What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal?

[67rustavenger]

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someone who doesn't know, can't tell the difference between good advice and bad advice, FWIW. Thirsty Horses.
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[67rustavenger]

[Howard 111]

The VW Official Service Manual states, SAE 30w only, 158 degrees at 2500 rpm.
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[mark tucker]

Ive never observed higher than 180 on mine with synthetic or semi syn oil.I think it's probably ok like that as I dont have any thermostat flapers doohickeys.

[Starbucket]

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There's a ton of bad advice dished out on any forum. To an ignorant soul, it all looks the same as the good advice. And good advice looks like nothing special.

Another common situation is someone asking the same #)$*&#)& question over and over, until they get the answer they want to hear.

[rugblaster]

For years I used Castrol dino products in my VW's. I have become convinced synthetic is the way to go. I have European cars that specify Mobil 1, so I use that in those cars.

I just read an article by Lake Speed Jr. who works for Joe Gibbs Racing. He was writing about PAO (poly alfa oleifin) oils and how they used Chevron-Philips to formulate a oil not commercially obtainable. He stated NASCAR teams routinely run at 280 to 300 degrees F oil temp in drafting situations using these oils. At crazy rpm's no less.


Mobil 1 produces a POA synthetic oil called Mobil 1 Extended Performance....it is made in a 10w-30 and has 800 ppm phosphorus and 900 ppm zinc.

I'm going to find some of this shit.

http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/oiling-syste...car-rules/
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'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
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TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!!

[FreeBug]

I just had a thought, about the temps at which oil starts breaking down, gets damaged: if the oil in the sump is at 235°F, what temp is the oil washing down the heads behind the rockers, when the head is at 350°F?

Can oil "take" short heat spikes, or is the damage quick and permanent?

I know nothing useful to this thread, just wondering out loud..

[modok]

That is true. If the oil sump temperature is X degrees, the source of the heat(bearing journals, pistons, cam) will certainly be hotter.
Oil will break down, usually loses viscosity and get thin and builds up gunk, and the hotter it is the faster it will break down, so, it just won't LAST as long, needs to be changed out and topped off more often.

IMO, any oil on the shelves today should be able to withstand temperatures higher than a magnesium engine case can sustain long term, so, I don't think we need to go looking for high temp oil.
The VW at one time ran hotter than the average car, but I think that reversed about 15 years ago. Now we have the opposite problem, in some cases running too cool to activate the additives in the oil
or at least, those of us who prefer to keep them on the cool side are having that problem.

The type 4 engine case on the other hand, should be able to sustain much higher temps, and they did. In fact, the late 70's models would kiss 300f bone stock, and....well actually that did cause some problems, but, not with the case.

Oil companies say"90% of wear occurs at start up" which sounds important, but the majority of engines don't die of "wear", they die of thermal cycling induced stress and metal creep, which the oil can do nothing about. If you just kept it running and never shut it off they might last forever.

[FreeBug]

Cars which are never shut down, like taxis, do last forever... interesting.

[Brian]

[croSSeduP]

First off, are you SURE your device to measure your oil temp is accurate? If it is, and you're running dino oil, I wouldn't want to see the oil temp get above 220 degrees F. as a constant oil temp. If going up a hill it goes higher, and then back down, fine; but if your oil temp on a consistent basis running down the freeway at a steady grade and speed goes over this? I'd be concerned.
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[skills@eurocarsplus]

[EverettB]

[rugblaster]

I've read a lot of information about motor oil, both conventional and synthetic. Apparently, Group 3 base stock can be marketed in the United States as synthetic oil.....Further, there is no doubt Group 4 base stocks (poly alpha olefins) have much better high oil temperature performance. Since the problem I see, in my climate, is extremely high operating temps, it only makes sense to use PAO oils.

Apparently there are very few true PAO oils available in the U.S. Royal Purple, some forms of Amzoil, Red Line etc. There are some Euro spec brands such as Castrol that are actually made outside the U.S. and are actual Group 4 base stocks.... Those brands, while may be fine, are not widely available. The one I want to use is Mobil 1 Extreme Performance.......I am given to understand over half the NASCAR teams use some form of Mobil 1 PAO oil.......It is available in every chain parts store and every Wal Mart in the country. It looks to be about 25 bucks for 5 quarts.

I'm going to give it a try.
_________________
'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)

VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!!

[mark tucker]

somehow eye dont think the wally world mobile oil is the same stuff nascar is using in the race cars. and remember if your car isant a race car and sees the maint&oh so frequent oil swaps/changes you dont want to use a racing oil as it is not made for daily driver usage. find out what some big road race teams use and how often they change the oil&filter and go through the motors.
the first 50000 miles on my 2028 I used mostly castrol full synthetic 5-20. nowdays I use a mix of quakerstate deffy&castrol,penisoil,mobile,valvoiline synthetic oils with the quakerstate the only non full syn ,it's a blend with zinc.at over 75000 miles now , 1 oil /filter change a year the oil is still looking very clean, it looks cleaner after a year in my bug than new oil looks in 3 months in my wifes honda witch get more often oil changes.I attribute that to the total seal piston rings&coatingsI use on the internal parts. in short use to oil that gives you that warm&fuzzy fealing.if cheep shit does it for you.. than use it. if racing oil warms your cockles than go fer it.if your motor dosent survive just blame it on the awesome power that the parts could not handle.
I do remember running mrs tuckers cooking oil in our dirtbikes when we had nothing else to run....I dont recall many isues

[vugbug68]

[rugblaster]

[mark tucker]

0 eye c. so da nacar's are usen extended oil now. ok.