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OKType3Tim Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2011 Posts: 279 Location: Northeast Oklahoma
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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The plastic plugs are available and inexpensive. My approach it to just use them. But your call on whether you want to tap and put in a threaded solution.
If there was no shim, and the unit operated satisfactorily, then the tolerance of that particular unit didn't require a shim. I say just go back without it. The shim doesn't affect the play. The shim is used to set the 'middle point'.
Page 5 & 6 in particular of this:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/practicalwork_steering.php
Tim _________________ '69 Squareback restoration
'69 Fastback restoration
'66 Type34 |
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koiboy Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2011 Posts: 11 Location: Cumbria,United Kingdom
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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Hi Tim,thanks for getting back to me. The drawings will be really useful. Are the plugs generic nylon plugs?
Does anyone know where to source them in the UK?
Kind Regards
Elliot |
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ST Dog Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2018 Posts: 81 Location: Rocket City USA
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steve_mezz Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2020 Posts: 49 Location: California
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Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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Are the bearings the same across the board? (All years and models)
Will they fit my ‘74 Super Beetle? |
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DeltaBravo Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2016 Posts: 179 Location: Long Beach, CA
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OKType3Tim Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2011 Posts: 279 Location: Northeast Oklahoma
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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:58 am Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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DeltaBravo wrote: |
My gear box was (rackety) very rough when moving the steering shaft by hand.
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I have seen this very, very often in the teardowns that I have done. I don't know for sure, but my guess has always been that it is some combination of contaminated grease from years of condensation and some times just outright water intrusion. _________________ '69 Squareback restoration
'69 Fastback restoration
'66 Type34 |
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DeltaBravo Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2016 Posts: 179 Location: Long Beach, CA
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W1K1 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004 Posts: 4921 Location: Southern AB
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:28 am Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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Quote: |
it could be water intrusion...
But I didn't see any evidence to support that. No moisture, no rust or other signs of corrosion.
My guess, it is a metallurgy issue. Especially since you've mentioned seeing this in a lot of steering gear boxes. I think the surface isn't hard enough (or softer than the bearings) to handle the pressures. |
It definitely isn't water, bearing races are like roads, start with a small particle in the grease, and it causes a pot hole, the debris from the pot hole causes more pot holes. The end play may have been too tight and the bearing started grinding into the surface starting the pot hole and the whole process especially since its moving so slow compared to a wheel bearing. _________________ http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
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DeltaBravo Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2016 Posts: 179 Location: Long Beach, CA
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Cptn. Calzone Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2007 Posts: 1855 Location: S>E>Alabama
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:55 am Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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I am of the opinion that if we can take the old cranks and build them up with hard Weld and turn them into a stroker crank and then cut them back down the technology does exist although it would be on a radius a bit more tricky to cut back and it would be cutting hard well to _________________ 71 westfalia
67 912 Porsche Quintilla
67 Single Cab aka my work horse |
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DeltaBravo Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2016 Posts: 179 Location: Long Beach, CA
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6609 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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Can you run a weld over the shaft and then put it on a lathe to take it back down to spec? _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5481 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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Another idea... Can the bearing races be turned off and new bearings with races be installed? That could avoid changing the heat treatment of the worm gear. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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DeltaBravo Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2016 Posts: 179 Location: Long Beach, CA
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cellobus1 Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014 Posts: 284 Location: East Tennessee
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Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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Currently rehabbing a Thing box. I discovered that the adjusting screw with the huge lock ring around it can be removed with the same chainsaw wrench that some are using to install TSIIs in FI Type IV motors. The one that looks like a corn-cob pipe. The exterior of the 19 mm (spark plug) side was for me, at least, a perfect fit in the screw. A couple taps on the wrench shaft with a hammer and off she goes.
Thank you for a great thread!
Andy _________________ 1976 unrestored daily driver Standard bus, "Stella"
formerly, 1959 Standard bus
formerly, 1973 transporter which was 4 years old when it taught me to drive |
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DeltaBravo Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2016 Posts: 179 Location: Long Beach, CA
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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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DeltaBravo wrote: |
Quote: |
Another idea... Can the bearing races be turned off and new bearings with races be installed? That could avoid changing the heat treatment of the worm gear. |
Quote: |
Can you run a weld over the shaft and then put it on a lathe to take it back down to spec? |
I'm not a machinist but I'm sure both can be done. But at what cost? If I had the knowledge and means, I could justify doing something like this. But since I don't have either the knowledge or means, I sure this process would cost a bit. But I don't know that either...
Maybe it would be $100.... but prolly more like $300.
Any machinist out there that could shed some light? In the mean time, I'm going to ask my local guy and report back. |
Well...
The local Machinist I've used for several different types of engine with great results unfortunately does not have the capability to create the radius needed at both ends of the shaft to support the roller bearings.
There was another place mentioned that might be able to do it, but I've been warned that it might be very expensive. I will reach out to them and confirm.
In the mean time, I put mine back together with all the original parts (replacing only the seals and grease) with the CornHead stuff... And well... it seems ok right now. It moves a lot better. I know that isn't a "scientific" test result but it does feel better. So, I am going to use it for now. _________________ 1976 Bus, 2.0 Hydraulic lifters, Manual.
My engine rebuild. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=656536&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8444317#8444317
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673255&highlight=
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=674097&highlight=
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672791&highlight=
1988 Porsche 911 Carrera Cab
1987 Buick Grand National |
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OKType3Tim Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2011 Posts: 279 Location: Northeast Oklahoma
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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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I guess I'm missing something as to why go to a lot of machining effort when you can just to this:
https://socalautoparts.com/product/worm-drive-roller-style-for-steering-box/
for $35 plus shipping. The worm shaft you can buy for $35 is just fine. _________________ '69 Squareback restoration
'69 Fastback restoration
'66 Type34 |
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DeltaBravo Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2016 Posts: 179 Location: Long Beach, CA
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5481 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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I did not realize you could just get that part. It isn't quite right, why is the steering coupler clamp bolt spot a long flat on the shaft? Stock was a rounded notch for the bolt that clamps the steering coupler onto the shaft. Replacement boxes seem to have that long clamp area too. Still, for a normal street driven restore that should be fine. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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OKType3Tim Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2011 Posts: 279 Location: Northeast Oklahoma
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild |
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EVfun wrote: |
It isn't quite right, why is the steering coupler clamp bolt spot a long flat on the shaft? Stock was a rounded notch for the bolt that clamps the steering coupler onto the shaft. Replacement boxes seem to have that long clamp area too. |
Your observation of the difference is correct.
So, this allows for adjustability of the coupler flange along the axis of the worm shaft. Thus, allowing a single worm shaft part to cover vehicles that have slightly different dimensions for steering column length in relation to the actual location of the front beam. I.E. The manufacturing fit-up of our vehicles isn't guaranteed to be that precise year-to-year, country-to-country. Not to mention 60-70 years of previous owners and repair folks working on your vehicle. _________________ '69 Squareback restoration
'69 Fastback restoration
'66 Type34 |
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