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1966 Deluxe 21 Window Shamba
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Mr Margaret Scratcher
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:49 am    Post subject: 1966 Deluxe 21 Window Shamba Reply with quote

(Mirroring this thread from another forum, just so I get more people reading and hopefully helping me when I get stuck)

I've had his little guy tucked away (or not) since I imported it about 10 years ago, back when the dollar was worth about 50p. It cost me $6000 and then I paid about another £1000 to get it over from Texas.

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It's a deluxe bus that has had a 21 window roof grafted on at some point, seems fairly solid bodywise, but the cab and cargo floors are absolutely shot - they were covered in fibreglass which I think held the water against them, and I've got a funny feeling the roof transplant job will need sorting properly, as will the skylight window apertures - I tried to get the glass in them just to help seal it up a bit but they're all a bit ropey, and consequently, none of the skylight windows will fit...

Here's the cab floor:
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You can see it's a bit tea-baggy...

I attacked it this evening with a set of mole grips to see what the rails were like. Fortunately, the chassis rails seem pretty good:
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The cargo floor tells a similar story:
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I've had a little peek and a feel-around, and again, the sills look solid inside, as do the chassis rails, outriggers etc. I can't pull all the cargo floor up just yet as I'm using the bus as a makeshift shed, and so I'll need to find another home for the engines and parts that are currently residing in the back. The big downside is that the bottom of the bulkhead/divider panel has rusted through, and I'm not sure anyone does a repair panel for post 65 buses in this area?

Also the rear wheel tubs need work, and the battery tray needs replacing.

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No doubt along the way I'll find lots more little bits, (there's a fair few holes where the cargo floor meets the sills) but as far as I can see, with it being a completely empty shell it's not too bad.


I've been doing loads of reading on inspirational threads of people tackling similar jobs, with a similar amount of welding experience as myself, (ie none), and once I get my new welder home, and I've had a bit of practice I'm going to delve right in!

I've also got a 67 single cab, which was my daily driver, and, of the two buses, the one that I thought would be the easiest to get back through an MOT and on the road, but after pulling the front bumper off and looking at the crumbly front valance, I've decided that doing the floors on the camper is going to be the best way to ease myself into it.

Updates as I go Smile
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Mr Margaret Scratcher
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:51 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 Deluxe 21 Window Shamba Reply with quote

Mostly out:
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Rails look solid:
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(Apart from where I scored across the top of one with the angle grinder.. Embarassed )

The left hand side A post and front inner panel has a bit of rot:
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And there are some ominous bubbles on the front panel:
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Although I can't feel or see anything down the back of the panel:
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Hard to take a pic of, but the valance is solid:
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I'm going to carry on tomorrow and separate all the edges where it is spot welded, and then plot my next manoeuvre - I best get my welder home and get practising on the few bits of solid floor that I've cut out..


*LATER****

Out with the old:
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Hmm, this left hand dogleg is looking a bit suspect:
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Let's have a dig:
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oooohhhh....
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There is metal under there, is there ever a case for patching rather than getting a new panel? If it's just the inner edge that is a straight bend (if you know what I mean) surely that's quite easy to fabricate?


Got the heater tube out:
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I also poked the bubbles on the front panel, and predictably it's holed right through where the inner valance joins, so I guess I'm going to have to take the inner headlight support panel out to investigate..


Also, when grinding out the heater tube, I ended up taking off a lot more metal than I wanted - what the secret to grinding through just enough material on welds like that to have the least amount of repair to do afterwards?
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Braukuche
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 Deluxe 21 Window Shamba Reply with quote

A long road ahead, but you've taken the first step.
I think I'd start with that janky roof first, might turn out to be a bigger PITA than you think and might make you reconsider the whole project.
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Mr Margaret Scratcher
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: 1966 Deluxe 21 Window Shamba Reply with quote

Braukuche wrote:
A long road ahead, but you've taken the first step.
I think I'd start with that janky roof first, might turn out to be a bigger PITA than you think and might make you reconsider the whole project.


£1,400 if I whip it off and replace it with a complete new panel... Hmmm... Curently I can see that the old roof got cut out around the fresh air box and the samba roof went over the top :/

Anyway, some more pics:

The inner front panel has some major rot on the left hand side:
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and a some holes over on the right:

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How do I go about patching that?

The A posts seem not too bad - the left side one has rusted through the bottom inner panel (But seems fine other than that) and the right hand side one has a little hole visible on the inside, but the bottom closing panel is good...

The doglegs:
Right:
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Left:
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Both seem to be mainly fine, but rusted along where the lower door edge would go - not sure whether I could easily make repair sections for these rather than buying panels. Not sure how I'd fix that crusty seal lip on the right hand side though...
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edgood1
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 1966 Deluxe 21 Window Shamba Reply with quote

its all fixable. It stinks that someone would take the time to graft on the roof and paint the bus but not fix the rust properly. they probably were trying to turn it over fast for a big profit.... you should take a good look at how that roof graft was done and under all the paint. from what you posted it doesn't look too bad. typical bus rust... a good weekend project Razz
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Mr Margaret Scratcher
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:18 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 Deluxe 21 Window Shamba Reply with quote

edgood1 wrote:
its all fixable. It stinks that someone would take the time to graft on the roof and paint the bus but not fix the rust properly. they probably were trying to turn it over fast for a big profit.... you should take a good look at how that roof graft was done and under all the paint. from what you posted it doesn't look too bad. typical bus rust... a good weekend project Razz


Hah, I reckon I should be able to get it all done over a pot noodle one lunch time...

Yeah the painting thing is a bit weird, but it was bare inside so there was nothing being hidden - I got the seller to take plenty of pics for me. From where I've investigated the doglegs it looks like the OG paint is under there...
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edgood1
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 Deluxe 21 Window Shamba Reply with quote

Mr Margaret Scratcher wrote:


Hah, I reckon I should be able to get it all done over a pot noodle one lunch time...

Yeah the painting thing is a bit weird, but it was bare inside so there was nothing being hidden - I got the seller to take plenty of pics for me. From where I've investigated the doglegs it looks like the OG paint is under there...


yeah, i can see the sea blue peeking out where it was ground down.
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Mr Margaret Scratcher
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 Deluxe 21 Window Shamba Reply with quote

edgood1 wrote:
yeah, i can see the sea blue peeking out where it was ground down.

Yep, matches my M- plate. Smile

But yeah if anyone has any info or links to a thread showing how that inner front panel is joined/can he separated from the A post, I'd be most appreciative. Or ideally, how I'd proceed, order-wise to start getting the front solid again.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:44 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 Deluxe 21 Window Shamba Reply with quote

There are some detailed photos of the areas you're looking for in my thread:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:06 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 Deluxe 21 Window Shamba Reply with quote

This looks like the start of a rat hole.

Anyone that has repaired rust on a bus knows that seeing rust in area A means rust in B, C and D usually.

If you are in for the long haul, proceed. If you have a predetermined threshold for pain ($$) I'd do some more exploration and assessment and determine if you might exceed that threshold.

Everything is repairable in time, but not everyone has the means or appetite to take on a project like this and complete it.

Good luck with your project either way!
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Mr Margaret Scratcher
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 1966 Deluxe 21 Window Shamba Reply with quote

Bulli Klinik wrote:
There are some detailed photos of the areas you're looking for in my thread:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0


Whoa! Amazing fabricating skills! I'm just up to the part where you've made the inner front panel...

Aha so you can only remove it out from the front. I was hoping that I could leave it in situ and make a repair piece. I'm going to cut that crusty left hand side bit out to healthy metal and have a peer about inside, see if I can figure a way to repair it and the A post and spot weld them together as they would be from factory.

Cheers!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 Deluxe 21 Window Shamba Reply with quote

More digging:

Fair bit of filler and some holes at the bottom of the nose
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Looks like it's had a spare wheel mount at some point - the holes were just mesh n filler'ed over:

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The roof is very crusty, let's poke those bubbles:

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OOhhhh.... Holes..
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The skylights have had some very bad repairs done to them over time:
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I imagine that all the skylights are as bad as that one - thinking a complete new roof might be the way to go...
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Mr Margaret Scratcher
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 Deluxe 21 Window Shamba Reply with quote

More digging on the roof:

Skylight on right side has similar bad repairs:

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You can see where the original roof , at the front, meets the samba clip:
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Inside, next to the fresh air box you cam see where the original roof is still attached to the airbox, with the samba roof plonked on top:
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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Looking more and more like a replacement roof is the way to go.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 Deluxe 21 Window Shamba Reply with quote

Such a strangely 'half rotten, half pretty good' bus, this - Check out the B post on the right hand side:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Battery tray is toast:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:15 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 Deluxe 21 Window Shamba Reply with quote

Mole grips? Confused
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:57 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 Deluxe 21 Window Shamba Reply with quote

Jacks wrote:
Mole grips? Confused


Eh?

EDIT: Oh I see - "Vise Grips" over in the US Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 Deluxe 21 Window Shamba Reply with quote

Wow. BIG project..! Shocked

Looks like you're doing the right thing by digging in and seeing exactly what you bought.

Depending upon what your workplace situation looks like,
You might consider pushing the 'Easy' button.

I spent an entire summer in a home-made blasting booth,
Only to find out you can get an entire car wet-blasted for $700.

If you had that thing down to 100% bare metal all around,
You would know exactly what you are working with,
And save many days of unpleasant work.

If you're stuck storing the thing outside,
You'll have to be super-diligent about getting the bare shell sealed right back up with a coat of epoxy.

So,
Take me FWIW,
But,
If I had to do it over again, I'd just call in the big wet blasting truck and be done with all of that in one day.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 1966 Deluxe 21 Window Shamba Reply with quote

Clatter wrote:
Depending upon what your workplace situation looks like....


Well, I live in England, have no garage, and summer has just about come to an end, so yeah.... Sad

I'm not looking to do a full restoration (I know I know, so says everyone that ends up tearing down their bus after 'just fixing this one little bit of bubbled paint'), but there's the balance between doing things right while you've got it torn down, and wishing you had 5/10 years later down the line.

Also, I'm pretty sure there's OG paint pretty much everywhere on the bus under that blue...

Anyway, I've started cutting out the battery tray, seems like that's a good "Can I actually do this?" litmus test before I go hacking the lower part of my nose off...
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:44 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 Deluxe 21 Window Shamba Reply with quote

Mr Margaret Scratcher wrote:
Jacks wrote:
Mole grips? Confused


Eh?

EDIT: Oh I see - "Vise Grips" over in the US Smile
Huh. Our Vice Grips say “Vice Grips” right on them. Do your Mole Grips say”Mole Grips” on them? I’d love to see a picture of that. Shocked
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:40 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 Deluxe 21 Window Shamba Reply with quote

Yeah - called Mole Grips in UK - always have been.... you piqued my interest as to why - so a google comes up with this - Courtesy of Wikipedia

Quote:
"Mole" and "Vise-Grip" are trade names of different brands of locking pliers, yet mechanics and do-it-yourself hobbyists and craftspeople generically refer to locking pliers as "Vise-Grips" in the US, and "Mole grips" in the UK. In Ireland the tool is known as a "vice grip".

The first locking pliers, named Vise-Grips, were invented by William S. Petersen in De Witt, Nebraska in 1924.[1]

In 1955 "Mole wrenches" were developed by Thomas Coughtrie (1917–2008), who was at that time managing director of M. K. Mole and Son. The wrenches were manufactured in Newport, Wales, just off the M4, near to the Brynglas Tunnels; travelling west on the motorway, the Mole sign was visible immediately before entering the tunnels.


Anyhoo.... on with the thread, after that little diversion Laughing Exclamation
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