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carcrazed
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2007
Posts: 957
Location: Ohio
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 Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 6:46 am Post subject: Tennis Ball Trick and enough gap? |
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I have a 1776cc in my '65 bug and no louvered hood. The engine oil stays pretty cool, but the engine tins get too hot to even touch after a long drive. I currently have a tennis ball propping open my hood on the bottom which does help, but only gives me about 1 1/2" of gap. My question is, should I have a little more or is this pretty much the normal gap with the old tennis ball trick? I am not a big fan of hood stand offs (the looks) of them or I would have had them in a heartbeat! Thanks in advance.
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1965 Herbie Replica. 1776cc dual Kads.
1961 Beetle 33,000 Original Miles
"Just When you think you are getting ahead, you're always wrong." |
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grandpa pete
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 6426
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 7:02 am Post subject: Re: Tennis Ball Trick and enough gap?? |
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theat sounds about right ; on my 63 you can't tell the tennis ball is there .
it concearns me that "you can't touch " the tins . have you tried a meat thermometer in your oil dipstick hole to tell what temperatures you are running .
I was taught that if you can"t hold onto the dipstick your running TOO hot .
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carcrazed
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2007
Posts: 957
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Tennis Ball Trick and enough gap?? |
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Thanks GP! A lot of my problem is I put chrome tins on years ago when I was younger and dumber, but really don't want to have to fork over the money to replace them with stock tins (4 kids eats up all your extra cash). The oil runs cool. I haven't measured the temperature, but I can sure put the oil on my fingers and it doesn't burn 
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1965 Herbie Replica. 1776cc dual Kads.
1961 Beetle 33,000 Original Miles
"Just When you think you are getting ahead, you're always wrong." |
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KPottorff
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2006
Posts: 429
Location: Texhoma
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Tennis Ball Trick and enough gap?? |
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IIRC chrome really isn't the best for radiating heat away. Depending on how ambitious you feel, get the engine out, pull the tins off, buff them really well with an aggressive wire wheel and paint them black with header paint.
Cleanliness is the keyword here. Buffing the chrome plating raises the surface so the paint will adhere but any oil remaining will prevent that. I have repainted exhaust pipes on my old motorcycle and after buffing the surface I used brake cleaner on the surface immediately before painting. So far it has held up. |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Tennis Ball Trick and enough gap?? |
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| grandpa pete wrote: |
I was taught that if you can"t hold onto the dipstick your running TOO hot . |
That is the rule of thumb if you don't have a thermometer. I use the gene Berg thermometer dipstick. it grounds at 240 degrees turning your oil pressure light on.
Also remember when you use the tennis ball to open the lower lid you extract a certain amount of air from the lower engine lid through a vacuum. When this happens it slows down or prevents ( depending on the car speed) pressurized air in the lid from being drawn in to the crankcase by way of the reverse screw on the crank pulley to ventilate the crankcase. Remember air is drawn in at the pulley and exits at the oil filler neck either down the road draft tube or in later cars to the air cleaner. |
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Fred_e81
Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2008
Posts: 60
Location: El Paso, Tx
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Tennis Ball Trick and enough gap?? |
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I didn't have a tennis ball so I cut a wooden valve lapper with suction cups in half. I used the suction cup end on the apron and ran the other end through the deck lid reinforcement. I noticed the difference in temps and the car runs a lot better. I know this isn't a common idea but it worked for me. You can keep cutting the wooden piece for the proper gap. Hopefully this was useful.  |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Tennis Ball Trick and enough gap?? |
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| KPottorff wrote: |
| IIRC chrome really isn't the best for radiating heat away. |
Yup, VW supposedly even sold a kit for arctic climates using chrome tin or valve covers! |
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carcrazed
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2007
Posts: 957
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: Tennis Ball Trick and enough gap? |
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Thanks for the replies. Yes, I know the chrome sucks, but it will have to stay for now. I will try to run with the tennis ball for now and try something like Fred did.
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1965 Herbie Replica. 1776cc dual Kads.
1961 Beetle 33,000 Original Miles
"Just When you think you are getting ahead, you're always wrong." |
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EA812
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2008
Posts: 1223
Location: North central, CT
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Tennis Ball Trick and enough gap? |
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I have the save my bug oil dip stick and with out the tennis ball it alerted my at 70 up hill for a prolonged time my oil was getting warm. Using the tennis ball trick on 90 plus days no problems any more.
That's on a 65 with a 1641 and a 66 with a 1600 that is missing a cooling fin here and there. I try not to run them at 70 on hot days now but the 55 zones around here people Do their usual 80 to 90 mph.
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Tennis Ball Trick and enough gap? |
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| EA812 wrote: |
I have the save my bug oil dip stick and with out the tennis ball it alerted my at 70 up hill for a prolonged time my oil was getting warm. Using the tennis ball trick on 90 plus days no problems any more.
That's on a 65 with a 1641 and a 66 with a 1600 that is missing a cooling fin here and there. I try not to run them at 70 on hot days now but the 55 zones around here people Do their usual 80 to 90 mph. |
Just curious, do you get that foamy stuff at your oil filler cap? |
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EA812
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Tennis Ball Trick and enough gap? |
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Works for me but only needed during August when on high speed drives. But then again I have a late model with a 4 louvered decklid.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Tennis Ball Trick and enough gap? |
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| EA812 wrote: |
| If you mean the moisture from cold weather and short trips yes. But I do my best not to drive short distances anymore. |
If there is a lot of humidity and cold weather and your engine has warmed properly even at cold temperature there should be no foam present at the oil filler cap or baffle area as long as the crankcase is ventilated properly. lifting the engine lid for cooling benefit deprives the pulley / airscrew needed air to be forced into the crankcase. The foam indicates there is moisture, fuel and acids in the crankcase and the crankcase is not venting properly. If you need added cooling like what happened when the factory went to the 1600, add louvers to the top portion of the deck lid to get needed air to the cooling fan.
If at all possible get a hold of the factory books that show where the cooling air is supposed to be going. I can guarantee you it's not supposed to be going out the bottom of the deck lid. |
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EA812
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2008
Posts: 1223
Location: North central, CT
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Tennis Ball Trick and enough gap? |
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| Helfen wrote: |
| EA812 wrote: |
| If you mean the moisture from cold weather and short trips yes. But I do my best not to drive short distances anymore. |
If there is a lot of humidity and cold weather and your engine has warmed properly even at cold temperature there should be no foam present at the oil filler cap or baffle area as long as the crankcase is ventilated properly. lifting the engine lid for cooling benefit deprives the pulley / airscrew needed air to be forced into the crankcase. The foam indicates there is moisture, fuel and acids in the crankcase and the crankcase is not venting properly. If you need added cooling like what happened when the factory went to the 1600, add louvers to the top portion of the deck lid to get needed air to the cooling fan.
If at all possible get a hold of the factory books that show where the cooling air is supposed to be going. I can guarantee you it's not supposed to be going out the bottom of the deck lid. |
The cold weather foam has nothing to do with the tennis ball trick. I assumed it was know I'm not using a tennis ball to cool the car in December at 15 degrees during a 4 mile trip. As for a90 degree day driving there is no foam on the cap or filler.
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Q-Dog
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 8699
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Tennis Ball Trick and enough gap? |
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| Helfen wrote: |
| EA812 wrote: |
| If you mean the moisture from cold weather and short trips yes. But I do my best not to drive short distances anymore. |
If there is a lot of humidity and cold weather and your engine has warmed properly even at cold temperature there should be no foam present at the oil filler cap or baffle area as long as the crankcase is ventilated properly. lifting the engine lid for cooling benefit deprives the pulley / airscrew needed air to be forced into the crankcase. The foam indicates there is moisture, fuel and acids in the crankcase and the crankcase is not venting properly. If you need added cooling like what happened when the factory went to the 1600, add louvers to the top portion of the deck lid to get needed air to the cooling fan.
If at all possible get a hold of the factory books that show where the cooling air is supposed to be going. I can guarantee you it's not supposed to be going out the bottom of the deck lid. |
The tennis ball doesn't let cool air out of the engine compartment, it lets cool air into the compartment. 
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'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Tennis Ball Trick and enough gap? |
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| Q-Dog wrote: |
| Helfen wrote: |
| EA812 wrote: |
| If you mean the moisture from cold weather and short trips yes. But I do my best not to drive short distances anymore. |
If there is a lot of humidity and cold weather and your engine has warmed properly even at cold temperature there should be no foam present at the oil filler cap or baffle area as long as the crankcase is ventilated properly. lifting the engine lid for cooling benefit deprives the pulley / airscrew needed air to be forced into the crankcase. The foam indicates there is moisture, fuel and acids in the crankcase and the crankcase is not venting properly. If you need added cooling like what happened when the factory went to the 1600, add louvers to the top portion of the deck lid to get needed air to the cooling fan.
If at all possible get a hold of the factory books that show where the cooling air is supposed to be going. I can guarantee you it's not supposed to be going out the bottom of the deck lid. |
The tennis ball doesn't let cool air out of the engine compartment, it lets cool air into the compartment. |
That's a good one. |
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FL-Frank
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Joined: August 08, 2015
Posts: 823
Location: Jupiter, Florida
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: Tennis Ball Trick and enough gap? |
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Went for a long ride along the beach today in my '67 type 1 with 1600 SP. slow cruising 35-40 mph. 90 degrees with 70 percent humidity. Had the rear lid propped open with a tennis ball. After 90 minutes driving time, the engine compartment temp was 172 F in the lower front left corner of the engine compartment right next to the engine.  |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11055
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Tennis Ball Trick and enough gap?? |
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The tennis ball is generally enough
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
(Disclamer... I am not a 1930's Volkswagen Automotive Engineer... The statement found in this post are based on my observations and findings of over 30 years of VW repairs, enjoyment and aggrivation.)
The tennis ball on the latch does a few things.
When you're zipping along the air is scavanged through the engine compartment, keeping an abundance of fresh air avaialble for the fan and less heat build up.
When poking along in traffic or slow speeds it actaully allows excess heat to spill out as it rises out of the engine compartment.
The by product of more power ...is heat..
Keep in mind... the later 1600 engines had a larger fan .. thus creating more CFM.. for its larger engine and larger oil cooler.
If the CFM of stock vents under the window were adequate for the larger fan and engine IN ALL CLIMATES that VW shipped and sold to.. VW would have kept the smooth decklid...
The deck lid vents on the Convertibles (Pre 1600 engines) , are borderline enough, but did the job non the less for small displacement engines. 1970 up Convertibles used 4 vent lids..while the Sedans used a 2 vent lid in addition to the body vents.
In addition.. many 1600 engines are "built" with the smaller (1500) fan and smaller oil cooler captured within the air stream of cylinders 3&4..
You cant accurately compare modified 1500 (with 1600 cylinders) engines to true 1600 offset oil cooler engines. If you stuff them both in a 1962 Beetle... the modified 1500 will be a hotter running engine just due to its cooling design..
And they both will be hotter than the 1200 and 1300...
Its hard to compare the heating and cooling of entirely different climates as well.
What may not seem to overheat in Montana may roast in the Alabama summer. |
| grandpa pete wrote: |
I was taught that if you can"t hold onto the dipstick your running TOO hot . |
That method is 150% flawed.....
Not all can sustain the same threshold of pain..
Auto Techs and Chefs have a high threshold of pain in their paws....
Unfortunately I can relate....
What may seem like slightly hot to me.. may cause serious harm and burns to another..
| grandpa pete wrote: |
| have you tried a meat thermometer in your oil dipstick hole to tell what temperatures you are running |
agreed......use an accurate thermometer.....
.
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