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73 Super Beetle - Build thread?
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Hatracks
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:09 pm    Post subject: 73 Super Beetle - Build thread? Reply with quote

So I stopped today and looked at a 73 super beetle for sale not far from the house...it looks like a $1,300.00 car should. Rough old paint, rough interior, does not look to be anything beyond surface rust, battery area already had been cut out and fixed. So that is the good, the bad is that it has a "newly" rebuilt motor that does not run due to a carb issue (I am expecting to be much deeper than that). Here is a pic of the engine bay I am going to drag the thing home tomorrow and can get more detailed pics but anyone want to give me a first guess on what I am looking at here (other than get the fuel filter out of there!)?


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About me:
Decent mechanic, decent welder, decent painter, can do basic machining and have a shop, I have restored a couple of muscle cars (concourse and modified), but I know jack shit about VWs other than I grew up with my parents driving one and always wanted to fix one up.


Last edited by Hatracks on Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:33 pm; edited 3 times in total
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cletus_zuber
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle - First Look Reply with quote

Incongruity


SHINY CHROME all around a crappy 70's smog carb. From the looks of it it "might" be an original unmolested engine under all that CHROME, which would be good. I wonder if that distributor is a 90's 094 or a chrome late model petronix or whatever...
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Hatracks
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle - First Look Reply with quote

cletus_zuber wrote:
Incongruity


SHINY CHROME all around a crappy 70's smog carb. From the looks of it it "might" be an original unmolested engine under all that CHROME, which would be good. I wonder if that distributor is a 90's 094 or a chrome late model petronix or whatever...


Ah so smog is what that is, I was wondering what the heck kind of strange PCV system it was. I am super familiar with small block fords so this is way out of my realm. That smog stuff is going to have to go...
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cletus_zuber
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle - First Look Reply with quote

Search "idiot book" and get one, get a Bentley manual, the Orange one. all available here on the classifieds. you can build a ford or whatever, you won't have no problem with a VW.
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67rustavenger
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle - First Look Reply with quote

Welcome to the samba.
What is the intention of this car? A flip? A driver? A show car?
Or are you just trying to understand how these things work.
The chrome everything in the engine compartment is (while shiny) reflecting heat back toward the engine. VW used to install chrome tins on the engines that were destined for extremely cold environments. Think Antarctica. Ideally an original fan shroud and engine tins would be better for the life of the engine. So yea you might have overheat issues in your near future. Original VW's came with what are called tar boards in the engine compartment to deaden the engine drone and excess heat. Your just at the beginning of a journey that will at times get you very frustrated. When you get mad at it, walk away.
These seemingly simple cars can get the best of the most seasoned
"Muscle Car Mechanic."
Learn to use the search feature here. When you get stuck. Ask.
Good Luck. I look forward to you next post with the pics.
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Hatracks
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle - First Look Reply with quote

67rustavenger wrote:

What is the intention of this car? A flip? A driver? A show car?



Plan so far:

Step 1. To get it running and drive the heck out of it.

and thats as far as I have gotten...

I will make sure to post lots of pics and document it. Car for sure needs a new interior/front end rebuild/disk brakes sometime after it runs.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle - First Look Reply with quote

Just lost my night vision looking at that engine...lookup beetle fires...lines, filters, wiring.
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Hatracks
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle - First Look Reply with quote

curtp07 wrote:
Just lost my night vision looking at that engine...lookup beetle fires...lines, filters, wiring.


I hope they sell replacement tins...or do I have to scrounge for a set of originals?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle - First Look Reply with quote

Averys air cooled usually has decent used tins at reasonable prices. Generally new metal isn't as good as good used stuff, but I'm not sure about the tin...I've always bought used.

There's also "awesome powdercoat" check him out around here.

Good luck, sounds like fun...you'll love the beetle Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle - First Look Reply with quote

Readily available used(preferred) and new. Look in the classifieds lots of good used parts. Get a "doghouse" setup and be done with the heat issue all together.
See the journey has already begun.
Good Luck.
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Hatracks
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle - First Look Reply with quote

Thanks for all of the info so far, so is the smog carb pretty much junk or salvageable? What other equipment gets tossed with it?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle - First Look Reply with quote

cletus_zuber wrote:
.... a crappy 70's smog carb...


I'm with everything that's been said except I have to respectfully disagree with Cletus on this point. That carb is a Mexican bocar 34 pict-3. I have the exact same one on my '72 super and, nicely dialed in and with the correct Vw DVDA distributor runs great. So good in fact that I've been using over two professionally refurbished/rebushed/rebuilt German solex 34-3/4 carbs I own. Better even paired with the year-correct oil bath air filter.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


That carb does not run well with your 009 distributor. You have to get bigger jets and run super rich, and that's one thing about that bocar carb- you can't change its idle and main jets, they're not the same as in a German 34/3/4 carb.
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Hatracks
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle - First Look Reply with quote

vamram wrote:


That carb does not run well with your 009 distributor. You have to get bigger jets and run super rich, and that's one thing about that bocar carb- you can't change its idle and main jets, they're not the same as in a German 34/3/4 carb.


Ok I am seeing SVDA 034 distributors are pretty available, it looks like there are import models with no warranty at least (i didnt really look that much). I should at least be able to get the thing running though with the set up currently installed?

I am hoping to just find something dumb wrong with it instead of expecting the worse like someone wiped a cam lobe breaking in a fresh rebuild.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle - First Look Reply with quote

Well I towed her home tonight, the guy threw in all of the bentley manuals and everything so that was pretty cool. After I got home I tried to start it and she sounded like she really wanted to kick over so I went through the basics and found:

1. Carb settings were way off, returned them to default per this thread:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56411&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

2. point gap was WAY off, returned to factory manual
3. removed dirty clogged fuel filter
4. Poured in some fresh gas and BAM she runs, idles super rich, but I do not feel any sort of hesitation through the throttle travel. so tuning tomorrow and first drive.

So the good:
Runs, is clean, not really that much rust, engine sounds like it is really strong, brakes feel really good.

the bad:
whoever welded in the battery replacement patch left the bad metal and welded over it instead of cutting it out. The paint is terrible, the interior smells a bit funny, somebody RTVd the sunroof shut to keep it from leaking...and the shifter is so sloppy i cant tell what gear it is in.

All in all though not bad for my first couple of hours of VW ownership.


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Hatracks
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle - First Look Reply with quote

cletus_zuber wrote:
Incongruity


SHINY CHROME all around a crappy 70's smog carb. From the looks of it it "might" be an original unmolested engine under all that CHROME, which would be good. I wonder if that distributor is a 90's 094 or a chrome late model petronix or whatever...


It is stamped 094
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Rome
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:01 am    Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle - First Look...build thread? Reply with quote

Good going with jumping in with both feet simply on your enthusiasm about the car.

If you tend to go with a stock-look engine compartment, the engine will need to come out so you can remove the chrome tin and the chrome surround panels. Here's a shot from the gallery of a stock '73 engine. This engine has an alternator (factory installed) while yours has a generator. Keep the gen to stay simple.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The sloppy shifter is usually caused by one or two of the guide bushings being worn. The bottom of the shifter has a ball that fits into a cup at the front of a metal rod. The metal rod runs inside the tunnel and ends up under the back seat to connect with the transmission. Just to the rear of that front cup, the rod is held in place by a white plastic bushing which wears out. The rear connection can also wear out. Relatively easy to replace both; would take an afternoon. Search in this forum for more details; many have given excellent tips for a first-timer which go beyond the procedure shown in the Bentley manual.

Note:
1. Since you have to remove the shifter anyway (two M8 bolts on top of the tunnel) make sure you document the placement of the flat metal plate which is sandwiched between the bottom of the shifter and the top of the tunnel. It must be positioned in one particular way during reassembly so that you can get into all gears incl. reverse. Shown in Bentley.

2. The rear connection is a metal cage with a hard rubber insert. Do not be tempted to buy a red urethane type insert; stay with a good German sourced rubber one.

3. Both #1 and 2 are required before you consider installing a performance shifter.

4. You can achieve shorter shifter throws even with the stock shifter by using a "short shift kit". Way cheaper than a performance shifter, though perf shifters usually have a mechanism so you don't need to push down for reverse like you do on the stock shifter.

Another easy half-day project is to refinish your wheels. Pop off the hubcaps. See those two small holes along the edge of the caps? Those are for a bent stiff wire tool that came with the car's toolkit. The tool's ends go into the holes, then you use the factory jack's leverage bar to pull the hubcap off the car, placing one end of the bar against the tire sidewall and giving the bar a sharp rap. Jack up and support the car so all wheels rotate freely.

Wash the grease and dirt off the wheels, sand with 150 then 220 wet, spray with Rust-O-Leum rusty metal primer, wet-sand again with 220, then spray on Rust-O-Leum silver spray can paint. Since you have painting experience you probably already have more sophisticated tools and supplies at home for this. Prevent overspray onto the tires by taking a posterboard and cutting an approx. 2' long section. Shove the edge into the gap between the wheel edge and the tire. As you spray your light coats onto the wheel inboard of the posterboard edges, pull it off and reposition along the next section. Takes a while but by the time you go through all wheels (still on the car) the first one is dry enough for a 2nd coat. Will make a huge difference in appearance.
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Hatracks
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle - First Look...build thread? Reply with quote

Rome wrote:
Good going with jumping in with both feet simply on your enthusiasm about the car.



I didnt have a choice it was blocking in 2 of the other cars! But I am pretty excited about it. Thanks for the tips on the wheels and the shifter I will get those taken care of. Looks like i have to order the repair parts for the shifter and some points....how can a local auto store not carry points?!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:49 am    Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle - First Look...build thread? Reply with quote

Points just aren't that common anymore. Maybe 25 or 30 years ago yes. Today is all about EFI and electronic points replacement. Some are good, some are bad. Unfortunately, the points you get nowadays aren't that great either. Everyone is going super cheap on materials to get the most profit, that the consumers suffer with inferior parts compared to 25-40 years ago.

There is tons of information on this site, so try searching first. Might have to go through several threads until you find what you are looking for, but most likely it is here somewhere.

Best of luck, and enjoy driving it. You've already accomplished more than the PO.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle - First Look...build thread? Reply with quote

Chochobeef wrote:
Points just aren't that common anymore. Maybe 25 or 30 years ago yes. Today is all about EFI and electronic points replacement. Some are good, some are bad. Unfortunately, the points you get nowadays aren't that great either. Everyone is going super cheap on materials to get the most profit, that the consumers suffer with inferior parts compared to 25-40 years ago.

There is tons of information on this site, so try searching first. Might have to go through several threads until you find what you are looking for, but most likely it is here somewhere.

Best of luck, and enjoy driving it. You've already accomplished more than the PO.


Not just points going out of fashion - most cars don't have distributors anymore either.
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Hatracks
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:21 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle - First Look...build thread? Reply with quote

Alright well I got a few things accomplished today:

1. Timing set
2. Carb tuned, purrs like a kitten right at 850RPM
3. plastic fuel filter gone
4. oil changed

tomorrow I will do the valve adjustments, waiting on some gaskets to get here since she leaks out of the valve covers. I wanted to drive her today but I cant find first or reverse on the shifter its so sloppy (i think). The dash has the auto stick layout, could this be a conversion car?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Heres a couple of pictures people asked for, is there any numbers I need to get or pictures captured tomorrow when I do the valves to help ID what heads I have?

Sunroof RTVd shut:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Numbers off distributor, yellow paint shows how far off timing was:

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