) to even out the load without it rolling too much one way or the other. Pulling that down pipe off is essential.
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[jjvincent]

There's that tool that VW has for the EV which allows the engine to be leaned way over. I just used a ratchet strap and adjusted it to keep the whole thing at the right angle.

[mvaska]

jonwid, did you eventually find & fix the issue?


i'm experiencing the same thing you describe: shifts from 1st to 2nd are sometimes delayed so that i feel what i'll describe as a short (.5 sec) of "slipping" then BANG! it slams into 2nd.

it's only happened a few (4?) times and only when it's cold but it's violent enough that i have to assume it has or will break something. there are no codes. this isn't hard-shifting, it's a BANG.

oil/filter change less than 12k miles ago. shifted silky smooth until most recent trip where it took some abuse on mtn passes, desert roads, etc. etc.

just put a younger engine in (BDF -> AXK) 6 months ago and i'm _really_ hoping i don't have to pull it all again. so my plan is to first check and rebuild the valve body as you did.

but, i'm reading it didn't actually solve your problem, so i'm worried i'll be wasting my time.

[Jonwid]

mvaska, no I have not had time to get to this project. I've been sidetracked with moving house.

By the Christmas holidays, things may have settled down to the point where I can begin to plan my attack again.

The symptoms on our 01P have gotten to the point that it's not really drivable--something's gonna grenade in the main case. The slipping in 1-2 is to the point that it is causing a "torque converter lockup" malfunction code to set.

I'm pretty sure when I open up I'm going to find the first stage piston/seal is ripped/torn/obliterated and the clutches stripped bare of material. I'll probably end up putting in a new TC also. With all that banging and contamination, that's probably warranted.

How many miles do you have on your 01P? And I wouldn't say you're wasting your time on the VB rebuild. You might get lucky but I doubt it, especially if you're not getting solenoid codes. I'm glad I did the VB anyway. If you're going to end up rebuilding your whole gearbox anyway, then having a go at fixing the VB certainly can't hurt. Who knows, it's possible that a tired/worn VB could be a contributing factor in the first stage gears going out.

But my theory about this failure remains that it is simply an engineering flaw overall to expect that a small gearbox originally designed for a light sedan will be able to launch a heavy van from a stop with out eventually taking a toll on the gear system itself. Yeah, they beefed up the differential section, but so what? The gears are where all the wear and tear are going to show up, especially at the first stage. The least VW could have done was give the van's gearbox a fighting chance with a better cooling system instead of that piddly, good-for-nothing heat exchanger box.

If resources permit, I may even resort to contracting out the 01P rebuild as a "bench job." I was quoted $4K USD for a complete job by a reputable local transmission rebuilder. Maybe a bench job can be had for half that, and then I can just focus on doing the timing chain refresh myself while the gearbox is being overhauled.

[mvaska]

Thanks Jonwid.. really helpful.

To answer your question: 150k on the odometer.

So... Had all the parts for this weekend and dug in. Long story short, went from no code but hard shifts to now having the "torque converter lockup mechanical failure" with all the symptoms: high slip, no 4th.

No shavings inside or outside the filter when I started. But it seemed to me as a high volume of "dust" was over everything (given that I changed/cleaned just 12k miles ago).

I meter tested the solenoids and they all checked out except the pressure control solenoid which ohm-ed at around 23 (vs 4.8ish). I replaced that one with one from a donor (that checked out, of course) thinking I'd probably found my issue. I was also thinking, "easy enough to swap later if nec."

Put it back together.

Here's the weird part for me: it won't go into 1st unless I force it by manually shifting it down. In 1st there is no slipping and it jumps off the line. In any other (D, 3, 2) it will never downshift to 1 and there is high slipping until I'm at speed (charted with vagcom).

I'm pretty detailed and I don't think I messed anything up in the re-assembly. Got the special brushes, all the valves moved really nice.


I can't figure out why I'd go from hard shifts w/o codes to TC lockup and no 1st. Or, really, what I could have done wrong to cause such a difference.

The good news. When it does shift from 2 to 3 it's pretty smooth. Ha.

Theories:

1. I was headed for this and the simple act of working on it just expedited the outcome. (The fluid flush raised a shaving or finally made something else give it up.)

2. The solenoids bench test but actually aren't behaving. This post has me thinking this isn't the case: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=334614

3. I reassembled it incorrectly.

[soissisc]

Did you replace the ribbon cable in the trans? I have heard that the ribbon is basically glass like after so much time in the hot fluid. Maybe it was damaged inadvertently while you were in there? Just an idea.
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[mvaska]

Yes, (forgot to mention) new cable. Every connector in the old one cracked. I might have a few minutes for it today otherwise it'll be a month or so. Either way I'll report back.

[jjvincent]

With the valve body off, you can actuate each clutch pack with compressed air. It might take a few times to figure out which one is what. A rubber tipped air gun works the best. You should hear them clunk on and off when you do it. In the end, the mechanical part of the transmission is not different than one 50 years old.

[mvaska]

thanks jjvincent... That's interesting... I'll have to try that.. because this beast is absolutely coming off again.

(I'm going to start a new thread with a lot more details and some specific questions.)

...but to wrap this up here as promised: The no 1st was because I put the Solenoid Regulator Valve in backwards. Can't explain how/why I would decide to waste half a day. Ha.

Anyways, if you rip everything apart and find later that there is no 1st... Maybe pull #11 and check see if you reversed #9 in this diagram.

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[Jonwid]

So, mvaska, did you get the van back on the ground and take it for a spin yet? Any improvement in the 1-2 shifting?

There's another recent thread talking about when the typical TCU reset procedure (key on, hold WOT 30 seconds, key off) isn't really resulting in an actual TCU reset occurring on account of something referred to as a "throttle kick-down switch" that's failing to work. (I'm seeking specifics on this this thing.)

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=666461

I've always just assumed that my TCU reset procedures were actually successful, but then again, I had no way to actually tell if they were or not.

This would be interesting to verify, especially since it seemed to cure his issues with shifting between higher gears. It's worth a shot. (Though in my case, I know the physical damage is already done to the point that a rebuild is a must.) But a schizo TCU could possibly be a contributing factor to the whole mess. And if you're not actually resetting the TCU because of a simple problem as described here, how would you know the cause?

[jjvincent]

[mvaska]

thanks guys.. running much worse than before the shift kit, solenoid and new fluid. it's tight on 1st and jumps really healthy. false shift into second but it eventually gets there. to 3rd is fine. 4th or going up a hill is nearly full slip. first few min of drive there was shuddering when trying to shift but i'm chalking that up to air in the system as it quickly dissipated.
(full history at the bottom)

right now i'm thinking i should try:

1. TCU not adapting to the new main line pressure solenoid. i too assumed it was successful. TCU not adapting seems consistent with symptoms.
2. i don't have a proper torque wrench to get the VB attached at 44 in. lb. could be that some valves are stuck because of over/inconsistent torquing. i may remove solenoids w/VB attached and test for movement. or buy a freakin' wrench that does inch lb.
3. TCU harness corrosion. check continuity between pins and wires while harness connected. the idea of this give me a headache.
4. new solenoid (or others) are also bad but ohm correctly. replace w/new.
5. switching to valvoline ATF messed everything up. return to OEM ATF.



WHOLE HISTORY BRIEF

- '01 purchased w/138k. new engine and changed transmission oil/filter. all clean. runs great in all respects.
- 145k the transmission goes into limp mode. forced to drive it 50ish miles in limp. several pins in TCU completely corroded off. replaced broken/used pins with unused/good pins. runs like a champ. no codes.
- 147k got bad gas (pretty sure). misfires. bad shifting, limp mode, etc. stuck in White Sands of all places and have to drive for hours like this. grr. check plugs (re-gap) and put in fuel treatment. runs great.
- drive to NYC
- 149k transmission does it's first "bang" shift. drive it gently and eventually got both a 17090 trans range sensor and a 01192 torque lock malfunction. found multi-function switch pin corrosion. cleaned, reconnected and reset. harness side (female) of TCU connect also corroded i notice. no more codes but still "bang" shift if i don't baby it.
- connect vagcom for next outing & monitor the temp. 118ish C in stop & go.
- forced to drive it 240 miles on highway before i can dig in. still no codes. check fluid level and it's about 1L low. yikes. still bad shifts with correct amount.
- pull valve body. solenoid EV6 (N93) main line pressure ohm at 23. i replace it from a donor van that ohms at 5. put in transgo shift kit and new harness. new filter and switched to valvoline synth ATF.
- this is when i mis-installed the Solenoid Regulator Valve... corrected that and checked main pressure valve for movement after installation (because no torque wrench). all good.
- this got me 1st gear back but loss of shifting and full slip on 4th.
- dialed in the boost valve 3 clicks. no change.

FWIW: here's a kick'n reference that i wish i had before i started on the VB. http://vwts.ru/vw_doc2/trans/01m/at_01m_atsg.pdf
also: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=334614