Check out the ride height of our Syncro - spring rate advice

[Rjhdog]

Check out our current ride height:::

We recently removed our heavy rear setup (GW dual swing outs, Ladder, spare large tire, and Aluminess box) and the rear rose approx 1/2" to settle around 20" from center of axle to fender. The front sits approx around 18.5". I wouldn't mind lifting the rig slightly all around to sit around 19.5- 20" for a touch more clearance and look while not too extreme to wear our CV's.

We are playing around with the idea to tighten up our ride as well as we do 90% pavement driving and 10% off-road (unfortunately!). Looking for a slightly firmer ride to help with cross-wind and additional weight (added pop top recently and other do-dads).

We currently use Burly's front and rear setup:

Eibach 500 rear (non adjustable)/ 450 front with Bilsten coil overs (adjustable)

Our rig weighs approx:
5260 gross wt
2700 rear
2560 front

We are thinking of using 550 spring rate for both front and rear. Would that be too harsh of a ride?

Cheers!

[insyncro]

If you want trouble free, stock height is the way to go.

[hans j]

Based on the math, stock spring rates are perfect. Shocks will ultimately control your van, and too high spring rate will raise your spring frequency, reducing comfort.
_________________
1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181

[Rjhdog]

[Rjhdog]

[insyncro]

Syncro Westys are tough to nail a rate down on in my opinion....variable weights.

But my trusty tintop Syncros.....I have gone down to a 400 in a stripped out base model that carries surf, snow and skateboards with me and my wife.
It feels soft, but there are tricks, spring rubbers, air shocks, limiting straps...all sorts of stuff to customize with.
These are not stock springs but custom springs available in different rates at 25 increments.
I have purchased race lots off eBay in the size I needed and have swapped and swapped and swapped.

Stock is really sweet, almost all the time....for those who don't need an offroad specific van.

If you have talked to Burley about it, as you own some of his products, I would defer to what he recommends.

Christopher at T3technique is another valuable suspension adviser.

FYI, the VW factory spring rates are available in different forums along with the colored markings to tell the differences between them.

I have measured stock springs and most aftermarket years ago.
Most fall within 10-15% of the stock rates.

Testing used springs will still give you a very close to new number, when talking about the rate.

[hans j]

[davevickery]

I personally think 550 is too stiff. I think stock is around 450 or less. I put some 2wd springs in my syncro as a test and it was nice and soft, felt like I was aired way down. But I didn't have a chance to see how it affected handling. I am now looking for softer, not stiffer and may compensate with stiff shocks and new bushings and sway bar. I find it annoying that my van feels every little bump, while my Camry just floats down the road.

I currently have synro.org DP Westy springs and stiff D load BFGs. I have only done a bit of experimenting so far but I have moved from thinking stiffer is better to ..not so much.

[Rjhdog]

460 is stock - so I am dang near close to stock. Hmmm, maybe I don't want to play around too much.

Is 18.5" ride height stock?

Regarding weight in rear:

Perhaps the H6 engine, rear box, the hilift, the maxxtrax, spare 16" tires could be factors.

[hans j]

[ScottShelley]

Hey RJ, I use these, with stock springs, to customize my ride depending on how much I am carrying. Our vans are similar in how they are loaded.

Scott
http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php?main_page=...a853f19fd2

[Rjhdog]

Thanks for all the insight and advice thus far.

This is what I am thinking now:

I will be close to stock height and slightly above stock spring rate.

Ride height in rear is 19" - can't adjust the rear with my current setup. So I will adjust front to match 19".
Rear already has 500lbs springs and it seems fine esp with the added wt in the rear. I will bump up from 450 to 500 in front for a slightly firmer ride. Since stock was 460, I would rather go slightly stiffer than softer from stock. I can be weighted down quite a bit for our big trips.

Does that sound like a good plan without being too extreme?

One further question:

Since I am near stock height my clearance from stock would only be increased by my larger 16" wheels. I am running 225/75/16. For curiosity sake, how much more clearance do I have now compared to stock? I don't know the actual height of stock tires vs mine...

Opinions welcomed. Thanks!

Btw: this is how she looks after a recent bubble bath.

[insyncro]

Suspension feel is very subjective.
I for one look forward to hearing how this setup works for YOU.
I have noted the rates and products used in my extensive notes on the subject.

Please keep us up to date.

Happy trails.

[Rjhdog]

[Christopher Schimke]

[insyncro]

The spring's rate is only one factor that one would "feel" while driving.

My take on suspension has always been that we want ALL of the variables working together, to achieve the "ride" that we like.

When one of the variables is way off the chart in comparison to the others, you will "feel" it.
Some like it, mostly softly sprung vehicles that is.
Yes, the nose will dive, but driving style can make up for that.

Now I prefer stiffer, a very level driving vehicle, no porpoising front ends.
The consistency of the suspension is what I really like.

So, to try and sum it up, each individual part of the suspension must be tuned into the "ride" that you are looking for.

The best way to do this is start experimenting with differing bushings, like the swaybar bushings.
Once you know what you prefer, loose, soft, stiff.....you can try the swaps with other parts and not have to try everything.
If you like a little bit stiffer sway bar setup, I would try stiffing the springs a tad and having the valving of the shocks match the springs.

Hope this helps.

[Rjhdog]

Thanks for the Advice Chris and Dylan - much appreciated.

Guess I will try Chris's new swaybar to stiffen the ride - i have heard nothing but positive reviews on the set up.

I began down this exploration mainly due to the fact that my Burly UCA (early protos) hits the bottom of my wheel well on whoop-dees esp when loaded with gear. It never use to happen prior to my pop-top conversion...

I think the added weight was just enough to allow the UCA to make contact, or my springs/shocks are getting tired...

I am going to pull them off and install a longer bump stop and while I was there look into the possibility of stiffening the ride slightly with stiffer springs...

[tjet]

I put a oberschlachter 35mm lift kit on my rusty syncro. No issues with stock CV's.

here it is with 235/70r15's (28" tall), SA 15x7 steel rims & 35mm blocks.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1497880.jpg


I decided on the lift kit vs lift springs because I didn't want to change the ride quality

[hans j]

As far as sway goes, my soft springs and stiff dampers work awesome. I've driven vans with the T3 sway bar and it helps a great deal as well. I just have a factory syncro sway bar on mine and have very little sway and dive while braking.

My suspension passes the girlfriend test too. She often writes in our journal and crochets while we are on all types of roads, including dirt. My suspension is firm, but not jarring unless I hit a large pothole or some expansion joints. And even when that happens, my shocks immediately control the van and stop any after bounces. It feels a little bit softer than my Audi S4 with Bilstein PSS9 coilovers.

I usually run my BFG's at 38psi or so on the highway and 22ish on dirt roads.
If you ever pass through SLC, I'd be happy to take you for a drive!
_________________
1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181

[insyncro]