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BayCreamPuff Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2015 Posts: 769 Location: Oakland, CA
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 1:24 pm Post subject: 79 CA with Vanagon Federal FI parts |
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After doing some cleanup and maintenance in my engine bay I discovered that my AFM is from an 80 federal Vanagon (280 200 032). I also have an Idle Stabilizer (251 906 083). I believe everything else is stock 79 CA.
I've read Mayor Ratwell's FI Swap post, but don't see anything about this particular setup.
Not sure why or when this decision was made, but the bus runs great, so do I leave it alone or go back to stock?
I know the idle stabilizer is supposed to be bypassed when setting timing on a Vanagon, but is there anything else I should be aware of with this setup?
Thanks!
_________________ Cream Puff
'79 CA Stock FI Deluxe Campmobile
Earl Grey
'87 GoWesty 2.2 Westfalia
Marsha Mellow
'00 Eurovan VR6 Full Camper |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: 79 CA with Vanagon Federal FI parts |
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Looks like a nice tidy install to me.
An upgrade for sure.
Unless some stock-Nazi government bureaucrat has issues with it, you should be fine! _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50261
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: 79 CA with Vanagon Federal FI parts |
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I don't know what the difference in the AFM would be. Maybe a slight difference in the length of the spring or something. If it runs good I would leave it as is. You might go ahead and find a California AFM and have it on hand in case you fail your smog test because of having the wrong part number. |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: 79 CA with Vanagon Federal FI parts |
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IMHO,
Most smog station inspectors want you out of the way so they can go on break, eat lunch, or go home..
If it's clean out the tailpipe, you will most likely pass.
Inspecting part numbers?
That is WAY more work than an employee in California on the clock would ever do.. _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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BayCreamPuff Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2015 Posts: 769 Location: Oakland, CA
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: 79 CA with Vanagon Federal FI parts |
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Wildthings wrote: |
I don't know what the difference in the AFM would be. Maybe a slight difference in the length of the spring or something. If it runs good I would leave it as is. You might go ahead and find a California AFM and have it on hand in case you fail your smog test because of having the wrong part number. |
I actually found one in the classifieds this morning that I jumped on. I assume I would just swap it out with the existing one and bypass the idle stabilizer? _________________ Cream Puff
'79 CA Stock FI Deluxe Campmobile
Earl Grey
'87 GoWesty 2.2 Westfalia
Marsha Mellow
'00 Eurovan VR6 Full Camper |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50261
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: 79 CA with Vanagon Federal FI parts |
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BayCreamPuff wrote: |
Wildthings wrote: |
I don't know what the difference in the AFM would be. Maybe a slight difference in the length of the spring or something. If it runs good I would leave it as is. You might go ahead and find a California AFM and have it on hand in case you fail your smog test because of having the wrong part number. |
I actually found one in the classifieds this morning that I jumped on. I assume I would just swap it out with the existing one and bypass the idle stabilizer? |
If it runs, well as I said above, I would just keep running what you have and keep the Calf unit as a spare. |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7599
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: 79 CA with Vanagon Federal FI parts |
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x2 what Wildthings says. Use it as a back up. Leave well enough alone. Sounds like you already dialed in. _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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zoobum Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2015 Posts: 211 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: 79 CA with Vanagon Federal FI parts |
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Clatter wrote: |
Inspecting part numbers?
That is WAY more work than an employee in California on the clock would ever do.. |
Lol. I had a friend pass smog with his "check engine" light lit. The smog tech, said that he didn't care, the numbers are good enough. _________________ -Zach
1979 CA Riviera 2.0L FI |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12688 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: 79 CA with Vanagon Federal FI parts |
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Ever noticed how easy it is to remove the cover plate and swap it out? If it ever causes issues, check the Bosch stick on the side of the AFM before making any decisions.
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 6:54 am Post subject: Re: 79 CA with Vanagon Federal FI parts |
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The chances of messing up your bus really bad are pretty good with some random used AFM off of the classifieds.
I'll bet you most smog techs wouldn't know where to look to find which part number is supposed to be on your AFM.
Like said before - swap the cover if you are worried about a Smog Ninja.
The risk is not worth it _________________ Bus Motor Build
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BayCreamPuff Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2015 Posts: 769 Location: Oakland, CA
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Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: 79 CA with Vanagon Federal FI parts |
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Also noticed today that the vacuum advance hose that runs to the throttle body and EEC valve is plugged right before the vacuum can on the distributor.
It runs completely fine plugged, removing the plug causes the bus to die after warming up. Think it has something to do with the Vanagon AFM & idle stabilizer? Or maybe just a PO fix for a bad distributor? _________________ Cream Puff
'79 CA Stock FI Deluxe Campmobile
Earl Grey
'87 GoWesty 2.2 Westfalia
Marsha Mellow
'00 Eurovan VR6 Full Camper |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50261
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Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: 79 CA with Vanagon Federal FI parts |
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BayCreamPuff wrote: |
Also noticed today that the vacuum advance hose that runs to the throttle body and EEC valve is plugged right before the vacuum can on the distributor.
It runs completely fine plugged, removing the plug causes the bus to die after warming up. Think it has something to do with the Vanagon AFM & idle stabilizer? Or maybe just a PO fix for a bad distributor? |
Does the California distributor have a double vacuum can? If so when the retard side of the vacuum unit goes back it is common for people to just plug the hose so that the engine will run normally. |
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old DKP driver Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2005 Posts: 4145 Location: Los Gatos,Ca.
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Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: 79 CA with Vanagon Federal FI parts |
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It was common practice to stick a B.B. or something small in the EEC hose back
in day when the idle would not drop. even when most techs were at the dealer.
and did NOT have appropriate knowledge of the system.
Why does my idle hang up on this F-ING bus that's only 1 years old? _________________ V.W.owner since 1967 |
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SlowLane Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 1044 Location: Livermore, CA
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Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:57 am Post subject: Re: 79 CA with Vanagon Federal FI parts |
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Keep using the AFM you have, since it is working well for you.
BayCreamPuff wrote: |
Also noticed today that the vacuum advance hose that runs to the throttle body and EEC valve is plugged right before the vacuum can on the distributor. |
That is odd. The way you have described it, your engine should be getting no vacuum advance at all, which would lead to poor performance.
Quote: |
It runs completely fine plugged, removing the plug causes the bus to die after warming up. Think it has something to do with the Vanagon AFM & idle stabilizer? Or maybe just a PO fix for a bad distributor? |
Like Wildthings asked: does your distributor have a vacuum can with two fittings? If so, then the EEC valve and the advance side of the can (the port facing away from the distributor body) should be plumbed to the vacuum port on the front side (front is front of car) of the throttle body. The other port on the distributor vacuum can is the retard side and should be plumbed to the vacuum port on the rear side of the throttle body. One or both of the vacuum can diaphragms may be leaking, which might explain the deliberate blockage.
Curious, though. Presumably you have passed smog with this setup before, and to do so you would have had to set the timing to factory spec. If that spec is 5 degrees ATDC, I don't know how you got car to run and pass smog with a busted retard diaphragm or a blocked off vacuum advance.
Check Ratwell's vacuum hose page to figure out what goes where.
Do you have an appointment with Colin lined up? He'll be passing through SF Bay area in early August. He might be able to fit you in. _________________ Present:
'81 Westfalia: 2L, manual. Originally Canadian, now Californiated
Back in the day:
'72 Super Beetle
'69 Camper Van - Corvair powered
'71 Window Van - Transferred Corvair from '69
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." - Internet RFC 1925
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance." - Sir Terry Pratchett
Last edited by SlowLane on Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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BayCreamPuff Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2015 Posts: 769 Location: Oakland, CA
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Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:48 am Post subject: Re: 79 CA with Vanagon Federal FI parts |
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Definitely sticking with this weird bus/vanagon setup. The bus runs great and has lots of power, just curious about it.
It's a 79 California with the one year DVDA distributor and special coil. The vacuum can has 2 ports, the single retard line runs to the rear (of car) port on the throttle body. The advance line runs to a 3-way tee, one line to the front (of car) of the throttle body, the other to the EEC valve.
The last 4 inches of the advance line has something jammed inside of it.
It passed smog in 2015 a few months before I bought it from a friend.
Bentley says to time it to 5° ATDC, but my fan shroud has 4.5A painted on it between the 5 and 8 mark on the timing scale. When I time it I just line up the nail polish on the fan shroud and the fan as you can kind of make out in this video.
Link
_________________ Cream Puff
'79 CA Stock FI Deluxe Campmobile
Earl Grey
'87 GoWesty 2.2 Westfalia
Marsha Mellow
'00 Eurovan VR6 Full Camper |
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SlowLane Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 1044 Location: Livermore, CA
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Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:36 am Post subject: Re: 79 CA with Vanagon Federal FI parts |
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BayCreamPuff wrote: |
It's a 79 California with the one year DVDA distributor and special coil. The vacuum can has 2 ports, the single retard line runs to the rear (of car) port on the throttle body. The advance line runs to a 3-way tee, one line to the front (of car) of the throttle body, the other to the EEC valve.
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Betcha dollars to doughnuts that the '80-'82.5 air-cooled California Vanagon DVDA distributor would work just fine in your bus. Don't think that it's necessarily a "single-year-only" item.
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The last 4 inches of the advance line has something jammed inside of it.
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Are you sure that's not just an in-line vacuum connector making up for a shortage of hose length? It's hard to imagine that your bus would "run great" with "lots of power" if the vacuum advance were plugged off and non-operational.
Then again, if it really is plugged off because the advance diaphragm is leaking, then you have an opportunity here to install a non-busted one and discover that the bus can run even greater with lots more power.
Quote: |
Bentley says to time it to 5° ATDC, but my fan shroud has 4.5A painted on it between the 5 and 8 mark on the timing scale. When I time it I just line up the nail polish on the fan shroud
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4.5° is close enough, though a bit odd that the PO would try to be that precise, yet off-spec. CA smog checks for +/- 3° from factory spec so you're golden there. _________________ Present:
'81 Westfalia: 2L, manual. Originally Canadian, now Californiated
Back in the day:
'72 Super Beetle
'69 Camper Van - Corvair powered
'71 Window Van - Transferred Corvair from '69
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." - Internet RFC 1925
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance." - Sir Terry Pratchett |
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BayCreamPuff Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2015 Posts: 769 Location: Oakland, CA
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Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:30 am Post subject: Re: 79 CA with Vanagon Federal FI parts |
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Thanks for the info. You are correct, same distributor through 83.
SlowLane wrote: |
Are you sure that's not just an in-line vacuum connector making up for a shortage of hose length? It's hard to imagine that your bus would "run great" with "lots of power" if the vacuum advance were plugged off and non-operational.
Then again, if it really is plugged off because the advance diaphragm is leaking, then you have an opportunity here to install a non-busted one and discover that the bus can run even greater with lots more power. |
There's definitely something hard inside that last 3-4 inches. It seems like these distributors are pretty hard to come by. I'll be sure to keep an eye out.
SlowLane wrote: |
Do you have an appointment with Colin lined up? He'll be passing through SF Bay area in early August. He might be able to fit you in. |
No, but maybe I should! How does one summon Colin? _________________ Cream Puff
'79 CA Stock FI Deluxe Campmobile
Earl Grey
'87 GoWesty 2.2 Westfalia
Marsha Mellow
'00 Eurovan VR6 Full Camper |
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SlowLane Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 1044 Location: Livermore, CA
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Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:49 am Post subject: Re: 79 CA with Vanagon Federal FI parts |
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BayCreamPuff wrote: |
Thanks for the info. You are correct, same distributor through 83.
SlowLane wrote: |
Are you sure that's not just an in-line vacuum connector making up for a shortage of hose length? |
There's definitely something hard inside that last 3-4 inches. It seems like these distributors are pretty hard to come by. I'll be sure to keep an eye out.
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Hmm, okay, that's clearly a block. So you're getting no vacuum advance at all. Do you know how to perform a simple suction test on the advance diaphragm?
Now, I believe I have a working advance-retard can in my parts box that I pulled from a CA-spec Vanagon. My van uses just an advance unit, so I don't need the advance-retard one.
Quote: |
SlowLane wrote: |
Do you have an appointment with Colin lined up? He'll be passing through SF Bay area in early August. He might be able to fit you in. |
No, but maybe I should! How does one summon Colin? |
One doesn't summon Colin so much as one waits for him to sail through. Start at the Itinerant Air-Cooled Forum. It's now well past the appointment-making deadline, but he seems to have a couple of days to spare in his itinerary around Aug 8 - 13. Whether he's amenable to fitting you in is another question, but yours looks like a nice clean bus that would be fun to work on. _________________ Present:
'81 Westfalia: 2L, manual. Originally Canadian, now Californiated
Back in the day:
'72 Super Beetle
'69 Camper Van - Corvair powered
'71 Window Van - Transferred Corvair from '69
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." - Internet RFC 1925
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance." - Sir Terry Pratchett |
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BayCreamPuff Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2015 Posts: 769 Location: Oakland, CA
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Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: 79 CA with Vanagon Federal FI parts |
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SlowLane wrote: |
Hmm, okay, that's clearly a block. So you're getting no vacuum advance at all. Do you know how to perform a simple suction test on the advance diaphragm?
Now, I believe I have a working advance-retard can in my parts box that I pulled from a CA-spec Vanagon. My van uses just an advance unit, so I don't need the advance-retard one. |
I haven't yet, but I will do that next. If you can find it and are willing to part with it I'd be forever grateful. I'll let you know how the suction test goes. _________________ Cream Puff
'79 CA Stock FI Deluxe Campmobile
Earl Grey
'87 GoWesty 2.2 Westfalia
Marsha Mellow
'00 Eurovan VR6 Full Camper |
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SlowLane Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 1044 Location: Livermore, CA
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Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: 79 CA with Vanagon Federal FI parts |
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BayCreamPuff wrote: |
I haven't yet, but I will do that next. If you can find it and are willing to part with it I'd be forever grateful. I'll let you know how the suction test goes. |
Be careful, there. Forever is a looonnnnggg time.
I'm sure I can find it ... somewhere ... eventually .... I'm not known for my organizational skills.
I was hanging onto it as a backup for my advance-only unit, but it makes more sense to put it to proper use.
Let me know. I have this weekend free if you want to pop over to Livermore. I'll be on call so I need to stick close to home. _________________ Present:
'81 Westfalia: 2L, manual. Originally Canadian, now Californiated
Back in the day:
'72 Super Beetle
'69 Camper Van - Corvair powered
'71 Window Van - Transferred Corvair from '69
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." - Internet RFC 1925
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance." - Sir Terry Pratchett |
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