Engine conversions / frame reinforcement

[Panelfantastic]

Thanks, not everybody is open minded. I wouldn't have dared to do this to a pristine barndoor, but I picked this panel for this project, knowing I was going outside the norm...
The 275 is turnkey but not from me looking at a scale, what someone told me. I have wrestled it and that is a close guess I'm sure.
Ahhh... the radiator, thats probably gonna be a sore subject once I get this thing running.
The wiring and sensors are the best part...this idea came from a buddy in Cali that does the sandbuggy stuff. He already has the package fine tuned for compactness and sensor placement. When I saw one in a buggy this summer and watched them absolutly flog them at Glamis in JUNE! (btw, June=wrong time to go to desert) I knew this thing could be the ticket.
Cooling? see my comment about the radiator... my "slick" idea for radiator placement has zero mechanical merit and I fear I will regret it...

I haven't had a need for any special tools so far. Anything that was odd or "one off", my buddy already has parts made for their sand buggies to make it standard-ized.

Time O' time... I must have plenty of that. I've been at this for about eight months now, but there's a whole lot more here than an engine conversion. I've done some extensive suspension/brake mods. The only real holdup on the engine part was running out of money. I bought as I could afford, engine first then harness and ECU then adapter/flywheel, bit by bit. I am verry close right now. I found out that my buddy uses 228mm flywheels in the buggies and I'm trying to "make do" with a type1 box just to get it running and baby it around for a while...228mm flywheels do not fit type1 trannies soooo I have to pay Kennedy a premium for them to make one (200mm flywheel) and they are not in a hurry... or upgrade to a Porsche fiver which I have no money for....
These are the pitfalls you are trying to warn about....
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Your comment reminds me of the timing on a turbo engine....

[bljones]

You're right about upgrading all of the other systems once you start looking at increasing hp- that is one of the big project killers for a lot of conversions, cuz it ain't as simple as "bolt in a big engine and go."

"special tools' is all in the eye of the beholder, i think. for the average weekend tinkerer with a craftsman socket set, even minor jobs like fabricating mounts, cradles and brackets can mean an investment in tools and time, or a bigger investment farming it out.

It's all about the goals, and whether the end justifies the means.

Conversions have their place- a bus is a great example- lots of weight, not too much stock power... but sometimes there is no benefit, like below:

I'm building a mid-engined autocross buggy now as a magazine project- i'm staying strictly air-cooled for two reasons: 1) time- i have 90 days- no time to re-invent the wheel and work out bugs, and 2) cost- i have a total budget for the project of $1500. with an all -in weight target of 1000 lbs, and a power target of 70 bhp, I'll have a power/weight ratio of 1 hp/ 14 lbs. and damn near perfect 50/50 weight distribution. If i decided to shoehorn in an engine like yours, I'd gain 75 lbs in engine weight, 50 lbs of weight in rad, fans, etc., 25 lbs of adapter, and another 20 lbs additional exhaust weight, plus 10 lbs of engine management wiring, fuel pump etc.,. I'd have to stretch the frame to allow for the larger engine and rad placement, fab mounts, add gussets and tubing to conquer torque twist,custom fab an exhaust- figure another 60 lbs there. THEN, rejigger all of the weight distribution, to try to get back to the sweet spot. so now, the weight is up around 1250 lbs. but, with more power, i've got to beef up the trans- another 25 lbs. Then, bigger wheels and rubber to try to put the power to use. another 50 lbs. so now, i've got 170 hp and 1325 lbs. pretty decent- I've dropped my power/weight ratio by a third. Where's the catch?
remember the goal- autocross. most of this machine's life will be spent in second and third gear, on tight parking lot pylon courses- "quick' is more important than "fast.' and if you are losing power through wheelspin, or are unable to take advantage of the power because you spend little time in the right spot of the torque/hp curve, then it has no value.
... besides, it's amazing how much the fun of a cheap quick project wears off when it is no longer quick and fun. To make the above conversion scenario workable, i would be better off starting from scratch with a bare frame, rather than chasing problems. engineering is always easier than RE-engineering.

now compare cost- I would have to at LEAST increase my $1500 budget to $10,000. Now the grin/dollar ratio decreases. if i break the low-budget wonder on the track, it's no big deal-repairs are cheap. if i break an investment 6-7 times greater, my costs will also be greater. what does a head for a chevy engine cost? suddenly it ain't as fun.

i'd rather face the frustration of reaching my car's potential, and then challengin myself to take it farther, than being frustrated because my project HASN'T reached it's full potential.
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OG JHC
Author of Original Rant #1
"It stingd itself to dead... now that is control on you"

2%

[Letterman7]

Now this is what the discussion forums are about. Ideas being shared without prejudice. Bl - I may take you on that offer. As much as I admire Jake's motors - a type IV 2056cc with cooling and matched gearbox was quoted at over 8K - at this point not an option. A custom gearbox from a builder with gears suited to highway cruising, the horsepower and torque of a larger motor was quoted around 12-1300k (high end). A used GM motor around 800, eelctronics around 1500. Radiators and misc. parts ahould be around 1k or less. My budget, if my wife lets me would be around 4k, so I'd be well within budget. As for fabbing and the actual work involved; I'm a signmaker by trade, and have some sheetmetal working items and knowledge thereof. The only thing that is shaking confidence at the moment is swapping the tranny and making sure the axles go in right.
Now, if you could build a motor for a budget of 2k, I might consider the offer. Your concern of the weight bias is very justified; but I'm wondering of the battery and the radiator in the front of the car would not help to offset it somewhat. Heat from the pipes? Good question...the body tub has tons of room in the rails; I wonder if I couldn't find heat shielding for the body. Maybe run the tubing thru some vented piping? We'll see.
Like stated before, at this point I'm 'woolgathering' until I actually have the car in hand, and from there I can make an informed decision. The only thing that really sparked the initial thread was the car has a 'tuned' 1300 motor in it - rebuilt by the owner to 1600 (lightened flywheel, mild cam, dual Webers, etc.). And he says it 'leaks a little'. Ok. Maybe I can run it for a bit until it falls apart, but being a hobby, I do have time to play during rainy days! And last summer was full of them!
Keep up the good work, gentlemen! And Jeff - thanks again!