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nemobuscaptain
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 Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 8:55 pm Post subject: Drivers side lower rust repair |
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Folks, I need to do this repair, similar to Ben's photos:
I have no experience with this kind of stuff. I've become convinced that gluing (panel bonding adhesive) the panel is probably ok if I add spot welds along the seam and the bottom.
My question is how does one glue the top, obviously not a butt "weld". It appears Ben is just laying the repair piece on top of the old sheetmetal. Or is that a flange of some sort. Someone suggested a backing strip behind the two to allow me to glue to both the top and bottom pieces.
Thought from you guys who have done this before?
Last edited by nemobuscaptain on Mon May 30, 2016 8:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Terry Kay
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
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I would cut back the repair panel to get it even with the bottom of the body line--as long as you have the same amount of meat the entire length of that panel under as pictured---
Toss the rivets out--too bad you already have the holes drilled.
You'd have one hell of a time filling & sanding that ditch after the fact--
Grind with a 60 grinding wheel & Clean the hell out of both panels where your going to be gluing in-wipe it down with some lacquer thinner--and let it evaporate good.
Now--this is going to be tricky--
Think about Applying the 8115 and leaving a gap every 6 inches--about a quarter inch wide--then more glue--then a quarter inch gap--etc.
Mark the plan on the outside panel edges.
Now --drill a 1/16th hole or a little bigger if you want, where the glue voids are going to be on that panel.
This is where the spot welds are going to be.
Now--apply the glue on the backside of cleaned body area.
Stick it up there, clamp the bottom.
You will have to hold the top flush.
Put a couple of the welds--give it one in the middle---one on each end then work back & forth from the middle to the ends,
the bottom won't move because it's clamped.
Have a wet rag & a bucket of water close by--you want to keep this area cool so it doesn't warp.
When you get the top done, go down to the bottom and work back & forth from the inside to the outside of the panel.
If you watch what your doing and keep the welds as far apart as you can the panel will be straight arrow.
You could stick a couple of rivets in the top holes to hold the panel--but then you'll have to through weld them holes to the inside panel--and that may develop too much heat & cause a warp.
Let the adhesive dry overnight--you should be in like flynn--
Just keep an eye on what you are doing---pay close attention.
One more item you might think about--
On the back side of the panel seam--clean that up the next day with 60 --and lay a nice clean flat seam of the 8115 the length of the inside seam.
Just a little insurance from the back side--to make sure it stays dry in the seam--make sure you don't get any water infiltration.
You can get to it--it won't hurt anything--
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nemobuscaptain
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dobryan
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Terry Kay
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
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Every new vehicle just about on the entire planet has the panels glued and tack welded in the corner's.
It's just the way it is.
I didn't come up with this--it's just the way it's done.
Now--that panel is in the middle of nowhere, and I would highly suggest doing the glue & tack assembly procedure.
He mentioned using glue & tacking, I agreed.
I like overkill, the repair won't ever fail.
The ditch, the inset, the grooved body line where the top of the new panel is in would be a bitch to sand flush, to close up the seam if you attached it there.
It would be higher than the front of it, and the back end of it.
I don't know of any flat air sander that would fit in that 1/4, 1/2" inch groove--this is why I suggested to cut that off and glue it just below that body groove, ditch , whatever.
Be a heck of a lot easier.
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insyncro
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
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Gluing and tacking if you want it to stay put.
Plus, in some areas, tacks are visible and part of the finish structure.
Sure, most just want it done, but a few pay very close attention to the tiny details.
Using Clecos to hold the panel in place while gluing and than tacking/filling the holes for the Clecos is the route I take. |
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bluebus86
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
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do not forget weld thru primers and seam sealers for a water proof job. also you will want to strip the black paint off the new panel prior to painting as more often than not that paint is only put on for rust protection in the warehluse. it may not serve as a good base for you paint, unknown quality and surface prep was done
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nemobuscaptain
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bluebus86
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
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the best way would be to butt weld the top part, and spot weld the lower. on the sides if they gave you a bent edge, then spot weld from inside along the bent lip, esle make a bent lip, 90 degree angle.
as far a grinding, make sure you only grind welds, do not repeat do not thin the sheet metal panel other than scuffing it, sanding only. do not attempt to flare in the new metal with old by tappering it down to level. paper thin body panels tend to fail badly. only grind down your welds, not the panel.
do not forget to blast ans seal any rusty metal in the inner rockers. recommend an epoxy paint like DP for the interior. dont weld thru it, if you can spray after welding with a wand type nozzel thru a drain hole or a hidden hole on underside or van which can be plugged
use high zinc weld thru primer if you lap weld. spray it between the over lapping sheets and allow to dry before welding.
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insyncro
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
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Look at the crimp on the topside of the replacement panel.
It is one way to line it up, the others are at the seams.
The lower portion will need to be cut and fit. |
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nemobuscaptain
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djkeev
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bluebus86
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Terry Kay
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
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Yes.
8115 is the best of the best panel adhesive.
You'll like it--it'll like you. 
I've used the stuff since 1983--since my brother got his "Tang GT's" door bashed by some sweetheart at a bar--
The original door skin was glued on--I ground the inside of the door skin edges off, the old skin fell off, I cleaned up the door edges, and glued it back on--went home.
The next day I prepped if for primer, primed, sanded, based / cleared it, the next day hung it and buffed it out.
Done--and he's still driving it.
The 8115 displaces moisture, no rust anywhere.
Worked well.
However, this repair had a structural framework, and it's all that it needed was the glue.
You've got too long of an expanse , which has no framework on the top , it's kinda flexible up top where you're going to cut it.
Better overkill idea to spot weld it every 6-7 inches along with the 8115.
Believe it or not, the 8115 will draw towards the welded area by the heat.
It'll all be waterproof on the outside, the suggestion of laying a bead on the inside is just overkilling the job quickly to aide in keeping any water from getting close to the repair area.
Insurance if you will.
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nemobuscaptain
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bluebus86
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
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from 3m's website...
"When the manufacturer’s directions are followed, this product can be used to bond door skins, roof skins, quarter panels and box sides. In addition, product can be used for bumper cover repair under certain conditions. Typical substrates include cold roll steel, aluminum, SMC, and FRP.
This product is not intended to bond structural components of a vehicle such pillars, rockers, or frame members.
If doubt exists as to whether a particular component is structural, then that
component should be welded."
Your welding skills will come into play for a strong repair. This is not no Tang door skin repair.
you may want to buy a flanging tool so you can lap the parts over each other, yet keep the exterior all at the same level. the flanging tools are not expensive generally. they make a Z shaped bend on one part that the other part can over lap. thus you will have a fairly well hidden lap joint.
If I was not butt welding it, then I would certainly get a flanging tool on it. the over lapped flange will also add some stiffness to the repair seam.
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Terry Kay
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
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The correct way to do this job would be to replace the entire middle side panel in it's entirety, but this was way prior to Japanese, Taiwanese, Chinese, Indian, or Yugoslavian, Chilean, Mexican punched pressed repair panels.
Make no mistake in assuming whatever is used in this repair process IS NOT anywhere near, or even close to a rocker panel repair section.
It is a cover.
It's a cheap shot imported repair section.
Just like the thing you might call a bumper, it is not at all the rocker stress loaded rocker panel.
Look behind this panel being replaced, look at the pinch weld on the bottom.
There are the load bearing area's , and you obviously being the great , powerful, and all knowing George Barris of Vanagonland should have known all of this.
I shouldn't have had to mention this.
You already knew this, so the blerp regarding the 8115 is now completely null & void.
I am ashamed of you for not bringing all of this up a long time ago, you running that vanagon chop shop out in BFE.
Amazing stuff there George.
So, in leau of JUST using the 8115, spot welds every 6 inches used with, and along to, and also the panel adhesive is more than plenty to get this job done plenty correctly, with a spot weld kicker.
But this was all discussed, and aligned way earlier in this thread before you walked in the door, and accepted.
Thank you for your support.
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avernon82
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
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TK, you keep this forum interesting. Thank you!
I had to look up BFE, gonna use that phrase now. |
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Terry Kay
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
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Where did you find the definition of BFE?
Not Google I hope.
Wrong--it is on Google--
I am shocked as well as appalled!!
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bluebus86
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
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import repair panels on an import van. yikes!!!!!
anyway you do want this repair to be structurally sound. even 3M does not recommend the glue for rocker repair. hence weld weld weld!!!!! dont forget the weld thru primer (for the benefit of terry kay, use the weld thru primer where you weld, not where you glue) this aint no tang gt door skin.
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