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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8503
Location: PNW
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 Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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The thing to remember on the rhino case is that it was made for a reduction box axle. Because of that all the reinforcement ribs are on the top of the case, on a non reduction box application all the force is exerted on the BOTTOM of the case. This is why you see drag boxes with large gussets welded to the bottom of the case even if it uses a rhino version.
I have not seen any new mag rhino cases for a few years only the aluminum 'white rhino'. Im wondering if the aluminum is stronger than the mag since Ive heard of the mag cases suffering accelerated wear on the bearing bores.
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spize909
Samba Member
Joined: February 26, 2010
Posts: 349
Location: Upland CA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:46 am Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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Does anybody have the physical outside key measurements for the 091 transmission? Does some kind of document exist? I searched on here some and didn't see anything.
Thanks |
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15308
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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| busey wrote: |
| Ive actually got an IRS case [RIGHT] converted to swingaxle. It has a 3.88 R&P and 3.80 1st which i was told was the "Super Beetle" set-up. How much stronger over an earlier stock swingaxle it is , i honestly dont really know BUT it sounded good being that its "Super" |
Somebody sold you a bunch of BS and took your money.
There is no difference between the swingaxle case and the double side cover IRS case. It is just a matter of what they put inside and which side covers they use.
The 3.80 1st gear is the weaker 10 tooth mainshaft. The 3.78 is the stronger 9 tooth mainshaft. '71-'72 Super Beetles used the 3.80 and '73 & later used the 3.78. Again, there is no transaxle parts that were only used in Super Beetles. The same 1st gear was also used in standard Bugs, Ghia, Things, Type II and Type III.
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busey
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 420
Location: Sun City Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| busey wrote: |
| Ive actually got an IRS case [RIGHT] converted to swingaxle. It has a 3.88 R&P and 3.80 1st which i was told was the "Super Beetle" set-up. How much stronger over an earlier stock swingaxle it is , i honestly dont really know BUT it sounded good being that its "Super" |
Somebody sold you a bunch of BS and took your money.
There is no difference between the swingaxle case and the double side cover IRS case. It is just a matter of what they put inside and which side covers they use.
The 3.80 1st gear is the weaker 10 tooth mainshaft. The 3.78 is the stronger 9 tooth mainshaft. '71-'72 Super Beetles used the 3.80 and '73 & later used the 3.78. Again, there is no transaxle parts that were only used in Super Beetles. The same 1st gear was also used in standard Bugs, Ghia, Things, Type II and Type III. |
Yes, I was swayed when i heard "Super" Beetle. 
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busey
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 420
Location: Sun City Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| busey wrote: |
| Ive actually got an IRS case [RIGHT] converted to swingaxle. It has a 3.88 R&P and 3.80 1st which i was told was the "Super Beetle" set-up. How much stronger over an earlier stock swingaxle it is , i honestly dont really know BUT it sounded good being that its "Super" |
Somebody sold you a bunch of BS and took your money.
There is no difference between the swingaxle case and the double side cover IRS case. It is just a matter of what they put inside and which side covers they use.
The 3.80 1st gear is the weaker 10 tooth mainshaft. The 3.78 is the stronger 9 tooth mainshaft. '71-'72 Super Beetles used the 3.80 and '73 & later used the 3.78. Again, there is no transaxle parts that were only used in Super Beetles. The same 1st gear was also used in standard Bugs, Ghia, Things, Type II and Type III. |
vwracerdave, quick question on those not so "Super" after all transmissions. Realistically, how much HP can a freshly rebuilt IRS double cover swingaxle with a 3.88 R&P, 3.80 1st, Sway Away Race axles, Berg Traction bar and rubber mid mount handle?? (It will be in a 59 weekend warrior Beetle, BUT keeping in mind not to pop the clutch at every stop light and of course avoiding the dreaded wheel hop).. Thx in adavance...
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15308
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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There is no way to rate how much HP a transaxle can take. It all depends on how you abuse it.
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
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busey
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 420
Location: Sun City Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| There is no way to rate how much HP a transaxle can take. It all depends on how you abuse it. |
Sounds Good. The trans shop mentioned it would be good to about 100HP. The Sway Aways i just happen to have laying around in an older trans so i figured, why not use them .
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26787
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:48 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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It's not really fair to rate a transmission in Hp.
Engine torque and tractionXweight is what matters, and the clutch.
In a bug you will be going so fast as to be nearly airborne before you overheat the transmission with horsepower. |
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busey
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 420
Location: Sun City Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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| modok wrote: |
It's not really fair to rate a transmission in Hp.
Engine torque and tractionXweight is what matters, and the clutch.
In a bug you will be going so fast as to be nearly airborne before you overheat the transmission with horsepower. |
Good to know as i will be mating said rebuilt transmission to a 10-1 2332cc.
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tdubz510
Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2019
Posts: 54
Location: CA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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So, I'm thinking of buying a 59 Kombi that lives in flat Florida, that I want to turn into a West Coast camper/tourer.
I live in NorCal and want to be able to get to the mountains and National Parks and hot springs and such....you get the idea..not a flatland cruiser!
I want a very dependable, strong bus that will be moderately loaded down with a SO33 style custom interior for long spring and summer road trips.. 
Bus as is has been modified to a stock 73 type3 squareback transaxle, a very dependable 1600 beetle engine built on a fuel injected block...
I don't know the ratios in the transaxle..and I don't know crap about engines and transaxle ratios you guys were speaking of earlier to be honest!! lol
I'm thinking of going up in engine size to 1835.
I got a recommendation for an engine upgrade from a builder of engines:
a super street 1835cc full flow engine with 92mm thick walled pistons, a counter crank, stage 1 clutch, and A1 exhaust.
Think this is a good power upgrade with said 73 transaxle for my camper/touring plans for this bus?
Should this transaxle the PO has put in need to be changed for better torque in some mountain roads??
Thanks for you help!! |
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busey
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 420
Location: Sun City Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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Calling all Mathmeticians, Calling all Mathmeticians! i have a couple of gear combinations i need 4th gear RPMs for....
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busey
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 420
Location: Sun City Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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What would RPMs be at 70 mph with these 3 combos>>> 4.12 R&P and .89 4th / 3.88 R&P and .89 4th / 3.88 R&P and 1.04 4th. 
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nz fish
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2015
Posts: 37
Location: WELLINGTON NEW ZEALAN
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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| AlteWagen wrote: |
Focus will be on Type I swing and IRS from 61-79 and Type II from 61-67 EXPORT (U.S.), other markets varied considerably. I wont go into 60 and earlier split cases, 68 and later bus boxes, automatics, or autosticks as those should be topics all to themselves.
Additional info on available gear ratios both stock and aftermarket will also be discussed as some regular posters seem to cut and paste their response to “freeway flyer” questions without giving any usable information beyond stating that it’s a marketing term originated by a now bankrupt business.
Sorry still no trans code listing but since the majority of axles you will come into contact with today are far from virgins The likelihood of the components being what the were when they left the factory is very low which makes the codes virtually useless.
Pics have been collected from various sources, ads, gallery, google images etc. If your pic is used and you wish it to be removed just let me know and Ill find one to replace it or list owner info if provided.
This other transmission thread has been going on for some time now with great info but since its in the offroad forum many don’t even know it exists.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=143138
Ill copy the basic identification info from the first post here as the pics and descriptions are pretty good and add a bit more specific data that people seem to ask for over and over.
Identifying VW Transaxles
Type I 1960 and earlier AKA split case
Type I 1961-79
Swingaxle 1961-1968
1961-1966
Short/Short axle
4.375 r&p
3.80 1st
2.06 2nd
1.32 3rd
0.89 4th
1967
Short/Long axle
4.12 r&p
3.80 1st
2.06 2nd
1.26 3rd
0.89 4th
1968
Long/Long axle,4 lug brakes
4.12 r&p
3.80 1st
2.06 2nd
1.26 3rd
0.89 4th
...hi i have an AO gear box out of a 70+ karman is it right i dont need the o ring ( ...cheers fish
| joescoolcustoms wrote: |
Three sets of axles for a type one swing axle:
Short Axle / Short Spline up to 1966. 3 5/16 inch from bearing sholder to spline end
Long Axle / Short Spline 1967 only. 3 15/16 from bearing sholder to spline end
Long Axle / Long Spline 1968 only.
Two sets of axle tubes:
Short tube 3 3/8 inch from spring plate mounting surface to backing plate mounting surface
Long tube 4 5/8 from spring plate mounting surface to backing plate mounting surface
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AutoStick
1968-197?
IRS-Early Dual Side Cover 1969-1972
1969-1972 Beetle
4.12 r&p
3.80 1st
2.06 2nd
1.26 3rd
0.89 4th
1971-1972 Ghia
3.87 r&p
3.80 1st
2.06 2nd
1.26 3rd
0.89 4th
IRS-Late Single Side Cover 1973-1979
1973-1979 Beetle
3.87 r&p
3.78 1st
2.06 2nd
1.26 3rd
0.93 4th
1973-1974 Ghia
3.87 r&p
3.87 1st
2.06 2nd
1.26 3rd
0.89 4th
*Note: The one on the left is from '75-up, and the one on the right is from '73-'74. As far as I know they are the same except for the case differences.
Found in the '73-up Bug. They have a 3.88 R&P ratio.
Type II 1961-1967
Swingaxle with Reduction Boxes
1961-1963
Small nut (36mm) reduction box 1.39:1 ratio
4.12 r&p
3.80 1st
2.06 2nd
1.22 3rd
0.82 4th
1963
One year only "1 ton" brakes with 1500 engine
Small nut 1.39 or 1.26 with 1500 engine
4.12 r&p
3.80 1st
2.06 2nd
1.22 3rd
0.82 4th
1964
Big nut (46mm) reduction box 1.26
4.12 r&p
3.80 1st
2.06 2nd
1.22 3rd
0.82 4th
1965-1966
4.37 r&p
3.80 1st
2.06 2nd
1.22 3rd
0.82 4th
1967
4.37 r&p
3.80 1st
2.06 2nd
1.26 3rd
0.82 4th
*NOTE
Optional "Alpine" or "Mountain" gearing in the early small nut reduction box was available at a 1.60 ratio. More common in European market but sometimes seen here in the states. 55mph @4000 rpm with stock tires? You might have mountain gearing in them there boxes!
Type II 1968 and up
The first Bus IRS trans in 68 is called a 113 type Bus trans. Same for those up to 71. This is because all the parts associated with the 4 forward gears and reverse are exactly the same as what are found in a Beetle 113 trans. Exceptions are gear ratios and tooth configuration.
Then in 72, the 002 Bus trans came out. The individual gears were all completely re-designed and are called 002 gears. These were used to the end of 75. Beetle gearboxes with only one side cover also use the exact same 002 Bus type gears.
The 002...Aka the 3-rib
*Note: The earlier 3-ribs have no mounting ears on top of the bellhousing, axle flange retainers attached by acorn nuts, and a shorter input shaft (for the T1 engine). There's more info the early models posted below the pic. They have a 5.38 (Also 5.42, but it is pretty rare) R&P ratio.
The 002 5-rib
*Note: Even though the 5-rib has a few different components than the 3-rib, it's still classified as a 002.
Found in '74-'75 Bus. They have a 4.86 R&P ratio.
The 091...Aka the 6-rib
Found in '76-'79 Bus. They have a 4.56 R&P ratio, and are considered to be the strongest stock VW transmission.
091-Side Shift
*Note: This is the one that can be converted to nose shift.
Essentially the same as the Bus 091 and can be converted to nose shift.
Found in '80-'83 Vanagons with the T4 engine.
091-Mid Shift
*Note: This one cannot be converted to nose shift.
This may actually be an 094 instead of an 091, but I haven't verified this yet.
Found in '83-up Vanagons with the Wasserboxer engine.
Bus/T3/T4 Automatic
This one happens to be a late Bay or early Vanagon. Note the shifter on the right side. Early ones had the shifter on the left.
094 Synchro 4x4
*Note: I don't know much about this one, except for the fact that they are pretty rare. However, they have a locking differential that can be made to fit in an 091 or 002 (More on this later).
Found in ??-?? Synchro Vanagons.
Vanagon Diesel
No information available at this time.
edit: removed "super"
edit: added swing axle length info |
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VOLTWAGEN
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2014
Posts: 118
Location: Perth, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:19 am Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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.editied.
Last edited by VOLTWAGEN on Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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VOLTWAGEN
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2014
Posts: 118
Location: Perth, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:42 am Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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.edited.
Last edited by VOLTWAGEN on Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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costonjs
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2015
Posts: 196
Location: lawrence, ks
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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| AlteWagen wrote: |
| I saw this list in another thread thought I would add it here even though there are some inconsistencies against factory literature for late split trans. |
thanks for posting that list. i have a .74 gear in my transmission and was wondering where it came from. it appears that the answer is transform.
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74 std beetle grey w/ factory sunroof 2016cc |
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Casting Timmy
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2012
Posts: 1221
Location: Kansas City, Kansas
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| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:44 am Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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Here's a video showing the difference between some of the first gear idlers, you can see the difference in thickness. The gear cut difference between 3.8 and 3.78 ratios makes a huge difference on strength. The early 6V swing boxes had the weaker first gear cut as well as a thin idler.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC5H_AWgMfs&t=105s |
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FRNKNSTNGHIA
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2010
Posts: 411
Location: Kissimmee, FL
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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| So what the specs for the 1970 Ghia IRS with 1600 Single Port? Didn't see 1970 listed. |
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15308
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:47 pm Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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All Ghia's '70 & earlier were the same as a Bug. Only the '71 & later Ghia were different
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
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Chickensoup
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 5368
Location: Good Hope, GA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Official WTF Transmission do I have/should I get thread |
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Hey there,
I have a 66 type 1 transaxle and a 75+ irs type 1 transaxle. Is it possible to swap the R and P from the irs into the swing axle? Or can I put the swing axle differentials in the irs? The goal is to have the lower gears and still have a swing axle Trany.
Thanks |
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