| Author |
Message |
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
|
 Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: CV Joint Boots - Finally found some quality made boots that last |
 |
|
| Wildthings wrote: |
Certain forms of boots have a dam that keeps the grease out of the boot very effectively, while most do not, plus it is often the small end of the boots that fails first and the small end is the least likely part of the boot to come in contact with the grease.
The mark up on boots must be pretty high because there are always so many brands of them on the market, but no one seem to want to corner the market by making a consistently superior product. Largely it is hard to even figure out who makes a certain boot, so if you have had success with a boot and it last for a decade it is hard to know what brand they even were. I have bought the most expensive boots I could find and the cheapest and haven't found that price had anything to do with quality at all, with the single exception of the Rockford boot. |
Absolutely spot on!
Those kind of boots are really nice. It keeps the grease from backing away from the bearing. Also.....yes.....the mark up on molded rubber parts is stupendous!
Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: CV Joint Boots - Finally found some quality made boots that last |
|
|
| Oh....and forgot to mention in my previous post.....that in just as many chemicql incompatibility cases.....rubber gets HARDER when its attacked. This and the lack of flexibility it causes in the rubber....is why attacks from chemicals on the insixe can cause cracks at joints on the outaide. Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: CV Joint Boots - Finally found some quality made boots that last |
|
|
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Oh....and forgot to mention in my previous post.....that in just as many chemicql incompatibility cases.....rubber gets HARDER when its attacked. This and the lack of flexibility it causes in the rubber....is why attacks from chemicals on the insixe can cause cracks at joints on the outaide. Ray |
Ozone is the culprit. Go park it next to a big electric motor that has brushes and see how long they last.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
babysnakes
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2008
Posts: 7106
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: CV Joint Boots - Finally found some quality made boots that last |
|
|
| SGKent wrote: |
| Erik - Please Note: failure to agree with ..... |
I may not have the edgumucation that many do, but I have a modicum of experience. I appreciate all views regarding the subject matter. Although I respect Ray in the highest, I do believe a coating may prolong the lifespan on the boot. I very well may be wrong. But WTF, it won't be my first blunder. After 39 years in the hobby I do alright for myself.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hoody
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007
Posts: 1948
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: CV Joint Boots - Finally found some quality made boots that last |
|
|
| I highly reccomend Nextzett Gummi Phlege. I have brought 40 year old rubber back to like new with this product. Unfortunately I did not know about it before my axles were assembled. So the insides of the boots never got treated. But the outsides are. Time will tell but this product is amazing when it comes to keeping rubber soft and flexible. I have to believe it will greatly add to the longevity of the cv boots. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
69BahamaYellow
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2011
Posts: 536
Location: Talbott, TN
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:08 am Post subject: Re: CV Joint Boots - Finally found some quality made boots that last |
|
|
I'll have to post some pics of my passenger side boots for comparison. Those are the exact same Moog / Precision Axle 2401 boots that I have on my driver side, but only 2 years old with 18000 miles on them. Those boots still look brand new, and by that age/mileage, all the other boots I had tried were disintegrated and slinging grease.
I guess we'll just have to live with approx. 4 years / 40,000 miles as best you can get from todays CV Boots for a bus.
I like BusDady's point about a dam, to help keep the grease off the boots. Perhaps I can fabricate something out of plastic that can wedge into the metal collar of the boot with just barely enough space for axle movement. Then just pack the CV Joint with grease and put the rest on the hub side only. The grease packets supplied with new boots always have more grease than the joint and the cavity in the axle hub can handle, so I just squeeze the rest of it into the boot side. Perhaps that's not a good idea, if the grease attacks the boots. Maybe we need to re-think how much grease the joint really needs.....
Regarding the point about price having no correlation with quality, I've been checking sources for new boots, and It appears that Meyle Germany boots are now among the most expensive you can buy. In my experience, Meyle branded elastomers of any kind won't even last a year. Learned that lesson with drag links, tie rod ends, CV Boots, and replacement ball joint boots...... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
69BahamaYellow
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2011
Posts: 536
Location: Talbott, TN
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:14 am Post subject: Re: CV Joint Boots - Finally found some quality made boots that last |
|
|
| Hoody wrote: |
| I highly reccomend Nextzett Gummi Phlege. I have brought 40 year old rubber back to like new with this product. |
Going to buy some of that today. Sounds like cheap insurance |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:48 am Post subject: Re: CV Joint Boots - Finally found some quality made boots that last |
|
|
| babysnakes wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| Erik - Please Note: failure to agree with ..... |
I may not have the edgumucation that many do, but I have a modicum of experience. I appreciate all views regarding the subject matter. Although I respect Ray in the highest, I do believe a coating may prolong the lifespan on the boot. I very well may be wrong. But WTF, it won't be my first blunder. After 39 years in the hobby I do alright for myself. |
Yes.....a coating can help.
Steve is.....correct....about ozone being "A" big problem......but in incorrect about it being "THE" problem.....and not in 100% of cases. To explain what I am getting at......I ask all of you this question:
Question:
What visual clue of a rubber product with external cracking.....tells you that "ozone" caused it....or heat/cold and/or UV combined with moisture caused it (classic weathering)?......I know the answer.....because I deal with the issue as part of what I do for a living.....but I am asking if YOU know the answer.
Its an important question....because far too many times....people are just assigning that as THE problem.....when in fact it may only be PART of the problem.....and it causes you to ignore the rest of the factors.
And....where Steve lives.....California is ozone central. Not the absolute worst in the country....but the most widespread and damn high....so in his area....ozone is a big factor.
However the rubber failure issue is far too widespread...and prevalent in areas where ozone is not a factor....for it to be JUST ozone.
And....factually unless you know the details of the rubber....and have the right tools....ozone damage is......indistinguishable...... from standard weathering.
The fact is that ozone.....has no effect on rubbers and plastics that are at risk.....without heat. There is virtually no ozone damage that happens in the winter. Also in very high humidity.....think deep south....ozone damage is actually not from ozone. Its from sulfur dioxide particle bind up...with ozone and with the moisture......creating an acidic surface condition. Bluntly put....smog.
And.....the actual ozone maps of this country (updated constantly).....show far more areas of the US have ozone even in the summer....that is far below what is required even with the heat of summer....to affect rubber.
Another common problem you need to know of.... and is part of what I am getting at.....and is what some of the seal and gasket auto parts manutacturers are trying to get their head around.......is that short of Viton.....which is the cheapest rubber that ticks all of the boxes for resistance at nearly 100%....(heat/cold, oil and petroleum solvents, minerals/metals and ozone)....and viton is still not cheap and not all vitons are equal..........virtually ALL of the other common rubber products that "might" be used in a boot.......fail at least one or more of that handful of resistance parameters so badly that they cannot be used without serious reformulation.
Its not JUST ozone.
Buna Nitrile....ozone fail....but good with greases and oils....poor with weathering
Neoprene.....50/50...50/50 with petroleum and grease....50/50 with weatuering
SBR.....perfect but fails with some petroleums....50/50 with weathering
Urethane...perfect but fails with heat and weathering
EPDM....the very beat with ozone, perfect with heat and weathering....fails with petroleum
Viton.....good with all....but some problems with alcohol solvents and sensitive to variation in chemical mixture and molding quality
Silicone....excellent for ozone....poor with UV during weathering....perfect for temp range....sensitive to some common oil and grease ingredients.....but only depending on which silicone recipe. RTV's can have problems depending on the curing method. Injectioj molded parts have no oil issues.
Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12721
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:15 am Post subject: Re: CV Joint Boots - Finally found some quality made boots that last |
|
|
| 69BahamaYellow wrote: |
| Hoody wrote: |
| I highly reccomend Nextzett Gummi Phlege. I have brought 40 year old rubber back to like new with this product. |
Going to buy some of that today. Sounds like cheap insurance |
It's excellent on door seals to keep them from freezing shut in the winter, and it keeps window rubber seals supple so I can remove all my glass by hand easily with seals that are approaching ten years old.
I recently replaced all my CV boots, and I SLATHERED the left side, inside and out, with the stuff before assembly. I assembled the right boots with none. I'll keep the left side treated this year and report back if there is a difference.
Science-ish!!
Robbie
_________________
Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:13 am Post subject: Re: CV Joint Boots - Finally found some quality made boots that last |
|
|
| asiab3 wrote: |
| 69BahamaYellow wrote: |
| Hoody wrote: |
| I highly reccomend Nextzett Gummi Phlege. I have brought 40 year old rubber back to like new with this product. |
Going to buy some of that today. Sounds like cheap insurance |
It's excellent on door seals to keep them from freezing shut in the winter, and it keeps window rubber seals supple so I can remove all my glass by hand easily with seals that are approaching ten years old.
I recently replaced all my CV boots, and I SLATHERED the left side, inside and out, with the stuff before assembly. I assembled the right boots with none. I'll keep the left side treated this year and report back if there is a difference.
Science-ish!!
Robbie |
Very cool! I like that kind of real world testing.
The point about using SOMETHING for a barrier is an excellent train of thought...and is actually part of the conversation with a parts manufacturer that drove and started the small grease test I am doing.
To be clear...the engineers I spoke with are simply looking for just a couple of data points in a test that is just scientific enough to make the data points valid...to show that the oils and greases they had in mind for use with certain elastomer based products....which are common greases that supposedly "should" have no issues....are at least a part of the problem.
They will use that data point to show their superiors that its worth spending money to do serious testing.
But back on the subject of a barrier coating.....and this came up in the conversations....is the fact that the BIGGEST unknown...and POSSIBLE worst offender...for rubber damage in under carriage or under hood applications....meaning and environment with moderate to high heat, virtually no UV, some of a lot of ozone and some or a lot of weathering and splash exposure......the BIGGEST unknown.....is that last item. Splash.
What comes off the pavement of the road...anywhere in the world....is the nastiest chemically laden soup in the world. It can contain any metals, salts or minerals that are local in the dirt, chemicals spilled from garbage trucks, or rained down in exhaust and spillage from local industries, leaked from vehicles, worn down rubber compounds from tires that contain a HUGE range of petroleum and minerals, magnesium chloride and sodium from de-icer, glycols from anti-freeze and every manner of hydrocarbon.....all mixed into corrosive rain water or slush...and sprayed onto your high or low temperature rubber products under your car.
Just how the f*ck do you duplicate that nasty soup for testing?
The chemical road spray soup is "potentially" the biggest combined wild card in rubber lifespan for automotive products.
Really.....they know how to make boots that work well and they already do it. They simply use a very high quality molding of an FKM rubber (viton is an FKM...but not all FKM are viton).
They have been doing it for eons.
Most quality "brand new" cars use them...so that the boots will never fail during the warranty period. My 2012 golf....read that as 6 years now...with 126,000 miles...has perfect boots...and has driven coast to coast and in the worst ozone and industrial pollution environments.
But these are expensive. You and I....and people who have classic cars and an investment to protect....would pay the cost.....but the average beater, kitchen appliance car owner who is going to drive their heap into the ground commuting and then scrap it.....will NOT pay what good boots would cost.
They want China cheap at worst....or a complete China cheap axle that lasts the 30k miles they plan on keeping the car for. Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:26 am Post subject: Re: CV Joint Boots - Finally found some quality made boots that last |
|
|
Ray - you are going to run out of ink or wear your fingertips out if you keep making posts so long 
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:42 am Post subject: Re: CV Joint Boots - Finally found some quality made boots that last |
|
|
| SGKent wrote: |
| Ray - you are going to run out of ink or wear your fingertips out if you keep making posts so long |
 I can only do these long posts and get away with it......usually because I am on site in a customers plant....and we are standing around waiting on various stages of whatever process we are working on.
If training is not being done...meaning I am not involved in a song and dance/dog and pony show....and we are just testing a process....some stages between steps can be hours of nothing and me just working on reports and documentation on my computer or phone.....
Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:50 am Post subject: Re: CV Joint Boots - Finally found some quality made boots that last |
|
|
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| Ray - you are going to run out of ink or wear your fingertips out if you keep making posts so long |
I can only do these long posts and get away with it......usually because I am on site in a customers plant....and we are standing around waiting on various stages of whatever process we are working on.
If training is not being done...meaning I am not involved in a song and dance/dog and pony show....and we are just testing a process....some stages between steps can be hours of nothing and me just working on reports and documentation on my computer or phone.....
Ray |
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
69BahamaYellow
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2011
Posts: 536
Location: Talbott, TN
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: CV Joint Boots - Finally found some quality made boots that last |
|
|
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Really.....they know how to make boots that work well and they already do it. They simply use a very high quality molding of an FKM rubber |
This is exactly my point. I can buy a quality CV boot that will last 10 years for a highly popular vehicle like a Ford Truck for not much more money than the garbage quality boots that fit a Bus, so mass production is the solution to get quality materials and molding.
Maybe a better solution than an exact fit garbage part is a "close enough" adaptation of a quality part. I know 2 piece CV boot kits are available for a bus that use a metal collar for the CV end that are made for a traditional CV boot with an oetiker clamp, vs the more common style that has the CV boot mechanically secured to the collar itself. I bet the OEM CV boot for a Ford F-150 is pretty darn close to the dimensions for the collar and axle of a bus, but if not, I'm sure there's some other mass produced American car that is. So long as it's close enough to stretch fit a tight one or clamp fit a loose one, I think it should work. You'd probably have to still buy a garbage quality 2 piece boot kit, but you could throw the boot away, and make a quality boot fit. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: CV Joint Boots - Finally found some quality made boots that last |
|
|
| 69BahamaYellow wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Really.....they know how to make boots that work well and they already do it. They simply use a very high quality molding of an FKM rubber |
This is exactly my point. I can buy a quality CV boot that will last 10 years for a highly popular vehicle like a Ford Truck for not much more money than the garbage quality boots that fit a Bus, so mass production is the solution to get quality materials and molding.
Maybe a better solution than an exact fit garbage part is a "close enough" adaptation of a quality part. I know 2 piece CV boot kits are available for a bus that use a metal collar for the CV end that are made for a traditional CV boot with an oetiker clamp, vs the more common style that has the CV boot mechanically secured to the collar itself. I bet the OEM CV boot for a Ford F-150 is pretty darn close to the dimensions for the collar and axle of a bus, but if not, I'm sure there's some other mass produced American car that is. So long as it's close enough to stretch fit a tight one or clamp fit a loose one, I think it should work. You'd probably have to still buy a garbage quality 2 piece boot kit, but you could throw the boot away, and make a quality boot fit. |
For the right reasons.....you are correct......but not quite 100%.
If you get around to some of the American car and other foreign car forums......you will find that MANY makes and models are having the same problem to some degree.
Really....the makes and models having the least problems with CV boot quality that I can see....are those vehciles that are the newest, most common and made in the highest numbers....and this can include older n9 longer produced vehciles that use the same part as a newer one.
And.....this makes total sense from what the people and engineers I have met from auto parts producers say.
As I mentioned earlier.....the OEMs will have the very best parts available on their new cars and in their replacement parts pipeline at the dealers.....for warrantyy reasons alone.
And when they are making a new design of say.....a CV boot.....they make new tooling and they make a tight spec....and they order MILLIONS of them. Therefore they can get the parts cheap enough due to economy of scale and the molders of the part can also afford to make the parts from the very best materials due to the same economy of scale for purchasing raw materials. Its a win win.
However...cut to 20 years down the line.....car is no longer produced.....not nearly as many on the road.....and it uses a part that fits no new cars....and the dealer stocks of original quality parts are exhausted......and its fully in the hands of the aftermarket. It might even be molded by the same company that originally made it.
But.....this time around.....there will be no new tooling paid for by the original car company. Its all on the parts producer. And....this time around there will be no huge economy of scale.....no millions of parts per order to allow paying top notch QC labor or for buying the best materials at the cheapest price.
And in many cases there is not even enough money in it to make the parts on their best line in their best plant. So.....it goes with cheaper materials and to their lowest quality plant....probably in some 3rd world country.
And dont even get me started on the continuing design of the "pleated/ribbed" boot for CV joints. Totally unnecessary.
You can use a thicker rubber...make a single globe shaped joint....just like that used on a U-joint for a power take off unit. Thijk farm equipment.
Those have an even higher range of motion....and if you gasketed the inner face of the CV joint.....you can fully fill a globe shaped boot with grease......which will never back away from the bearing and will squeeze grease through the joint with every revolution.
Similar to this but with a wide crimp ring on the joint side.....obviously.
https://www.zoro.com/lovejoy-u-joint-boot-pk2-d-4/...nwQAvD_BwE
Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:29 am Post subject: Re: CV Joint Boots - Finally found some quality made boots that last |
|
|
The Japanese manufactures have these down to a science. I have a 2003 Highlander 2.4L with 246,XXX miles and the damn CV boots look brand new still.
Anyone know of any Japanese vehicle boot that'll work on a bus?
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:37 am Post subject: Re: CV Joint Boots - Finally found some quality made boots that last |
|
|
| udidwht wrote: |
The Japanese manufactures have these down to a science. I have a 2003 Highlander 2.4L with 246,XXX miles and the damn CV boots look brand new still.
Anyone know of any Japanese vehicle boot that'll work on a bus? |
I wouldnt say they have it down any better than the European car mfgs....in a technical sense.
Again.....understand what you are looking at. You are looking at a stock boot......on the car....when it was made....right? Or at worst....a replacement boot...again...from dealer stocks.
The Japanese car companies are no different than European car companies....or to a similar but probably lesser extent....US car companies.
They can and do buy the very best quality of rubber products....because they are bidding on a long run of parts in quantities of millions. Those excellent quality parts cost them less than poor quality parts cost us in the aftermarket.
They do this to protect their bottom line with warranty and reputation. The dealer stocks during the model run are usually original quality.....and they charge BIG $ for them....because its a profit stream.
I have also seen MANY watercooled Vw, Saab and Volvo.....that easily cruise 250K miles on the original boots over more than a decade in time. And just like you have seen with your Highlander.....whats really amazing more than the miles.....is the time factor.
With rubber products....time alone is JUST as much of a killer as mileage and ambient conditions. They all change over time. They outgas petroleum plasticizers, get less flexible and increase durometer.
But I will say this.....the Japanese aftermarket IS probably a good bit better. Their industries employ LEGALLY binding controls regarding quality. But their aftermarket is small. Most of their auto component mfg capability is absorbed directly supplying their OEM's. Its actually not that easy to find automotive replacement parts made in Japan except at specialty Japanese foreign shops......which are fewer now than they used to be 15 years ago or so.
Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:33 am Post subject: Re: CV Joint Boots - Finally found some quality made boots that last |
|
|
| Has anyone run the CV boots that carry a Ford part number but are the same size as the ones used by VW? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: CV Joint Boots - Finally found some quality made boots that last |
|
|
I have used this product to repair large format camera bellows, and wonder if it would make a 'fairly decent' exterior coating of the boot:
https://www.walmart.com/tp/plasti-dip
A spray applied exterior coating combined with a flexible shield interior to the boot may extend longevity. Seems like the total added cost for these two steps would be worh it.
I was thinking the interior shield could be made out of 1/8 sheet rubber, center-hole punched to be applied to the axle shaft when the boot is on and slid back, and the CV joint is still off (boot + shield + CV joint). It would have an outside diameter slightly large than the inside diameter of the boot's flange, so that when it is all assembled, it would 'cup' itself.
Obviously, the next controversy would be what type of rubber sheet material to use... yet if it starts to break down after three or four years or twice as many miles as you get now out of cheap boots, then surley it would be worth the added steps. It would simply need to last to the next CV joint servicing interval. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: CV Joint Boots - Finally found some quality made boots that last |
|
|
| Wasted youth wrote: |
I have used this product to repair large format camera bellows, and wonder if it would make a 'fairly decent' exterior coating of the boot:
https://www.walmart.com/tp/plasti-dip
A spray applied exterior coating combined with a flexible shield interior to the boot may extend longevity. Seems like the total added cost for these two steps would be worh it.
I was thinking the interior shield could be made out of 1/8 sheet rubber, center-hole punched to be applied to the axle shaft when the boot is on and slid back, and the CV joint is still off (boot + shield + CV joint). It would have an outside diameter slightly large than the inside diameter of the boot's flange, so that when it is all assembled, it would 'cup' itself.
Obviously, the next controversy would be what type of rubber sheet material to use... yet if it starts to break down after three or four years or twice as many miles as you get now out of cheap boots, then surley it would be worth the added steps. It would simply need to last to the next CV joint servicing interval. |
As a coating to keep external attack from road chemicals and ozone down...sure.....the concept is great.
It would not work well. The basic plasti-dip like that is vinyl. Vinyl does not do well with heat. Its one of teh worst things you could use in a location like this. Even without excessive heat vinyl begins shrinking the day its born.
That being said...Plasti-dip as an industrial coating company is fantastic. They have an industrial division that makes a fantastic range of coatings...that are totally different than their run of the mill stiff you find advertised or at hardware stores.
In fact....for the main uses...like dipping pliers handles...Plasti-dip is an excellent product. It also sounds like it would be excellent for what you are using it for. I have a Beseler 23C-2 enlarger (1952 model)...whose bellows could use some TLC and I might try that!
As for what kind of rubber sheet material to use...its part of what we have already been talking about here. The parts company's already know what to use. We do too. A high quality FKM rubber (Trade name is Viton)
But its expensive and not dead simple to work with.....and being super competitive and price conscious.....we are getting cheaper products because of it. Its also probable...that because its hard to formulate and cure properly....that a huge part of our problems are due not to manufacturers using the wrong material....but processing and mixing it poorly.
In fact....because you see such wide ranging results from many brands of boots....great success by one user and utter failure by another under largely the same conditions.....that poor processing is a big part of it.
As far as what you can use for an overcoat....well....I was not wanting to get into it here yet....I will mention that I have been working on a new CV boot design since last year.
Its a back burner project. So I have been testing a lot of elastomers....when I can afford to .....and some of them ...found their way into the grease testing project for an automotive parts mfg I do work for (dang...wonder how that happened? ).
I already have found one product that would make a fantastic outer coating. In fact...I am hoping it would make a perfect material for a dual layer boot.
Its actually a liquid FKM rubber. Its technically a liquid Viton.
Its also pretty stiff. The typical CV boot is about 45-50 durometer. This is 70 durometer. Its only designed to be used in a layer about .003" to .005" thick. In that thin of a layer its still very flexible. It only needs a thin outer layer to do what it needs to do.
Its also expensive.....about $300 a gallon.
The rest of the CV boot body thickness can be made of something different that also has no issues with grease. I have recently found some aerospace pourable casting silicone that are MADE specifically for oil and grease immersion....and are good to about 400 F.
I will see where it goes. Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
