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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15297
Location: Deep in the 405
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 Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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The Samba has never really been that deep into transaxles. IF you really want to learn the most you can about them you need to go here. I spent several week reading. http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewforum.php?f=50&sid=80fa1480a8ac20bfabdeb274364d10d2
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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Casting Timmy
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2012
Posts: 1221
Location: Kansas City, Kansas
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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| glamis dunes and ultimate aircooled have good transaxle stuff as well |
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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8501
Location: PNW
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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8501
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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Another good quote for trans codes
| Bruce wrote: |
Prior to 1969 model year there was only one letter, A. After that came the two letter codes followed by a sequence number. It wasn't until early in the 1973 model year that the numbers became the date of manufacture.
When VW went over 9,999,999 in the trans code, they went to 0,xxx,xxx. |
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kenkeri
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2016
Posts: 1
Location: Grants Pass, OR
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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| OK, so I have searched the forum, and the Samba web-site but I can not find any info on my transmission. The number under the case #113-301-134 does not have any letters, it's stamped into the transmission #4768923. Don't hate me, but it's on a sand rail. My engine is AH398689 and I found everything I need for that, but not for the tranny. Unfortunately, I do not have the original vehicle VIN. Any help, advice is appreciated. |
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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8501
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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| Daniel G wrote: |
T1 Tranny ID Number Late
Located on the side opposire from the fill plug.
Daniel |
T1 Tranny ID Number Early
The number on the pad will tell you what the transmission originally was but there is no telling if it still has its factory internals
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AlteWagen
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Location: PNW
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Hustlers67
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2011
Posts: 263
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:33 am Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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| Are the gears and r&p (basically the guts) of a swinger interchangeable with an IRS transaxle and vice versa? |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26776
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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Yes and no
yes the main diff is the diff. Many combinations are possible. Any swing trans could be made IRS,
Clearly a single side cover case, can't be made swing, but you can take the majority of the parts out and put them into a swing case, and make it work, that's pretty much what a lot of folks do.
Different year parts won't be be interchangeable because over time they made changes to pretty much every part at one point or another between the beginning and the end, but most of them can be made to fit somehow, with enough modification. |
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AlteWagen
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Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8501
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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Thought this was a good reply to a bus box question
| Lind wrote: |
I drive a stock 61 bus with a stock transmission and a strong 40hp 1200cc engine. It cruises at 62mph all day long. It will do 67mph on the flats with no wind. I use a GPS for my speeds.
I like to thing of things simply as a + or - from stock. + is more power/speed and - is less power/speed. Speed is limited by the gearing and power is available relative to the gearing. The more +s from power only mean more acceleration until you put it behind more gearing. Pretty basic and straight forward.
power side:
40hp to bigbore 40 is +1
40hp to 1500/1600 is +2
40hp to 1776 is +3
40hp to 2000 is +4
smaller tires are +1
speed side:
4.375 to 4.12 is +1
4.375 to 3.88 is +2
4.375 to 3.44 is +3
1.4:1 to 1.26:1 is +1
.82 to .89 is -1
bigger tires are +1
you always want to have equal or greater power than stock. I.E. make sure your power pluses are greater than or equal to your gearing pluses.
To answer your questions, going with a 40hp engine, you are limited to stock gearing (4.375 X .82 X 1.4). If you go up one step to a bigbore 40hp then you can go one step with gearing or tires. Stepping up to 6.70s or 215/75s or slipping in a set of little-bignut gears are the easiest way to go. If you go with a stock transmission, you can easily go two steps up with the little-bignuts and tires and keep your current engine which will still be overpowered. Then when you decide to put the 40hp in, just swap the tires, and put the stock gears in the boxes and you are good to go without having to unbolt your reduction boxes.
you can do a lot of math with gear ratios and such. Just make sure your power to gearing ratio is equal or greater than stock and you will be fine. Excess power is over-rated. It mainly translates to more acceleration which doesn't do much for you once you are at speed. You will have to go into third gear on hills. Each + in the power department is just 100 more yards up the hill before you shift into third.
if you are unfamiliar with the little-big gears, they are what was used in 1963 1500cc buses. They have the same ratio as bignut gears, but they fit into small nut boxes. You need to put a spacer under the axle nut to make it work.
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Casting Timmy
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2012
Posts: 1221
Location: Kansas City, Kansas
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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| Hustlers67 wrote: |
| Are the gears and r&p (basically the guts) of a swinger interchangeable with an IRS transaxle and vice versa? |
If you are just talking about 1-4...you can swap stuff from 61-79 but have to exclude the 091 stuff. The 091 they made the gears wider on 3rd and 4th, first gear idler is used on earlier stuff with some mods....the 091 second gear idler uses a small bore than the other stuff.
61-79 you have the following for 1-4
3.80 mainshaft with a threaded end and a clip on the end (both use a key for the 3-4 hub)
3.78 mainshaft has a splined hub for 3-4, but these are ground down to convert to early stuff. ( I would consider to save the cost of converting or getting a new gear carrier at the expense of a weaker keyed hub connection)
3.80 idlers
early swing had a narrow gear and shorter engagement, these make great paperweights
late swing and early IRS they made the gear teeth wider and also had better engagement (thrust surface with and without oil groves based on pinion bearing)
3.78 idler
Everything had this one from 73-75 and then after 76 everything but the 091.
2.06 idlers
early swing had that shorter engagement
late swing and everyting after except 091
Not sure if it was a different part number or not, but they did vary the hub teeth on these. Some the teeth were all even and others had fat and skinny teeth.
3rd's
Before 71 all were course tooth and had the thrust face on the hub, most had a 1.26...but some had a 1.22 or a 1.32 ratio. (I sometimes like getting an early swing box for the 1.32 third, buses sometimes had a 1.22 to make a short gap between 3rd and 4th)
72 non-bus transaxle started getting fine tooth gears which are better thought of as low lose gears. (Same tooth grind depth as the 091's, just a narrow version)
73 saw 002 gears come out with bus gears being factory welded and everyone else getting factory brazed, these take a different slider but have better engagement and don't pop out of gear like the earlier 113 style.
76 the 091 got it's own gears as they were wider, but everything else stayed 002.
4th's are the same story but different ratios.
113's are more common in .89 (fine and course) and .82
002's are more common as .82 in bus and .89 and .93 for non bus
002's have the better engagement, but for some reason didn't take off as well in the aftermarket. I assume the rest of the world staying with the 3.80 first probably stayed with 113 gears and that's why you can easily get new 113 hubs and not 002.
3rd and 4th synchros were 110degrees on early stuff and 120 on later, 120's have to be used even if you have a good early slider as they don't sell 110 anymore.
113 and 002 big nut pinion bearings were discontinued long ago, but the 091 bearing can be used instead. I really wish they still made that 113 big nut pinion bearing as it used that early thrust washer that kept the bearing race from breaking/ exploding. Some convert first gear idler and race and use a shorter bearing to add the thrust washer back for off road with the 091 bearing.
4 bolt style pinion bearings now have plastic bearing cages, but assembly is preferred by some and you get to keep that early thrust washer.
If mixing parts, either the 1st gear idler or a thrust washer must have oil groves!! |
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AlteWagen
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Joined: February 23, 2007
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Location: PNW
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lightice
Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2012
Posts: 599
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:51 am Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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Just acquired a H code transmission out of an aussie country buggy.
It has RGBs and some mods to fit it into the country buggy chassis which can be removed to use for bus.
it is a large nut, but to be honest no idea what the ratios were/are.
Are the 4.12 or 4.37 R&P boxes a better fit for our buses?
I am putting in a single port 1600. |
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nz fish
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2015
Posts: 37
Location: WELLINGTON NEW ZEALAN
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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| hi will a 1300 dif work ok in a 1600 gearbox ?? thanks |
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dlearl476
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2008
Posts: 82
Location: Las Vegas, NV. USA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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Can anyone possibly shed some light on a swing arm transaxle I have. The pictures are a little unclear but the cast numbers are:
38
113-301-103
H
The mystery for me is the RR 11 SS hand stamped in the rib adjacent to the starter motor.
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dlearl476
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2008
Posts: 82
Location: Las Vegas, NV. USA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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| Damn, I just noticed the "G" hiding there by the starte bolt. |
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15297
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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113.301.103 is just the VW part number for the case and has no meaning what is inside or what year it is.
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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busey
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 420
Location: Sun City Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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Here i have a Rhino Case Swingaxle and an IRS Case Swingaxle. The ribs on the Rhino Case (left) are beefier all around.
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busey
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 420
Location: Sun City Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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| Hustlers67 wrote: |
| Are the gears and r&p (basically the guts) of a swinger interchangeable with an IRS transaxle and vice versa? |
Ive actually got an IRS case [RIGHT] converted to swingaxle. It has a 3.88 R&P and 3.80 1st which i was told was the "Super Beetle" set-up. How much stronger over an earlier stock swingaxle it is , i honestly dont really know  BUT it sounded good being that its "Super"  . The swingaxle trans on the left is a "Rhino" case and you can see that one is built differently.
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busey
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 420
Location: Sun City Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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Check out all that meat all along the top of the Rhino Case. Both have holes (arrows) at the base of the bell housing.
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