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Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild
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racoguy
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

Since there is no corn head grease available here I searched and came across this Penrite steering box lube, your thoughts gents?
http://www.classicgroup.net.nz/product_pcid_36.html
http://www.classicgroup.net.nz/product_pcid_38.html
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

racoguy wrote:
Since there is no corn head grease available here I searched and came across this Penrite steering box lube, your thoughts gents?
http://www.classicgroup.net.nz/product_pcid_36.html
http://www.classicgroup.net.nz/product_pcid_38.html


From reading Pennrite's spec sheet on line;
https://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/tech_pdfs_new/Grease_brochure.pdf
I believe that those are both the same product. Just packaging for the "steering box" version. Purchase the most economical packaging.

Ray?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:23 am    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

Received your kit in the mail on Friday so I got to work on it a little today.
Set the roller shaft adjuster shim with the new circlip which all seems good.
My question is regarding the center point of the worm shaft, my original box no longer has the split ring on the shaft and I don't have a fixture either.

Is it acceptable to work out center by counting turns lock to lock and halving that?
I did notice a slot in the end of the roller shaft where the drop arm attaches and wondered if that could be used as a center point marker.
From what I looked at today the half round relief for the coupler bolt ends up sitting roughly at a 45 deg angle when the steering box is "centered"
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

racoguy wrote:

Is it acceptable to work out center by counting turns lock to lock and halving that?


Yes, you can do that in conjunction with the following:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This image has the unit in the fixture. Note that the centering pin (lower right red arrow) is inserted into the correct hole in the drop arm. I've made a mark on the worm shaft where "center" of the worm shaft is. (upper left red arrow) Notice that the worm shaft is parrallel to the drop arm. (the two yellow lines) So, yes; figure out the middle by the turns of the worm shaft from lock-to-lock and then verify that you have the drop arm parallel to the worm shaft.

Here is an additional tip:
The Bentley manual specifies that the "no-=play" zone for used shafts should be 3-7 degrees of roller shaft movement both left turn and right turn.
For new shafts the specification is 9-13 degrees of roller shaft movement both left turn and right turn.

After some experience, I realized that 5 degrees of roller shaft movement is created by 90 degrees of worm shaft (steering wheel) movement and that 180 degrees of worm shaft (steering wheel) creates 10 degrees of roller shaft movement. That makes it pretty easy to turn the worm shaft back and forth as you adjust the roller shaft adjustment screw.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

Here's what I did without a fixture, marked the inut shaft with a marker where I thought center was. Rotating full lock left and full lock right told me I was a little off so rubbed the mark off and repositioned. Took a few goes to get it bang on.

From there I attached a pointer to the drop arm (RHD one pictured) and marked 11 deg on a piece of cardboard.
Messed around with that a bit but actually as Tim stated 90 deg turn of the coupler is about 5 deg at the drop arm which is actually far easier and more accurate.
I slid my coupling on to the input shaft where the slot lines up with my center mark so from there its very easy to go 90 or 180 deg in either direction.

I was able to set it at about 10 deg either way with no play and its ever so slightly tighter in the center position but still extremely easy to turn by hand with the coupler or without it.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:56 am    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

racoguy wrote:

I was able to set it at about 10 deg either way with no play and its ever so slightly tighter in the center position but still extremely easy to turn by hand with the coupler or without it.


Applause Applause Applause
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:40 am    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

Sorry I missed answering earlier.....yes...Pennright grease should be excellent.

Really what you are looking for is a 0 or 00 NLGI rating in a grease. This means it is semi-fluid. While the Corn head grease may have an advantage in that it is specifically made to "shear thin" and recover quickly.....this does NOT mean that the other 0 and 00 greases do not shear thin as well. They just may or may not shear thin as much or as quickly.

While the very high shear thinning attribute of Corn Head grease is a feature and a bonus.....just having a grease be a 0 or 00 is the biggest attribute for steering box needs. It will have enough "liquid" attribute to flow or be squeezed easily through the bearings and gears.....but have enough thickened grease attribute to not flow out past shaft seals and o-rings.

For reference.....and NLGI 2 is your standard soft wheel bearing grease. It is described in lista of greases as having a consistency of "smooth peanut butter".
The NLGI 0 grease is about half again softer and listed as having a consistency of "brown mustard"....which I find to be a stupid description if you have ever seen the huge range of briwn mustards out there.... Laughing .....but really its about like mayoknaise or warm but whipped butter.....meaning a 0 grease will rarely if ever flow like a liquid until it gets warm.....and in that case....a blob of it will slowly flow out flat.....it is roughly half the stiffness of an NLGI 2 bearing grease.

The NLGI 00....is listed as a semi fluid. Its consistency is said to be close to apple sauce.....so it has body.....but will almost always slowly flow out into a thick mass at room temp or warmer.

Really....corn head grease is a "0" grease or somewhere between a 2 and a 0. Its clqim to fqme is that when you squeeze it.....it goes from that state to a 00 in the blink of an eye. Ray
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

This week I opened up a brand new TRW steering box. The unit had never been on a car, the shaft had never been turned. While the body of the housing was completely full of grease; the lower worm bearing had not been greased during assembly at the factory. It was completely dry:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


When the lower adjusting nut is installed, the bearing grease load should look like this:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


With a grease load and thread sealant on the nut:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It is possible to take a new TRW unit, work it over, and have a usable unit. But in my opinion, don't try to just take it out of the shipping box and go straight onto the vehicle.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

Thank you!

With your write up as a guide. I went ahead and had two sets of seals sent to me, in anticipation of rebuilding one of the two steering boxes I have sitting on my shelf.

Today was the day that I tore down, cleaned, assembled and checked the free play at the shaft on an old worn out box. Your report on how to tackle this job was impecable. Great job! And thank you for sharing!

I now have a great working steering box!
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

I just had a thought thanks to tims last few photos, I may add a gressee fitting to the pinion bearing end cap too!! I was also thinking about adding one in the lower part of the lower bushing. be ware if you do add gressee fittings and seal the box tight you may push out the seal when pumping greessee in ....always remove a plug to vent before pumping. As always thanks to tim for this thread and time to figure all this stuff out for us.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

First, I must send a thank you to OKType3Tim! I've now gone over every page of this thread in anticipation of rebuilding my '66 beetle's steering box and the vast amount of good information is beyond amazing. Thank you to all the other contributors as well! I was just about to pull the trigger on a TRW box when I found this thread.

I wanted to post up some pictures of my steering box now that I have completely disassembled and cleaned it. Looks to be original to my car. All parts look really nice except for the brass bushing in the roller shaft. Unfortunately I must have missed the part about filing down the teeth on the shaft prior to removal. It gouged some lines in the bushing. Maybe not a big deal?

Tim, if you think it would be more appropriate for me to start my own thread just let me know and I'm happy to. I don't want to take away from your effort, but this is pretty relevant.

Here are the pictures.

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Thoughts/advise/tips welcome! This is my first steering box rebuild. I plan on purchasing Tim's kit soon.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

No problem with posting these last pictures up. It helps everyone understand.
Here are my comments:
Worm Shaft: The wear pattern is to the bottom of the groove in the center section. If I was going to proceed with rebuilding this unit I would replace the worm shaft. Worm shafts are available here:
https://socalautoparts.com/shop/front-suspension/s...ering-box/

Worm bearings: The pictures show that the bearing cages are riding on the race. Note the horizontal line/groove in the cage. This induces some drag as you turn the worm shaft. Since at final assembly I like to have the torque around 5 Inch-pounds; I'm a nut about removing any drag.

Roller shaft: Make sure you don't have any flat spots on the surface of the roller. The wear is pretty close to the bottom of the groove, but there is still some left. If the side play between the roller and the roller washer is under .002 inch, no flat spots, roller turns freely; then I would reuse it.

Lower bushing: See if you can dress it up a bit with some 1000 grit paper. Get the roller shaft bottom end dressed to where it will slide back in smoothly and make sure you don't have any excessive slop between the shaft and the lower bushing.

Top bushing in the cover plate: Just starting to get the wear groove which is a combination of "lack of lube" and "over-tight adjustment of the top adjuster screw". I think it will be ok.

Worm Shim: That is the thinnest one, and yes it is almost impossible to get it out without deforming it.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

OKType3Tim wrote:
Worm Shaft: The wear pattern is to the bottom of the groove in the center section. If I was going to proceed with rebuilding this unit I would replace the worm shaft. Worm shafts are available here:
https://socalautoparts.com/shop/front-suspension/s...ering-box/


It looks really good in person, but yes, I see now that that center wear line is just about to bottom out. Good eye! I'll be ordering a new one.

OKType3Tim wrote:
Worm bearings: The pictures show that the bearing cages are riding on the race. Note the horizontal line/groove in the cage. This induces some drag as you turn the worm shaft. Since at final assembly I like to have the torque around 5 Inch-pounds; I'm a nut about removing any drag.


Before I began disassembly it turned very freely, but there was some major grinding. Guess you pointed out the source of that!

OKType3Tim wrote:
Roller shaft: Make sure you don't have any flat spots on the surface of the roller. The wear is pretty close to the bottom of the groove, but there is still some left. If the side play between the roller and the roller washer is under .002 inch, no flat spots, roller turns freely; then I would reuse it.


It turns supper smooth all the way around, but I'll have to check the side play. I can't move the roller side to side at all, but I'll see what the gauges say.

OKType3Tim wrote:
Lower bushing: See if you can dress it up a bit with some 1000 grit paper. Get the roller shaft bottom end dressed to where it will slide back in smoothly and make sure you don't have any excessive slop between the shaft and the lower bushing.


Will do. I did use a little emery cloth, but I still can't fit the shaft back in through the bushing. Should it go in by hand with no tapping?

OKType3Tim wrote:
Top bushing in the cover plate: Just starting to get the wear groove which is a combination of "lack of lube" and "over-tight adjustment of the top adjuster screw". I think it will be ok.


That slight wear line in the center of the bushing is all I can see and it doesn't extend around the circumference, just what is in the picture. I'll polish it lightly with 1000 grit as well.

OKType3Tim wrote:
Worm Shim: That is the thinnest one, and yes it is almost impossible to get it out without deforming it.


I think it actually deformed when I worked the worm shaft out. The technique using the seal to pound the race and shim out worked extremely well.

For the record, here is a picture of the box pre-disassembly, and cracked open:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And where my upper adjustment was set:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


One more question. What Bentley manual is the rebuilding procedure in? I have two Type 1 manuals and neither goes into much detail.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

Bala wrote:
I did use a little emery cloth, but I still can't fit the shaft back in through the bushing. Should it go in by hand with no tapping?


Yes, it should slide in nice and smooth. Years of road shocks to the drop arm creates deformation on the bottom of the roller shaft. Work on these areas:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Typical "low on lube"

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Bala wrote:
One more question. What Bentley manual is the rebuilding procedure in? I have two Type 1 manuals and neither goes into much detail.

Both the Bentley Type 3 Workshop Manual
and the Bentley Type 3 Service Manual
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1346321
have good documentation. And also this:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/practicalwork_steering.php
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

Thanks for the heads up on the Bentley info!

Polished up the upper part of the roller.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I used a little 150 grit sandpaper to carefully knock down the high points on the roller shaft then finished it of with some 1500 I had laying around.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


1500 grit on the lower bushing. I can still feel the gouges slightly, but itís much better.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


**edit** There seems to be a seam in the lower bushing as well.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Polished the top bushing with more 1500. Looks much better, but is that seam in the second picture normal?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


After working over the roller shaft as you suggested it now fits very nicely into the housing.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


My thinnest feeler gauge is .007Ē so Iíll have to wait to check the side to side play.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

yes, the factory bushings are a split seam design. the vertical line/split is normal.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:33 am    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

Ah, cool, good to know!
Just shot you a message about ordering your rebuild kit. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

Just make sure your corn head is properly greased..

You need to make sure you use Corn Head Grease,
Otherwise, your corn head might end up totally not greased.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

Nobody wants their corn head to be all sticky,
Or squeaky, or otherwise not just flow.

Gotta have the flow... Cool
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

Read through this thread twice very informative thank you for all the contributors I just finished redoing my 67 dune buggy steering box one thing I found with the corn head Grease is I used an old meat injector syringe and it was perfect because I was able to stick the needle way down in to the box and squirt the grease to fill it and then it was also very handy when filling up after the cap was on I was actually able to fill it all the way and then suck some back out to create the air pocket very very handy
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