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MsTaboo
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4087
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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 Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:38 am Post subject: Re: Volkswagen Westfalia Joker 16" original does this exist? |
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It would be interesting to know for certain if this van is a real 16" or a converted 14". The internal bracing on the 16" was supposed to prevent that buckling.
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RobT
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Volkswagen Westfalia Joker 16" original does this exist? |
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I thought I'd poke my head in since mine was mentioned by westybob. It's not a poptop but it is indeed a factory documented syncro 16" Westfalia Club Joker and believed to be the only factory Club Joker high roof in existence. The Club was a special package of extras and upholstery materials over the standard Joker. A Dove Blue syncro 16" high roof standard Joker came over on the same boat as mine in 2012. As an aside, I'm considering selling my Club Joker if anyone's interested. Not cheap but a bargain considering what it is. PM for details. Rob
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svxcarat
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2009
Posts: 127
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: Volkswagen Westfalia Joker 16" original does this exist? |
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This is an original 16 pop top westfalia owned by a friend of mine. |
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Jeroen_M625
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 74
Location: Breda (NL)
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:10 am Post subject: Re: Volkswagen Westfalia Joker 16" original does this exist? |
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| Microbusdeluxe wrote: |
Ms. Taboo's white high-top has moved south of the border (Canadian) to reside at my house. It is indeed a factory Westy 16. I also know of a blue and white high-top 16 that is somewhere on the East Coast, I was looking to buy it when the Taboo machine came on the market.
I also saw an orange one from the Netherlands on a website that I think was a factory Westy pop-top. |
No that one was an original 16" Kombi or Caravelle, with a Westfalia Mozaik roof installed.
Originally you ordered a camper with the 4wd options. So there was Joker and Club Joker, later replaced bij California and Atlantic. Without decals it is hard to see difference between Joker and Club Joker, since some standard Club Joker items (i.e. electric mirrors, square headlights and thermopane windows) were also optional on Jokers. The same can be applied to the Californa and Atlantic. Both have the thick bumbers (black, Atlantic optional in color), but the Atlantic has also the side boards (beplankung).
Club Joker and Atlantic were quite expensive
16" package was expensive
So on previous pictures I see some quite exclusive campers... |
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Jeroen_M625
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 74
Location: Breda (NL)
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:39 am Post subject: Re: Volkswagen Westfalia Joker 16" original does this exist? |
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The syncro with the key-hole wheels has some none original combinations (but which van owner doesn't improve their van  ). I.e. Club Joker seats with the aerodynamic roof top. The thermopane vented rear window with the popout window in front and the sliding window.
@SVXcarat: The wheelarc fenders in the rear in combination with the thick rear bumber is a combination I have seen before, but never in detail. The wheelarc is about one inch longer, curious about how that is solved. Could you make some photo's next time? |
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matzmann
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2015
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:29 am Post subject: Re: Volkswagen Westfalia Joker 16" original does this exist? |
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| MsTaboo wrote: |
It would be interesting to know for certain if this van is a real 16" or a converted 14". The internal bracing on the 16" was supposed to prevent that buckling. |
The bracing does not prevent the bending. I have/had two 16ers with the same problem and saw a lot more. The sidepanel is glued to the subframe in that area and that connection becomes loose.
Pic of another Joker 16, mine 
Facebook link with aprox. 13 Joker 16 Syncros for members. 9 Pop-Top, 4 High Top. Most of them confirmed to be original.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/290335019939/10153...0027145682 |
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OddN
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2010
Posts: 690
Location: Northern Norway
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:18 am Post subject: Re: Volkswagen Westfalia Joker 16" original does this exist? |
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| Jeroen_M625 wrote: |
@SVXcarat: The wheelarc fenders in the rear in combination with the thick rear bumber is a combination I have seen before, but never in detail. The wheelarc is about one inch longer, curious about how that is solved. Could you make some photo's next time? |
I would be very interrested in seeing how that is solved as well. And also how the rear part of the front wheelarches corresponds with the side cladding.
I am pretty sure that combination was never offered from the factory so the bumpers/side panels are probably added later (if the van is indeed an original 16 inch).
I have added big bumpers to my syncro, and so far I have just moved the rear bumper to the rear in order to clear the rear wheelarches. Not the optimal solution.
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1991 VW Multivan syncro 1,9 TD |
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matzmann
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2015
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:50 am Post subject: Re: Volkswagen Westfalia Joker 16" original does this exist? |
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[quote="OddN"]
| Jeroen_M625 wrote: |
I would be very interrested in seeing how that is solved as well. And also how the rear part of the front wheelarches corresponds with the side cladding.
I am pretty sure that combination was never offered from the factory so the bumpers/side panels are probably added later (if the van is indeed an original 16 inch).
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Why don't you ask himself?
http://www.tristar-connection.de/kontakt/kontakt.php
All 16 inch Jokers were build to special order, so noone seems to be able to tell whats original and whats not. Mine has some strange extras as well. I fell over that van a few years ago and was shortly thinking about buying it, it was first or second owner and as far as I remember already equipped like it's looking yet. I got over it as I wanted a high-top rather than pop-top. Took a few years but you get what you want. |
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OddN
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2010
Posts: 690
Location: Northern Norway
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Volkswagen Westfalia Joker 16" original does this exist? |
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[quote="matzmann"]
| OddN wrote: |
| Jeroen_M625 wrote: |
I would be very interrested in seeing how that is solved as well. And also how the rear part of the front wheelarches corresponds with the side cladding.
I am pretty sure that combination was never offered from the factory so the bumpers/side panels are probably added later (if the van is indeed an original 16 inch).
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Why don't you ask himself?
http://www.tristar-connection.de/kontakt/kontakt.php
All 16 inch Jokers were build to special order, so noone seems to be able to tell whats original and whats not. Mine has some strange extras as well. I fell over that van a few years ago and was shortly thinking about buying it, it was first or second owner and as far as I remember already equipped like it's looking yet. I got over it as I wanted a high-top rather than pop-top. Took a few years but you get what you want. |
I wasn't aware that the owner svxcarat refered to was in fact Tristar Connection. Cannot fint the van on their website though...
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1991 VW Multivan syncro 1,9 TD |
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matzmann
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2015
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Volkswagen Westfalia Joker 16" original does this exist? |
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| OddN wrote: |
I wasn't aware that the owner svxcarat refered to was in fact Tristar Connection. Cannot fint the van on their website though... |
She'll never sell it that's what she said last year, that's why it's not on the homepage. |
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Jeroen_M625
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 74
Location: Breda (NL)
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: Volkswagen Westfalia Joker 16" original does this exist? |
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[quote="OddN"]
| matzmann wrote: |
| OddN wrote: |
| Jeroen_M625 wrote: |
I would be very interrested in seeing how that is solved as well. And also how the rear part of the front wheelarches corresponds with the side cladding.
I am pretty sure that combination was never offered from the factory so the bumpers/side panels are probably added later (if the van is indeed an original 16 inch).
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Why don't you ask himself?
http://www.tristar-connection.de/kontakt/kontakt.php
All 16 inch Jokers were build to special order, so noone seems to be able to tell whats original and whats not. Mine has some strange extras as well. I fell over that van a few years ago and was shortly thinking about buying it, it was first or second owner and as far as I remember already equipped like it's looking yet. I got over it as I wanted a high-top rather than pop-top. Took a few years but you get what you want. |
I wasn't aware that the owner svxcarat refered to was in fact Tristar Connection. Cannot fint the van on their website though... |
Me neither. But it being one of Lars' cars explains a lot to me. I do not know him in person, but a friend of mine does and knowing some other part suppliers: slaugher a lot of cars and keep the most exclusive parts for your own cars. If that one is a real 16" Westfaia, then it is definitely be rebuild with parts from other cars, since it has not original combinations. |
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matzmann
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Joined: June 15, 2015
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Volkswagen Westfalia Joker 16" original does this exist? |
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| No it's not. It was equipped that way before they bought it. Even with the keyholes wheels, what made the car a bargain at that time. |
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Jeroen_M625
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 74
Location: Breda (NL)
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Volkswagen Westfalia Joker 16" original does this exist? |
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| Then the PO was a good parts collector. |
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OddN
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2010
Posts: 690
Location: Northern Norway
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Volkswagen Westfalia Joker 16" original does this exist? |
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| matzmann wrote: |
| No it's not. It was equipped that way before they bought it. Even with the keyholes wheels, what made the car a bargain at that time. |
If so, it would be even more interresting to know its origin and history.
The roof "spoiler" thing was available on Jokers/Club Jokers if you ordered the van with the original sun roof. On Atlantic/California the spoiler was standard both with and without sun roof.
Keyhole wheels was an optional extra on the Tristar, so definitely possible to have ordered on a new 16 inch as well. Or they could be a dealer installed option.
But the thermo window in the rear combined with the sliding window in the door doesn't make sense... I assume the sliding window is a later add-on.
And the big bumpers, side panels and corresponding under bumper spoiler also is a very strange thing to order on a 16 inch when new, and would require VW to really scratch their heads as to how to comply with that order, so I keep on assuming those were added by one of the previous owners with some fiber glass skills...
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1991 VW Multivan syncro 1,9 TD |
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matzmann
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Joined: June 15, 2015
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: Volkswagen Westfalia Joker 16" original does this exist? |
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The rear windows could be ordered from westfalia and were standard on the Atlantic. Don't know of the sliding window, but saw them on some Jokers.
Last edited by matzmann on Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jeroen_M625
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Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 74
Location: Breda (NL)
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Volkswagen Westfalia Joker 16" original does this exist? |
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| The vented isolated rear window is indeed atlantic(1989>), the sliding window is a 1/3 black frame tinted one from california (1989>). The seats are club joker (pre-atlantic, <1989). |
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matzmann
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Joined: June 15, 2015
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: Volkswagen Westfalia Joker 16" original does this exist? |
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| As I said they were made to special order, my Joker is equipped with California Interior, could be retrofitted but who can tell. |
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matzmann
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2015
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Volkswagen Westfalia Joker 16" original does this exist? |
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| As I said they were made to special order, my Joker is equipped with California Interior, could be retrofitted but who can tell. |
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Jeroen_M625
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 74
Location: Breda (NL)
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Volkswagen Westfalia Joker 16" original does this exist? |
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| Well VW used to empty old stock on new models, so, a <85 door on a >85 model was possible. But other way around is not very likely (you can's sell a new model if it has no new items compared to the old one). Since California is successor of Joker it is very unlikely that the velours seats were offered as an option (fabric options were very limited) for a joker. Retrofitted is then more likely and is quite common over here. |
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matzmann
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Joined: June 15, 2015
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:27 pm Post subject: Re: Volkswagen Westfalia Joker 16" original does this exist? |
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| Jeroen_M625 wrote: |
| Well VW used to empty old stock on new models, so, a <85 door on a >85 model was possible. But other way around is not very likely (you can's sell a new model if it has no new items compared to the old one). Since California is successor of Joker it is very unlikely that the velours seats were offered as an option (fabric options were very limited) for a joker. Retrofitted is then more likely and is quite common over here. |
That's not 100% right, the California is indeed the "newer" model, but they were build parallel. Same with the Club Joker, you could still order it in 1989. So if your wallet was big enough it was no problem for VW/Westfalia to give you what you want and the fabric was there.
Dutch pricelist 11/1989
http://www.westfaliat3.info/Nov_1989_Joker_California_Atlantic_Pricelist_DutchWM.pdf |
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