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scottyrocks
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2016
Posts: 2665
Location: Long Island, NY
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 Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| Should there be a topic just for discussing greases? |
As lubrication is such an integral and necessary part of the steering box assembly, maybe so, but the info doesn't hurt here.
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mark tucker
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Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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yes a little sorry, but did learn about the super lube and it works in steering box good.and is available locally. witch cornheaded greasers arent every where. it's always good to know good substitutes that are more local.or else...some people would just use cornola oil or crisco...or whatever they find at the store.knowing super lube will do it is good. and it's good for more than just one job, sorry for the thread drift.
Last edited by mark tucker on Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| OKType3Tim wrote: |
UM, Did you guys go off topic here?
Which grease to use for steering boxes?
Which grease to use for wiper shafts?
Should there be a topic just for discussing greases? |
Trying not to get off topic....but I have found that the lube characteristics needed for say.... the wiper motor gearbox and the wiper shafts....is almost precisely the same as for the steering gearbox for the same reasons....extremely long fill life and intervals, specific metallurgy issues...and most importantly....low tack grease consistency and pump-ability.
I think mark tucker was seeing the lubrication need/characteristics in the steering gearbox lubes we were discussing....would fit right in with the wiper assembly....I agree.
We will stay on topic! 
Ray |
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Bobnotch
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Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| mark tucker wrote: |
| yes a little sorry, but did learn about the super lubs and it works in strreing box good.and is available localy. witch cornheaded gresers arent every where. it's always good to know good subistutes that are more local.or else...some people would just use cornola oil or crisco...or whatever they find at the store.knowing super lube will do it good. sorry for the thread drift. |
Have you tried Tractor Supply Co.? Or your local John Deere dealer?
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| mark tucker wrote: |
| yes a little sorry, but did learn about the super lubs and it works in strreing box good.and is available localy. witch cornheaded gresers arent every where. it's always good to know good subistutes that are more local.or else...some people would just use cornola oil or crisco...or whatever they find at the store.knowing super lube will do it good. sorry for the thread drift. |
Have you tried Tractor Supply Co.? Or your local John Deere dealer? |
Yep!...those are in fact the only two places you can get Corn Head grease here....but in Iowa....which I think is probably partially owned by John Deere  ...thats not a big deal.
Ray |
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OKType3Tim 
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Joined: April 30, 2011
Posts: 279
Location: Northeast Oklahoma
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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Yes! Agreed!
I think the corn head grease while it would run perfectly and very well on wiper shafts....I would not use it there because its lithium complex....but thats just me. As lomg as you change it out every 3-t years.....it should be great.
The wiper shafts are not sealed nearly as well as a steering box. Its the moisture I worry about with lithium grease. In a steering box....corn head grease can last for ages....because of no moisture and air. Ray |
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260KMN
Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2014
Posts: 236
Location: Devon UK
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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Ok Tim, i am just about to install the kit you sent me, thanks for that, but i have a question.
My 63 vintage box was full of oil, will it be ok to refill it with the green grease or does it need oil. By the way 55 year old oil stinks! Cheers Paul |
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OKType3Tim
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2011
Posts: 279
Location: Northeast Oklahoma
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| 260KMN wrote: |
Ok Tim, i am just about to install the kit you sent me, thanks for that, but i have a question.
My 63 vintage box was full of oil, will it be ok to refill it with the green grease or does it need oil. By the way 55 year old oil stinks! Cheers Paul |
So, you are saying that you have a "311.415.131" model. NOT a "311.415.131A" or "311.415.131B"; which means it has the threaded fill plug as shown in these pictures:
Since the roller to worm interface is the same across all versions of 311.415.131 models; I have used corn head grease in all versions.
However, since you have the original model which has a threaded plug, that means you can seal it closed. So going back with an original oil would be possible. If you use an oil, I would suggest you use some thread sealant such as this:
on the threads of the plug.
What oil to use? "Notes on the Practical Work, Subject No. 4" indicates that SAE 90 Hypoid oil is what was used. 160cc (5.4 oz).
Another tid-bit: the housings on the plain "131" models have a sump where oil is provided to the bottom of the output shaft. The "A" and "B" model housings do not have this sump. Plain on the left; "A" and "B" on the right:
Caveat: My opinion is that the one downside to going back with oil is that when the bottom seal wears out someday in the future, the oil will drain out quickly. The Corn Head grease is thixotropic, meaning that it "thickens" when it is not under a shearing load. And thus tends to stay in the housing. [Although it can still leak out if a seal is having a problem. As Josh and I proved just the other day.]
Um, so the answer is: You have a choice.
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260KMN
Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2014
Posts: 236
Location: Devon UK
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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Heres my box with the lid off for the first time in 50 odd years, i guess, and yes it was leaking out of the drop arm shaft seal.
I tried to source corn head grease here in the UK, i went to my local John Deere dealer and they had it on their system but said there was non in Europe, i called BS. So did some research and as i work in aerospace found Shell Aeroshell Grease 33 is very similar so am going to try it, its even green coloured. Yeah my box must be an early one, it does not have the centre indicating collar on the input shaft and has the threaded fill plug. |
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zuk
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 20
Location: Winchester, va
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:02 am Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| Thanks for the great work in this thread |
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OKType3Tim
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2011
Posts: 279
Location: Northeast Oklahoma
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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You are welcome.
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ibjack
Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2002
Posts: 2106
Location: Imperial Beach CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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Very helpful thread for me to improve my steering on my t34. Thanks
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OKType3Tim
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2011
Posts: 279
Location: Northeast Oklahoma
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| ibjack wrote: |
| Very helpful thread for me to improve my steering on my t34. Thanks |
You're Welcome.
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| 260KMN wrote: |
Heres my box with the lid off for the first time in 50 odd years, i guess, and yes it was leaking out of the drop arm shaft seal.
I tried to source corn head grease here in the UK, i went to my local John Deere dealer and they had it on their system but said there was non in Europe, i called BS. So did some research and as i work in aerospace found Shell Aeroshell Grease 33 is very similar so am going to try it, its even green coloured. Yeah my box must be an early one, it does not have the centre indicating collar on the input shaft and has the threaded fill plug. |
NO...the Aeroshell 33 is NOT the same. Its a great grease designed for high scuff and very cold ambient conditions flow....but its not actually a HIGHLY thixotropic grease.
I wrote a bit about it a few months back. Because we are speaking of greases that need to TECHNICALLY operate like a "thickened" gear oil....they need to be thin. This means a grease that is rated as an NLGI "0" or "00" class grease.
So they do not run out...being thixotropic....is perfect...meaning it liquefies instantly when squeezed between the gears....it also recovers almost instantly when its done being squeezed and becomes thick enough not to run out.
You need to look at the "worked Penetration" rating of the grease at bare minimum.
Here is what the worked penetration rating #'s of the 0 and 00 greases look like:
Here is the Aeroshell 33 grease spec sheet
So its actually an NLGI 2 "normal grease consistency.
Ray |
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zuk
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Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 20
Location: Winchester, va
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btreft
Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2016
Posts: 5
Location: Sacramento
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| I am rebuilding a steering box on my type 1 and was curious if anyone has actually used the superlube in their box and how well it worked as that is the most accessible for me of the lubes discussed here |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| btreft wrote: |
| I am rebuilding a steering box on my type 1 and was curious if anyone has actually used the superlube in their box and how well it worked as that is the most accessible for me of the lubes discussed here |
Yes...I have. Its better than regular NLGI 2 bearing grease because technically its shear rate spans NLGI 2 and 0 consistency.
Its similar to Vaseline in consistency. Very soft. Unlike a regular bearing grease though...it does not get noticeably stiff when it gets cold. Thats what makes it pretty decent.
While not as liquid and shear thinning as Corn head grease....it works pretty damn good. But you need to pack it pretty much air free.
Last time I used it in a type 4 steering box...I cut it 50/50 with Superlube ISO 460 gear oil....which is between an 85-140 and a straight 140 weight gear oil. Since they have much of teh same ingredients...they mix with no issues.
I blended them with a drill mixer into essentially a gel...that is about the consistency of a thick honey or slightly melted Vaseline. It allowed me to pump it in with a squeeze bottle. It works very well. Its thin enough to pump and thick enough that your seal would almost have to be missing for it to leak out. Ray |
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74 Thing
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Joined: September 02, 2004
Posts: 7393
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| Yes, I use the Super Lube as well for the steering box. When I had the top of the box off I also drilled and tapped the refill holes for 1/8 NPT and used a plug to seal. |
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racoguy
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Joined: May 15, 2010
Posts: 687
Location: new zealand
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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My TRW (new) in my T34 Ghia feels terrible so thanks to your thread I've pulled my 55 yo OG box from storage and taken it apart.
Its looks really good inside, no real wear on the bearing cages etc and was full of a honey like consistency oil which has probably preserved it.
To get the bearing race and shim out I machined a piece of copper down to 23.90mm and used that as a drift, bearing race and shim came out with no damage at all.
I have pmd you about one of your kits.
Unfortunately I don't have a fixture but I'll just have to do the best I can without one.
Thanks again for starting this thread, been a great help.
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