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OKType3Tim 
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2011
Posts: 279
Location: Northeast Oklahoma
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 Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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Grego, and others:
Thanks for the kind words.
I've worked with Marcel @ VWNOS to find another batch of bearings. Fortunately, Marcel was able to located a small supply that he should have available soon. As with all things, they will be a bit more expensive than the batch I found 3+ years ago.
Also, Wolfsburg West has the gasket for the top cover. It might have been out of stock for a bit, but their web site shows it being available now.
Tim
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'69 Squareback restoration
'69 Fastback restoration
'66 Type34 |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21507
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| OKType3Tim wrote: |
Grego, and others:
Thanks for the kind words.
I've worked with Marcel @ VWNOS to find another batch of bearings. Fortunately, Marcel was able to located a small supply that he should have available soon. As with all things, they will be a bit more expensive than the batch I found 3+ years ago.
Also, Wolfsburg West has the gasket for the top cover. It might have been out of stock for a bit, but their web site shows it being available now.
Tim |
Tim...I will check but I think these are the same part number bearing for my type 4 box. Would it be possible to buy a set/pair when you get them in hand?
Ray |
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Grego in Sac
Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2019
Posts: 154
Location: Sac, CA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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Tim,
Do you think we could try using a timkin taper roller bearing instead of the ball bearing ones?
And are the two bearings the same? |
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OKType3Tim
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2011
Posts: 279
Location: Northeast Oklahoma
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| Grego in Sac wrote: |
Tim,
Do you think we could try using a timkin taper roller bearing instead of the ball bearing ones?
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The bearing in this steering box only has one race. The opposing race is provided by the worm shaft. This is true for the bearings at both ends of the worm shaft. Thus, a taper roller bearing isn't going to have a race to bear against unless you machine the worm shaft to provide that race.
_________________
'69 Squareback restoration
'69 Fastback restoration
'66 Type34 |
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OKType3Tim
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2011
Posts: 279
Location: Northeast Oklahoma
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
Tim...I will check but I think these are the same part number bearing for my type 4 box. Would it be possible to buy a set/pair when you get them in hand?
Ray |
Ray, Yes we visited about them being the same way back there 3 years ago. Sure, check with VWNOS to get a set.
Tim
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'69 Squareback restoration
'69 Fastback restoration
'66 Type34 |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21507
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:43 am Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| OKType3Tim wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
Tim...I will check but I think these are the same part number bearing for my type 4 box. Would it be possible to buy a set/pair when you get them in hand?
Ray |
Ray, Yes we visited about them being the same way back there 3 years ago. Sure, check with VWNOS to get a set.
Tim |
Perfect! Thanks!
Ray |
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Tvättbjörn
Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2004
Posts: 1431
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:48 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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What would be the cross reference part number for the bearings? Can not find any SKF or FAG numbers online. I am sure that they sold them "aftermarket" also and not only thru VW
vw 311 415 227 to SKF or FAG |
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Grego in Sac
Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2019
Posts: 154
Location: Sac, CA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| Tvättbjörn wrote: |
What would be the cross reference part number for the bearings? Can not find any SKF or FAG numbers online. I am sure that they sold them "aftermarket" also and not only thru VW
vw 311 415 227 to SKF or FAG |
In the US, you will find just a few sets of original ones available. You can find some in Europe but depending on where you live postage can get expensive.
There is this ad
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2323084
It’s in Australia but the postal fee is very reasonable |
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OKType3Tim
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2011
Posts: 279
Location: Northeast Oklahoma
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| Tvättbjörn wrote: |
What would be the cross reference part number for the bearings? Can not find any SKF or FAG numbers online. I am sure that they sold them "aftermarket" also and not only thru VW
vw 311 415 227 to SKF or FAG |
For "late steering box"; part numbers are about half-way down on first page of this thread.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=660446&highlight=
| Grego in Sac wrote: |
In the US, you will find just a few sets of original ones available. You can find some in Europe but depending on where you live postage can get expensive.
There is this ad
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2323084
It’s in Australia but the postal fee is very reasonable |
I believe those are for the "early" steering box, different from the "late" steering box.
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'69 Squareback restoration
'69 Fastback restoration
'66 Type34 |
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6588
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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I received the bearings in industrial packaging. I'll repackage them as they sell.
They are available here: https://www.vwnos.com/508620b
If ya'll need anything else I can look at sourcing it.
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www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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OKType3Tim
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2011
Posts: 279
Location: Northeast Oklahoma
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Tvättbjörn
Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2004
Posts: 1431
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| I did contact the guys for the rollershaft, but shipping was like $80 which kills the deal. Based on that and the cost of all other parts it is maybe better just to buy a new TRW unit and recheck everything before it is being installed ?!? |
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sjbartnik
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5993
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| Tvättbjörn wrote: |
| I did contact the guys for the rollershaft, but shipping was like $80 which kills the deal. Based on that and the cost of all other parts it is maybe better just to buy a new TRW unit and recheck everything before it is being installed ?!? |
And then what if something is not right? By opening the unit you will have voided any warranty. But you will have to open the unit to disassemble it, clean out the grease they use, then reassemble with proper shims and corn head grease.
Another option is it may be economical to buy the TRW unit just for the worm and roller, then scrap the rest and build the new box up in your old housing.
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Tvättbjörn
Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2004
Posts: 1431
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| sjbartnik wrote: |
| Tvättbjörn wrote: |
| I did contact the guys for the rollershaft, but shipping was like $80 which kills the deal. Based on that and the cost of all other parts it is maybe better just to buy a new TRW unit and recheck everything before it is being installed ?!? |
And then what if something is not right? By opening the unit you will have voided any warranty. But you will have to open the unit to disassemble it, clean out the grease they use, then reassemble with proper shims and corn head grease.
Another option is it may be economical to buy the TRW unit just for the worm and roller, then scrap the rest and build the new box up in your old housing.
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That is what I was talking about. Just for the roller and worm shaft. You can check first if the steering arm fits the splines before you take it apart. Just to be on the safe side.
I am at the point that I actually check and measure parts / open boxes and inspect items at the stores whenever possible, because quality and quality control has gone down across the board. Had factory sealed undamaged boxes with beat-up items in it which was not transport damage. The bad parts / tools / items were put in boxes at the factory. Appears too many people do not care anymore. |
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6588
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| sjbartnik wrote: |
And then what if something is not right? By opening the unit you will have voided any warranty.
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If you buy them from me I can take them back if they have been opened. You will need to document why they are bad. You have to prove it came from the manufacturer like that. It's a case by case basis.
For example, the only issue I have seen is they sent out a bad steering spline once. This was a steering box Tim has purchased from me. He sent it back and I sent him out a new one.
_________________
www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6588
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| OKType3Tim wrote: |
Since the kits are used up---The question has been posed several times of "what to do?", "where can I get ________?"
The following is a fairly complete list, provided that the bushings in your unit are still good:
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If you need bushings let me know. I can have them copied but I will need a quality original to match up the metal. It should be a VW one. I did this for Bosch distributors.
_________________
www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5469
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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This is THE thread on theSamba for steering boxes. Any more current info about the non TRW replacement boxes?
I'm also interested in what diagnostic testing I can do on assembled boxes. What I can measure? For example, I suspect where the tightest spot in the adjustment is located is a hint about wear in the worm shaft bearings that is being taken up by adjustment. There has been discussion about how the height of the adjuster screw shows how much roller adjuster range is left. What else can be figured out while assembled?
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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duncan1958
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2017
Posts: 31
Location: spain
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:15 am Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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| EVfun wrote: |
This is THE thread on theSamba for steering boxes. Any more current info about the non TRW replacement boxes?
I'm also interested in what diagnostic testing I can do on assembled boxes. What I can measure? For example, I suspect where the tightest spot in the adjustment is located is a hint about wear in the worm shaft bearings that is being taken up by adjustment. There has been discussion about how the height of the adjuster screw shows how much roller adjuster range is left. What else can be figured out while assembled? |
The only real way to to clean and strip down and inspect and measure for wear on the various parts and bearings,
Read through all the pages here there is a wealth of information on how and where to look for wear. |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5469
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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Before I start tearing into a box I would rather plunk money down for a new or rebuild box. If I go that route I may go with an older work and sector box. It's going in a buggy that will see a couple thousand miles a year.
I'm holding a reproduction box that doesn't say TRW on it and while it feels smooth when turning the rag joint it doesn't feel as smooth when pushing the arm back, notchy feeling especially returning a full right turn (more so than from full left.) I've been looking for info about this boxes, but only a little here or in other threads and not much recent.
I have an older worm and roller box, the kind with the pipe plug on top designed for oil. I will adjust it before rating it but the roller is turning when I turn the rag joint. The strait STP I filled it with a couple years ago seems to have greatly slowed leakage. A little has escaped out the bottom but it's still mostly covering the roller and is nicely drug over and around it when I turn the rag joint.
I am hoping the experience here, this thread in particular, could offer some info about what problems feel like.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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koiboy
Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2011
Posts: 11
Location: Cumbria,United Kingdom
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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Hi,
First of all thanks for the great thread its been really useful during the tear down of my steering box.
I have now completely dis assembled my steering box.
The issue I have is there was no shim on the worm gear.
It is an original vw steering box and still had genuine vw oil seals fitted. Prior to the rebuild the steering box felt smooth. I decided for a rebuild as I am doing a full restoration of my 1970 beetle.
What are the diementions of the shims. I saw earlier in thethere are varying widths but no mention of od or Id.
I guess I am going to have to buy the varying width of shims to work out which I need to take any play out?
Also what length of grub screws do you uses to replace the plastic plugs?
Any tips would be much appreciated
Elliot |
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