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Matching vin and engine numbers
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lostarter
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:33 am    Post subject: Matching vin and engine numbers Reply with quote

I read through a few threads mentioning none or very little documentation of this. I have a 1972 safari that has proof it seems. Figured I would add this to the lexicon. Unfortunately the original orange was painted over... But everything else seems to be original. Seemingly only 28,900 miles , I think it was towed around.

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Bruce
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Matching vin and engine numbers Reply with quote

Even though the Mexican authorities are calling your car a 1972, your car is actually a 71. The 3rd digit in the chassis number is what VW used to identify the year.
The true mileage is likely to be much more. The engine case you have is not the original case. But don't change anything. Since the number stamped in the case matches the label applied by the Mexican authorities, you're in compliance of the law (assuming you are in Mexico) where your engine number must match the documents.
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lostarter
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Matching vin and engine numbers Reply with quote

Interesting. Are you saying that the silver sticker with the engine number was added later? Is it not the original engine because no AM in the number? I'm really curious about this and haven't been successful in finding much info.

I bought the car in Texas as a 72. And now have it in Oregon . Should I be calling it a 71 despite the papers? I understood the 3rd number thing but thought it might be made in 71 and actually a 72. Thanks!
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ente_kaefer
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Matching vin and engine numbers Reply with quote

The speedometer appears to be from a 1968 to 1970 VW Bug, as I believe that in Mexico the cars had a speedometer in Kilometers / hour. I had a similiar speedometer in my car, replaced it with a Bug 1970 one in KM/HR. Date/month code should be present on the back of the speedometer.
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Semper_Dad
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Matching vin and engine numbers Reply with quote

lostarter wrote:
Interesting. Are you saying that the silver sticker with the engine number was added later? Is it not the original engine because no AM in the number? I'm really curious about this and haven't been successful in finding much info.

I bought the car in Texas as a 72. And now have it in Oregon . Should I be calling it a 71 despite the papers? I understood the 3rd number thing but thought it might be made in 71 and actually a 72. Thanks!


Silver Sticker was most likely added after leaving the factory as part of the Mexican registration process.

The 181 VIN would technically make this a 1971 model but it was not uncommon for 71 vehicles to be registered as 72s if actually sold in 1972.

An AM engine would have been used in 73 and up 181s bound for the USA. 71s would have been a single port and most likely a different engine code.

There is a table floating around that lists what engine codes went to what vehicles by year. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/engine_letters.php
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lostarter
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: Matching vin and engine numbers Reply with quote

Read though the vin number pages and didn't see any "thing" stuff.

The back of the speedo isn't as easy to check out as it is in a bug haha.

It seems most vw engines have a letter prefix but not mine. Is there a Mexican production list out there?
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oconnell
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Matching vin and engine numbers Reply with quote

all thing engine numbers begin with AM
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Deckard
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:40 am    Post subject: Re: Matching vin and engine numbers Reply with quote

Mexico (and Germany, for that matter) does follow the metric system, so the speedometer is definitely a later addition
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Al Capulco Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Matching vin and engine numbers Reply with quote

I believe there is a engine production chart out there, for all Type 181's. I saw it at the end of one of the many parts manuals. In fact, I think it was in the parts manual that someone was nice enough to post, not too long ago. Anyway, all of the engines listed had 2 letter prefixes.
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SilverThing Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Matching vin and engine numbers Reply with quote

As far as I have seen in official documentation, the 181 had 5 different engines during its production run.

The first engine was a single port 1500cc engine. The cylinders heads were 311.101.353A, which I believe is the same head the 1600 single port engine used (35.5x32 valve size). Compression ratio was 7.5:1. The power output was DIN BHP 44 @ 4000 rpm, 102 NM torque @ 2000 rpm. Carburetor was a 30pict-2 (24mm venturi). Octane requirement: 91 RON. Other interesting tidbits are galvanized pushrod tubes and clutch plates without torsion springs (those two items carried through to other 181 engines). The letter code is 'H', but I like to refer to them as 'H1' engines because the first digit is 1 unlike other H case engines. For civilian models, the engine was only offered in the 1970 model year (ie 8/69 -7/70). Military users continued to get the engine until the end of January, 1971.

The second engine was the 'AG' engine. It was introduced in the 1971 model year (at different times depending on whether the vehicle was military or civilian) and displacement increased to 1600cc. The compression ratio was reduced to 6.6:1 via dished pistons. Power output: DIN BHP 44 @ 3800 rpm, 100 NM torque @ 2000 rpm. The cylinder heads “were like the new type 1/1600”. The intake manifold is the same as the 1300dp engine (31pict-3 carburetor with 25.5mm venturi) and doghouse oil cooler. Octane requirement is 83 RON. The engine was offered until the end of the 1975 model year.

In March/April of 1973 two new engines were introduced: 'AL' and 'AM'. The dished pistons of the 'AG' engine were replaced with slight dished pistons (standard equipment on all other 1600cc engines since Aug 1971). Compression ratio was back up to 7.3:1, power output was DIN BHP 48 @ 4000 rpm, 102 NM torque @ 2000 rpm. The intake manifold was increased in size (35mm – previously 33mm) and the heat risers were also enlarged (24mm from the previous 20mm). The carburetor was 34pict-3 (26mm venturi). Octane requirement was back up to 91 RON (I have one brochure that also mentions 80 MON). 'AM' engines were for US market emissions in 1973 and 1974 (fuel vapor recovery system, dual vacuum distributor, and exhaust gas recirculation). AL engines were available everywhere else for 1973 thru 1978.

In 1974, the 'AF' engine was added to the lineup (or rather borrowed from other lineups). It is listed as a 6.6:1 compression ratio with 46 DIN BHP @ 4000 rpm, and 100 NM of torque @ 2600 rpm. Carburetor is 34pict-3. Octane requirement is 83 RON.


Now with regards to the engine without a letter code: I can't say for sure whether it is factory or not. The 181 that were built in Mexico were initially done as complete knock down kits (that changed sometime after 1974 - anecdotally I have heard 75/76). I don't know how much assembly was required for the knock down kits and I don't know if the factory in Mexico had the flexibility to substitute locally manufactured parts (like engines). Birth certificates from VW are notoriously inaccurate for CKD 181 (this includes US market Things).
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