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77 bay stopped running?
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cdolsen1
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 bay stopped running? Reply with quote

Why classic points instead of electronic ignition?
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cdolsen1
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 bay stopped running? Reply with quote

just checked the timing again. it is at 7.5-8at idle and goes to 32 at high throttle. I this normal? I've read that it should not go past 28.
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 bay stopped running? Reply with quote

Hoses on or off?
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timvw7476
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 bay stopped running? Reply with quote

cdolsen1 wrote:
Why classic points instead of electronic ignition?

Just a quick way to test the solid-state ignition by substitution, lots
of pointless distributor operators have discovered loose magnets making a
mess of their antique bus engine performance.
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cdolsen1
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:56 am    Post subject: Re: 77 bay stopped running? Reply with quote

Ok, I'm back to working on the bus.
I'm still at a point of frustration.
It was able to run about fifteen miles fine and then die. Seemed flooded and would start back up about 5 minutes later.
I moved the timing from 8 to 11 BTC. (with hoses on)
Fuel pressure is at 32psi
Now it seems to run better, but if I park for longer than 15-20 minutes it will chug once and not start for about 8 hours. (can smell fuel like its flooded)
I have been told the cold start valve and the temp II sensor could be bad. I have disconnected the cold start valve and it makes no difference. it also seems to be running rich.
What else can I check?
Thanks
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cdolsen1
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:00 am    Post subject: Re: 77 bay stopped running? Reply with quote

Could the distributor be bad?
I have a very weak spark and the plugs are black.
I have gone to one level hotter plug with no change.
I do have a flamethrower coil in place with accuspark electronic ignition.
Would the pertroniks distributor work with fuel injection?
Many people say yes but the company says no.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:42 am    Post subject: Re: 77 bay stopped running? Reply with quote

Rig up a way to ground out the wire running from the computer to the TSII sensor, this will take the TSII out of the system. I leave a little pigtail with a spade connector attached to the engine case just for this purpose, if the TSII goes bad I can move the wire over to the ground and be back in business in minutes.

If you remove the center wire from the distributor and set it 1/2-5/8" from a ground will the spark jump the gap? If so you coil and ignition unit should be fine. Have you done a careful inspection of your distributor cap and rotor to make sure nothing is amiss?

Have you added any kind of conditioner to the fuel? If I let an engine sit for the winter, come spring, I add a bottle of 2-cycle oil (or other upper cylinder wall lube) to the fuel.
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Tcash Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: 77 bay stopped running? Reply with quote

Could you answer some previous questions?

I do have a flamethrower coil in place with accuspark electronic ignition.
What model # AccuSpark and which Flamethrower coil? Did these problems start after you installed these?

Any idea where to get the heat sensor?
It is a TSII (temperature sensor two) and 70% of the time this is what causes fuel mixture problems.
http://www.jbugs.com/product/311906041A.html

busdaddy wrote:
Step 1 is test yours just in case: http://www.ratwell.com/technical/TempSensorII.html

What where the test results? Or did you skip this?

Wildthings wrote:
Sure the electrical plug is firmly fitting into the AFM?

Did you check this?

timvw7476 wrote:

it may be time to put classic points & condenser on it & see what happens
when it reaches proper temp 10-15 miles down the road.

What about this?

I've read that it should not go past 28
That is with the hoses off. Do you have one or two distributor vacuum hoses?

Good luck
Tcash
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cdolsen1
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 bay stopped running? Reply with quote

Put the wire from the sensor to ground.
Oil pressure light came on
Removed center wire put 1/2" out.
White arch.
will change cap and rotor

pure new 87 octane gas.
3.0ohm flame thrower
accucheck has no numbers.

Still working to bring it out of sitting for ten+ years (behind the barnfind)
I was told it was parked for the same reasons back in the day.
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walterdartt
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 bay stopped running? Reply with quote

I would replace the cylinder head temp sensor, also known as temp sensor II. I was having the same issue and when i replaced this sensor over cylinder # 3 it went away. i hot an extra for my tool box.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 bay stopped running? Reply with quote

cdolsen1 wrote:
Put the wire from the sensor to ground.
Oil pressure light came on


Sure you are dealing with the correct wire here? The TSII sensor is hidden just forward of the #3 intake manifold flange. Sounds like you grounded out the wire to the oil pressure switch as doing so will make the oil warning light come on.
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Tcash Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 bay stopped running? Reply with quote

Put the wire from the sensor to ground.
Oil pressure light came on

That is the oil pressure switch that turns the idiot light on in the dash.

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TSII (temp sensor two) looks like this
http://www.jbugs.com/product/311906041A.html

Make sure the TSII connection in the head is clean and tight.

busdaddy wrote:
Step 1 is test yours just in case:
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/TempSensorII.html
You need to test or replace the TSII. In your case, I would suggest just changing it. If it turns out not to be that, throw the old one in the glove box and you have a spare for when it does fail.


Last edited by Tcash on Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:25 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Tcash Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 bay stopped running? Reply with quote

Removed center wire put 1/2" out.
White arch.
will change cap and rotor

White arch is not good. Should be blue.
When you pulled the coil wire out of the center of the dist. cap. You took the cap and rotor out of the test. So it will do you no good to change the cap and rotor.


timvw7476 wrote:
it may be time to put classic points & condenser on it & see what happens
when it reaches proper temp 10-15 miles down the road.

Do you have the oil points and condenser to put back in?
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Tcash Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 bay stopped running? Reply with quote

3.0ohm flame thrower. accucheck has no numbers.
The 3.0ohm coil is ok to use with the AccuSpark electronic points.
There is a procedure to test the coil ohm readings in Accuspark's fitting guide.
http://www.accuspark.co.uk/fitting_guide.html
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Tcash Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 bay stopped running? Reply with quote

With Fuel Injection all your wire connections and grounds need to be clean and tight.

Try cleaning the ground under the plenum. Next to the Thermal time switch
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Remove the battery ground and clean the battery cable connections on both ends.
Clean the ground strap from the transmission to the rear suspension.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 bay stopped running? Reply with quote

Quote:
I did have fuel and fuel pressure.


Is this because you have a full time fuel pressure gauge on it that you can read when it dies?

FWIW either the TSII being loose or bad can cause your problems - so can a bad electronic ignition. I've had 3 electronic ignitions go bad on me during my life and in all 3 cases they acted like the car was running really rich.
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cdolsen1
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 bay stopped running? Reply with quote

ok. I finally found the correct sensor. I tried to remove it and it fell into my hand. It was sitting in rust. What does this screw into? should I be concerned?
I did wire the lead to a ground and engine seems to run much better.
I'll have to drive it and see how it works.
Thanks for the help

What would cause the spark to be white, not blue?
maybe check it the dark?
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:48 pm    Post subject: Re: 77 bay stopped running? Reply with quote

cdolsen1 wrote:
ok. I finally found the correct sensor. I tried to remove it and it fell into my hand. It was sitting in rust. What does this screw into? should I be concerned?
I did wire the lead to a ground and engine seems to run much better.
I'll have to drive it and see how it works.
Thanks for the help

What would cause the spark to be white, not blue?
maybe check it the dark?


You need to see if the threads in the heads are shot or not, it sounds like they might be. If the threads are shot, you must either use a repair insert of some kind or relocate the sensor. If you decide to relocate it, the equivalent hole to the rear of the flange for the #4 intake manifold runner is the easiest location to deal with on most engines. To the rear of the #2 intake runner would be the other suitable location.
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cdolsen1
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:15 am    Post subject: Re: 77 bay stopped running? Reply with quote

[quote="SGKent"]
Quote:
I did have fuel and fuel pressure.


Is this because you have a full time fuel pressure gauge on it that you can read when it dies?

Yes, I installed a pressure gauge in line to take out the guessing.
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Tcash Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: 77 bay stopped running? Reply with quote

cdolsen1 wrote:
ok. I finally found the correct sensor. I tried to remove it and it fell into my hand. It was sitting in rust. What does this screw into? should I be concerned?
I did wire the lead to a ground and engine seems to run much better.
I'll have to drive it and see how it works.
Thanks for the help

What would cause the spark to be white, not blue?
maybe check it the dark?


Did you have a chance to inspect the threads in the hole yet?
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