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Vanillagurilla
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2017
Posts: 1061
Location: California
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 Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version |
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| Why didn't you go link/king pin? More travel and you obviously have the fab skills to do it. The bottom of my doors are rusted like yours but I'm not about to get that job and I don't have the coin to fix it, I think if the door falls off I'll weld them shut like the duke boys lol |
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Vanillagurilla
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2017
Posts: 1061
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version |
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| Dark Earth wrote: |
Now for the right side.
The initial angle reading, with the spring plate off the stop, was 13.5° ( the left side was 16.9° at this point )
I did the same thing on the right side as the left, setting the spring plate in place clocked one spline downward on the outer splines leaving the torsion bar inner splines alone. This time I got a different result.
The angle finder read 21.6° and my target was 24.7° to match the left side. So, I needed to preload the torsion bar approximately 3.1° more.
Using the following info ...
The chart shows that if I want to add 9° of preload I just rotate the torsion bar one spline on the inner end, or, if I want to add 8° 10' I'd just clock the spring plate one spline down. But, what if I need to add less than 9° or 8° 10' ( I needed 3.1°)? Well, in that case I'd need to rotate the torsion bar inner splines (counter clockwise on the right side) and also dial back the spring plate an equal number of splines.
Here's the left torsion bar before I did anything ( For comparison ).
And, here's the right torsion bar before I did anything.
According to the chart, I needed to rotate the right torsion bar four inner splines ( counter clockwise on the right side ), so that's what I did.
Then, I just installed the spring plate dialed back ( clockwise on the right side ) four splines.
All that's left now is to take the spring plate back off, grind a 3/8" notch in it, install it just like I did on the left side, and this job is done.  |
Are these angles going to work with the stock cv joints? |
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Dark Earth
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version |
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| Vanillagurilla wrote: |
| Why didn't you go link/king pin? More travel and you obviously have the fab skills to do it. The bottom of my doors are rusted like yours but I'm not about to get that job and I don't have the coin to fix it, I think if the door falls off I'll weld them shut like the duke boys lol |
I think the ball joint front end will be more than strong enough for my needs, although I think the link/king pin front end is ultimately stronger. I don't plan on doing any heavy off-roading. I'll mostly use it on the street or light trails.
I believe most bugs get that rust at the bottom of the doors. I think it's because the hood rubber gets knocked off and the water goes right in that catch basin behind the hinges. Throw in some dirt and debris and the water sits in there for a long time.
You could always throw patches inside the fender wells. Mine had them and the doors still worked.
There are times I want to get another body that's straighter and less rusty, but I'll stay with what I have for now.
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My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version
~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~  |
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Dark Earth
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version |
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| Vanillagurilla wrote: |
| Are these angles going to work with the stock cv joints? |
I think once I ground 3/8" notches in the spring plates, I put the trailing arms out of the stock cv joints angle limits. I'm gonna go with Thing or Bus cv joints.
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My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version
~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~ |
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Vanillagurilla
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2017
Posts: 1061
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:54 pm Post subject: Re: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version |
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| Dark Earth wrote: |
| Vanillagurilla wrote: |
| Are these angles going to work with the stock cv joints? |
I think once I ground 3/8" notches in the spring plates, I put the trailing arms out of the stock cv joints angle limits. I'm gonna go with Thing or Bus cv joints. |
Roger that. I have some spare double plates I plan on notching along with some trailing arms that have the shock mounts welded to the top of the arm over the bearung housing. Just have to strap it up at max cv angle for type 1 or maybe go to 930cv joints but that gets expensive, $500 or so to do it right. I'll see what I can get with 24 degrees total on the stock cv them go from there. I'm also keeping my eye out for a link pin beam because I do go offroad alot and could use the travel. |
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Dark Earth
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:16 am Post subject: Re: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version |
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| Vanillagurilla wrote: |
| Dark Earth wrote: |
| Vanillagurilla wrote: |
| Are these angles going to work with the stock cv joints? |
I think once I ground 3/8" notches in the spring plates, I put the trailing arms out of the stock cv joints angle limits. I'm gonna go with Thing or Bus cv joints. |
Roger that. I have some spare double plates I plan on notching along with some trailing arms that have the shock mounts welded to the top of the arm over the bearung housing. Just have to strap it up at max cv angle for type 1 or maybe go to 930cv joints but that gets expensive, $500 or so to do it right. I'll see what I can get with 24 degrees total on the stock cv them go from there. I'm also keeping my eye out for a link pin beam because I do go offroad alot and could use the travel. |
I set my spring plates at 24.7° to begin with, but If I want more I'll crank it up another 3.3°. I'm not really sure how spring plate angle translates into cv joint angle. I just kinda figured I'd be out of the stock cv joints range after notching my spring plates.
This link has some good info on cv joints ...
http://www.blindchickenracing.com/How_to/CVJoints_Axles/cv_joints_101.htm
If I remember correctly, dustymojave said to first measure the angle of the cv joint flange on the transmission, then measure the angle of the axle and combine the two measurements to get the actual cv joint angle. Another tip I read on TheSamba was to grab the axle at full droop and see if it will slide freely between the cv joints.
I basically decided to allow myself some leeway before even mocking anything up. I bought some cv joint axle assemblies from the thing shop. They were advertised as actual Thing/181 cv joints, so they should be good for 22°. Worst case scenario they're Bus cv joints which come in at 17°. We'll see what happens when I go to put it together. That won't be for awhile, though 
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My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version
~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~ |
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cbeck
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2014
Posts: 2495
Location: high ridge, mo
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:31 am Post subject: Re: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version |
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When I was trying to determine how much I could notch, I also took readings at the stub axle . Stock arms seem to lean in the top of the tire, may create more angle than at the drive flange.
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My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779 |
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Dark Earth
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:42 am Post subject: Re: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version |
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| cbeck wrote: |
| When I was trying to determine how much I could notch, I also took readings at the stub axle . Stock arms seem to lean in the top of the tire, may create more angle than at the drive flange. |
Thanks cbeck !! That's a good point. I'll be sure to measure the angle of the stub axle flange too.
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My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version
~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~ |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:44 pm Post subject: Re: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version |
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YES!!! You MUST measure both inboard and outboard CV angles. And the outboard is more likely to be problematic.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Dark Earth
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:31 am Post subject: Re: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version |
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| dustymojave wrote: |
| YES!!! You MUST measure both inboard and outboard CV angles. And the outboard is more likely to be problematic. |
Awesome. Thanks dustymojave !! When I finally get around to installing my trailing arms and axles, I'll definitely pay close attention to both cv joint flanges.
Good stuff Vanillagurilla, cbeck, and dustymojave !! I learned something more because of this discussion.
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My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version
~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~ |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version |
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You're welcome. You seem to learn pretty well judging from your progress so far.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Dark Earth
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version |
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| dustymojave wrote: |
You're welcome. You seem to learn pretty well judging from your progress so far.
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Thanks dustymojave !!
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My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version
~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~ |
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Dark Earth
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:49 am Post subject: Re: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version |
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I didn't have to grind the inside of the upper trailing arms because the seal isn't affected by the weld.
I covered the torsion tubes, to protect the bearings, and tacked the gussets in place.
I welded the beam up, about 1/2" at a time to keep the heat down, alternating outside to inside. I used every bit of the extra 1/4" of rod length I added .
After welding everything up, I spray painted the beam and arms and put the front end back together. I put anti-seize in the grub screw holes and tightened the grub screws down. I put loc-tite on the part of the grub screw that sticks out and tightened the jam nut ( Hat tip to dustymojave ).
I didn't torque the ball joint nuts. The Bentley service manual says not to re-use the self-locking nuts. When I get some new ones, I'll torque them down. The spec is 36-51 ft.lbs.
Now I just have to finish the other side and I'll be done with the front end for awhile.
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My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version
~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~ |
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veeweeman
Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2009
Posts: 940
Location: New Port Richey, FL
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version |
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| Nice job...I also see you got really good penetration on your arm stops, well done. ..now all you have to do is finish repairing the body rust....do you have much more to do still on the body? |
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Buggeee
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 4407
Location: Stuck in Ohio
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Dark Earth
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version |
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| veeweeman wrote: |
| Nice job...I also see you got really good penetration on your arm stops, well done. ..now all you have to do is finish repairing the body rust....do you have much more to do still on the body? |
Thanks veeweeman !! See, I listen  . I still have the passenger side wheel well to do. I'm in no hurry to get back to it either.
| Buggeee wrote: |
| Thank you for posting your work on those travel limiting stops with such clear pictures and the details. Kind of you to pass along the knowledge. I'm no welder but to me those strings of beads you are dropping along look fantastic. |
Your welcome Buggeee !! I try to include information and pictures I couldn't find myself while researching how to do it. I appreciate the compliment.
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My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version
~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~ |
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tobiism
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2004
Posts: 502
Location: Chandler AZ
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version |
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looking good! I'm almost at that point where I have to set up my hook and Rod stops.
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"There has never been a genius without a hint of madness."
-Albert Einstein |
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Dark Earth
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version |
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| tobiism wrote: |
| looking good! I'm almost at that point where I have to set up my hook and Rod stops. |
Thanks tobiism !! I'm watching your build. I want to see what yours looks like when it's done.
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My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version
~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~ |
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Dark Earth
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:52 am Post subject: Re: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version |
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Not much of an update, but I bought some M12x1.50 nylon lock nuts and M12 hardened flat washers. I installed the washers and nuts on the ball joints and torqued them to 45 ft-lbs.
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My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version
~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~ |
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Dark Earth
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version |
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Since I notched the spring plate 3/8", I wanted to check the center to center measurement of the rear shock mounts. To do this I had to re-install the rear trailing arm. The measurement was 16 3/4". The rear shock measurement is 16 1/8".
I plan to raise the lower shock mount bolt hole 3/4" which adds in a 1/8" buffer.
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My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version
~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~ |
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