| What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal? |
| 180* Cool as can be. My car like it here. |
|
4% |
[ 4 ] |
| 190* Wramed up nicely |
|
4% |
[ 4 ] |
| 200* Running great. |
|
13% |
[ 11 ] |
| 210* Gotta get that H2o outta the crankcase |
|
12% |
[ 10 ] |
| 220* This is a good number. My car runs great here |
|
29% |
[ 24 ] |
| 230* Really sweating a little here. |
|
13% |
[ 11 ] |
| 235* Probably should pull over and have a look at things. |
|
13% |
[ 11 ] |
| 240+ I like it hot as hell! |
|
4% |
[ 4 ] |
| 300* My darg racer is right on the ragged edge of distruction. |
|
2% |
[ 2 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 81 |
|
| Author |
Message |
fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal? |
 |
|
| kawfee wrote: |
| The advice I go by is that at 225-235 the oil is too hot. At these temperatures the cylinder heads are over 400 degrees and the heads have expanded more than the steel studs holding them in place. |
That's the issue....my heads don't get hotter than about 305 to 310.....thats temp at number 3 spark plug.
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal? |
|
|
| [email protected] wrote: |
CHT and oil temps are not directly related.
You can have an engine with
cool oil and overheated heads
hot oil and normal temp heads
cool oil and cold heads
hot oil and overheated heads.
GENERALLY, oil temps follow RPM and pressures
and
CHTs follow airflow and load.
Obviously the wrong timing will increase CHTs and not change oil temps at all.
The 2 don't always track together. |
Hmm.....what would be your guess on my oil temps John? Is if just a tight, new motor? Oil pressure is good up u til it gets in the 230+ range....then I shut it down. Valve lash hasn't budged....just checked it again last night while I was changing the oil as per marks recommendation of 5 changes....that was my fifth hot flush.Oil cooler seals were changed out for fresh ones. All tin except flaps is on. Head temps are good. Not sure about the tune, but wouldn't the cut be up if the tune were off? Motor has less than 300 miles on it....will it cool off that much once it's broken in or do I need to pull it and open it up. If I have to pull it I will.
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 12785
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal? |
|
|
Oil temps won't be "normal" until 2k miles or so. So drive it a bit and keep an eye on the temps. If you have to pull over when temps hit 240 and idle for 5 minutes, so what.
But IF temps are still too high after 2k miles, and all the tin is there, seals good, good oil, getting air to the engine (standoffs or vents in decklid) etc, then you may just need a cooler. But I always recommend adding it later, because many engines simply do not need one.
I also want to add that dual springs increase oil temps like 15F. This is one of the advantages of a Beehive spring (which combats valve float with different spring coil sizes), since the harmonic canceling of duals is from the coils actually rubbing one another (friction), and the additional friction of the higher spring pressures.
_________________
It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal? |
|
|
| [email protected] wrote: |
Oil temps won't be "normal" until 2k miles or so. So drive it a bit and keep an eye on the temps. If you have to pull over when temps hit 240 and idle for 5 minutes, so what.
But IF temps are still too high after 2k miles, and all the tin is there, seals good, good oil, getting air to the engine (standoffs or vents in decklid) etc, then you may just need a cooler. But I always recommend adding it later, because many engines simply do not need one. |
Okay. .motor gets plenty of air...has vintage speed standoff at the bottom...venturi ring on shroud. I'll check all the sealing tonight with a flashlight. Has all tin except for flaps. I'll just keep an eye on it. Thank you.
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 12785
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal? |
|
|
If it's over 90F ambient and oil temps are in the 230-235 range at the peak, I wouldn't worry about it. Good oil can handle that no problem at all.
At 300 miles, you are still dealing with extra temps from an engine not fully broken in, and especially parts which don't have a layer of insulating carbon on them yet (pistons, chambers, exhaust, etc).
_________________
It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epayne611
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2011
Posts: 316
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal? |
|
|
I did all kinds of things to get my oil temps under control on my 2110 while freeway cruising. Had a thread going, went through airflow, vent ring, seals, ducting, tuning, oil weights, decklid tennis ball...
Then a guy says, "you've basically doubled the output of what the stock oil cooler was designed for".
Got a Setrab with fan and thermo switch and that was the end of it. I do wonder if I could've gotten by with the type 4 mod but after doing the research it seemed iffy.
A 2276 is a prob a lot for the stock cooler to handle at rpm. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:13 am Post subject: Re: What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal? |
|
|
| epayne611 wrote: |
I did all kinds of things to get my oil temps under control on my 2110 while freeway cruising. Had a thread going, went through airflow, vent ring, seals, ducting, tuning, oil weights, decklid tennis ball...
Then a guy says, "you've basically doubled the output of what the stock oil cooler was designed for".
Got a Setrab with fan and thermo switch and that was the end of it. I do wonder if I could've gotten by with the type 4 mod but after doing the research it seemed iffy.
A 2276 is a prob a lot for the stock cooler to handle at rpm. |
Yeah. I think John's right but I also believe what you're saying about rpm and hp output. I had a cooler with thermal controlled fan on the shelf. Was waiting until I decided if I was going to pull the motor. I think the motor will "settle in " eventually but in the meantime it can't hurt to have the extra cooler with the fan. Just to usher installing it. Just have to wire it up and it's ready to go. It can't hurt and it will definitely help.
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
richierich
Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2004
Posts: 889
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:41 am Post subject: Re: What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal? |
|
|
| Funnily enough, my fresh 2276 - now with around 1,500 miles on it was running a little hot on the freeway. Car is an Oval with stock ratio box but 265/15 rear tyres. I decided to investigate a little and found an incomplete hoover bit and damaged foam rape on the cooler. I rectified those and went to 10w30 oil. I also have stood off my deck lid top AND bottom. The result of all that is massive. It now sits at around 220 on the freeway but I make sure that I keep the fan speed around 3 - 3,250rpm. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:07 am Post subject: Re: What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal? |
|
|
| fivelugshortaxle wrote: |
| Well, my oil temps got somewhat under control after I added all the tin . Cruise around town at 35 to 40 and it hits about 185 190. Highway runs it will kiss 235 and keep creeping and cool off as soon as I exit the highway. I haven't installed the external oil cooler yet but will soon. |
that to me sounds like a ext cooler is needed. did you add the slots to lifter bores or lifters or some way to get full time oiling to the heads? a lot of heat is generated in the valvetrain, especially when there is not much of a oil supply as vw did it. a lot of oil can help keep parts alive and cool instead of a little oil buring shit up and killing it. hmm if there isant enough oil and the rockers&springs cook&coke up...will that raise the oil temps a lot? a little oil not removing squat for heat.....lotsa lube=better lubrication, cooler parts, longer life.happyer but dyno. and yes your trying to cool 2276 with a 1600 cooler. the oe cooler does a wonderfull job...and so does a little john boat in the pond, add some open water and jaws.and....your gonna need a bigger boat  I wouldent recomend the plate type thats sold by empi and many others. they just dont pass enough air to do much. a seatraub type is much better(and there are planty of that type made in china in oh somany sizes a lot cheeper than the seatrab brand) I have the empi plate type on my car....it's shit. yes it removes some heat.....but not much. my car dosent realy need/have to have a ext cooler...but I do like to be able to turn on a fan in the summer for added cooling. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 12785
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:17 am Post subject: Re: What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal? |
|
|
the more oil you send to the heads, the higher the oil temps (not cooler), since the oil is cooling the heads (heating the oil). The heads don't cool the oil.
_________________
It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:27 am Post subject: Re: What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal? |
|
|
I put my external oil cooler with thermal switched fan on last night. I have a nice collection of different length an8 lines that came in handy. Going to wire the fan up today. Ran it for about 10 minutes or so after hooking it up and no leaks. It's underneath the curved part of the package tray up away from the road. Has about 8 inches of space behind it to draw air and it's at an angle so it won't drain when motor is shut off. Insurance is good.
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:15 am Post subject: Re: What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal? |
|
|
| [email protected] wrote: |
| the more oil you send to the heads, the higher the oil temps (not cooler), since the oil is cooling the heads (heating the oil). The heads don't cool the oil. |
yes john,but no oil will kill the parts and not nessarly raise the temps as much as some may think as the parts are cooking them selves. a lot of oil keeps them from cooking. kinda like a teaspoon of boiling water added to a gallon of 100 degree water vs oh never mind. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:20 am Post subject: Re: What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal? |
|
|
| mark tucker wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| the more oil you send to the heads, the higher the oil temps (not cooler), since the oil is cooling the heads (heating the oil). The heads don't cool the oil. |
yes john,but no oil will kill the parts and not nessarly raise the temps as much as some may think as the parts are cooking them selves. a lot of oil keeps them from cooking. kinda like a teaspoon of boiling water added to a gallon of 100 degree water vs oh never mind. |
Lifters got the groove put in them. That's the only oiling mod I did.
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 12785
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:25 am Post subject: Re: What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal? |
|
|
I'm not saying send no oil. I'm just saying don't expect more oil to cool off your heads, that's the wrong way to view it.
_________________
It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:38 am Post subject: Re: What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal? |
|
|
| [email protected] wrote: |
| I'm not saying send no oil. I'm just saying don't expect more oil to cool off your heads, that's the wrong way to view it. |
Yeah I understand that. Air cooled motors...not oil cooled.
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal? |
|
|
Personally I think the perfect oil temp is right at 400 F....that way the turkey skin browns but the oil does not smoke...... 
Sorry its been that kind of day...couldn't resist!
Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal? |
|
|
I installed the Atomic cool oil cooler with thermal activated fan last night. Wired it today. My full flow line comes out of the oil pump cover to the oil filter....oil temp gauge is inline here. Out line from filter assembly goes to the external filter...180 thermal switch is here. Line going out goes to the fitting on the case. I was yet to v temps that would creep up near the 235 to 240 range. Took the car on a hour long hard run tonight and mixed it up....some sprints....long highway cruise at 65....some big hills in 4th gear that I would floor it at about 40 in 4th going up the hill. Normally I wouldn't go to these extremes as the oil temps would have already hit 230 and I would shut it down. Tonight my oil temps hit 190 once and immediately cooled off to 180.....I couldn't get the temps to hit 200!  So ....after the fan cooled the oil and it them went to the motor and splashed around in there....fell into the sump and pumped back out....temps were 180! Tells me that my fears can go away.....the stock oil cooler with the motor being new and tight just couldn't keep up. Motor sounds different.....idles better....feels punchier....it definitely likes the cooler oil. Now, I'm going to pull the pumpl cover off and put a new, thin gasket in there. I didn't use the thin one when I built the motor and my warm oil temps show it a bit. Oil pressure is about 5lbs low if you're going by the 10 lbs per 1,000 rpm.
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dubman67
Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2003
Posts: 273
Location: Big Sky Country
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2023 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal? |
|
|
Bringing back an old thread.
Was sitting here thinking, I know...
If I'm understanding the stock oiling system correctly, the hottest oil is in the sump. As it gets sucked up and pumped out by the oil pump, the control - relief valve determines if it goes to the cooler or not. The cooled oil goes to the bearings, rockers, etc.
Has anybody did a test on how much the stock cooler brings oil temps down?
Theoretically if sump oil is 230, after cooler oil is maybe 215?
So a blinking Berg tattle tell or 240 gauge temp is really nothing to worry about.
Thoughts?
_________________
67 Bug
62 Double Cab
[url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate2-54829.png]Click to view image[/URL]
"At 17 got my first Volkswagen...and mastered the life long art of dragin...." Ice Cube |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kbentz8
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2023
Posts: 8
Location: Washington State
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal? |
|
|
I just ran across this thread and followed it to the end.
I know that I’m new here, and NOT an expert on anything VW. I just got my first Beetle.
I am however versed on aircooled powerplants. I’m an Airframe and Powerplant mechanic.
While I’ve heard a lot of talking about oil temperatures (obviously), the thing that is really needs to be monitored is CHT (cylinder head temperature) and EGT(exhaust gas temperature). Those will affect your oil temperature the most. We regularly run EGT ~1200-1400*. However, the only way to significantly reduce your temps is to cool it. We ADD Fuel. Enrichment is the most efficient way to cool down the cylinders.
A lean engine can produce more power at the expense higher temperatures. Lean engines run HOT.
Adjust your mixture and have timing correct and you should have better results.
Just my $.02. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
madmike
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 5292
Location: Atlanta,Michigan
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:38 am Post subject: Re: What is too hot of an oil temp? What is considered Normal? |
|
|
That's fine if u can adjust the mix on the 'Fly' we with carb's can't do that,,lol
_________________
'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
