Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts New!  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 20, 21, 22
Jump to:
Forum Index -> Type 3 Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
kwalker
Samba Member


Joined: November 22, 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Tucson, AZ
kwalker is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:40 am    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

Very late to the game, but just to check, I have a 1964 Type 1 with steering box 113.415.131. It has the single (oil) plug in the top.

I see from cross references that the bearings are the same.
Are the seals, worm shaft, and roller shaft the same? I have read the thread through twice. It appears that it is possibly so but have not found it clearly enough stated (maybe just overly cautious). Anybody confirmed it?

The practical guide says to replace the lid of the box if changing from oil to grease. I see in the thread that OKType3Tim recommends changing to CORNHEADGREASE, but are there any special tricks to deal with the single opening top? I guess another motivation to switch from the SAE90 Hypoid oil is the discussion earlier in this thread that they have changed the formulations of oils and it probably would not be a true SAE 90 anymore. (per some comments RayGreenwood said R.E. oils and greases)
Thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
OKType3Tim Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 30, 2011
Posts: 252
Location: Northeast Oklahoma
OKType3Tim is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

kwalker wrote:
I have a 1964 Type 1 with steering box 113.415.131. It has the single (oil) plug in the top.


Not sure about your part number that you listed.
To clarify:
111.415.131--- is early generation steering box. Really large fill plug.
311.415.131--- late/current generation steering box. 1 small threaded fill plug.
311.415.131A-- late/current generation steering box. 2 fill holes closed with plastic plugs

311.415.131 and 311.415.131A are internally the same. Seals are the same. The change is that they went from gear lube to semi-liquid grease. In the rebuilds that I have done, I have used Corn Head Grease in both versions.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This picture shows the top of the early (111.415.131) unit:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

(Which, By-the-way, is designed to leak. The surfaces at the blue arrows are a metal-to-metal seal. 60 years since it was manufactured---yes, it is going to leak.)
_________________
'69 Squareback restoration
'69 Fastback restoration
'66 Type34
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kwalker
Samba Member


Joined: November 22, 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Tucson, AZ
kwalker is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

Your response prompted me to go back to the garage and take a picture. Because I could look at the picture, I could read it right side up. I see it IS 311. It is the pre-A version with a single filler hole. Hm, so it may have had grease in it. Thank you.
It works great, but I want to acquire and rebuild a spare so I can swap it out and not have my car inoperable for another 5 months while I rebuild the original steering box.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EVfun
Samba Member


Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 4097
Location: Seattle
EVfun is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

kwalker wrote:
Your response prompted me to go back to the garage and take a picture. Because I could look at the picture, I could read it right side up. I see it IS 311. It is the pre-A version with a single filler hole. Hm, so it may have had grease in it. Thank you.
It works great, but I want to acquire and rebuild a spare so I can swap it out and not have my car inoperable for another 5 months while I rebuild the original steering box.

Is there anything functionally wrong with your original steering box? I ask because these things are pretty tough so if it hasn't been run without any lube or exposed to the elements so water can intrude it may be good. I have recently made the choice to use my '64 box instead of a new one. I posted the stuff below a couple pages back and it seems like a good time to finish the report.

EVfun wrote:
Before I start tearing into a box I would rather plunk money down for a new or rebuild box. If I go that route I may go with an older work and sector box. It's going in a buggy that will see a couple thousand miles a year.

I'm holding a reproduction box that doesn't say TRW on it and while it feels smooth when turning the rag joint it doesn't feel as smooth when pushing the arm back, notchy feeling especially returning a full right turn (more so than from full left.) I've been looking for info about this boxes, but only a little here or in other threads and not much recent.

I have an older worm and roller box, the kind with the pipe plug on top designed for oil. I will adjust it before rating it but the roller is turning when I turn the rag joint. The strait STP I filled it with a couple years ago seems to have greatly slowed leakage. A little has escaped out the bottom but it's still mostly covering the roller and is nicely drug over and around it when I turn the rag joint.

I am hoping the experience here, this thread in particular, could offer some info about what problems feel like.


I was not comfortable with the new box and that roughness when pushing on the steering arm. It had a really "mushy" feel about the adjustment setting without the super clear center of travel no play zone I expected.

On my old box I loosed the roller adjusting screw then adjusted the worm bearings so it was smooth with no play (a tiny fraction of a turn on that adjustment.) I then put the roller shaft screw back where it was and adjusted from there. I can see there has been some wear in the worm bearings because the rag joint coupler is not quite strait up and down at the center of the no play zone. I can also notice that the adjuster screw is a bit lower than some, but still has threads to use. The no play zone is a full half turn and you can feel in the slight torque it takes to turn that there is a center range of about 45 degrees of no change in torque. The worm is factory machined to be tightest at the center to allow for wear, it has worn in some around the center, perhaps this buggy was towed behind a motorhome at some point in its past.

With the box back on the beam I discovered something else -- it does not leak any oil out of the bottom seal. The leak is entirely from the upper shaft seal, it just fills the little well below it and then runs down if I don't wipe it up. That explains why the box never ran out of oil. I fold up a paper towel and placed it under the worm gear shaft to pick up the oil. It stays there when the steering is turned. If it gets saturated I'll replace it and top off the box with oil.
_________________
Wildthings wrote:
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kwalker
Samba Member


Joined: November 22, 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Tucson, AZ
kwalker is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

EVfun wrote:

Is there anything functionally wrong with your original steering box? I ask because these things are pretty tough so if it hasn't been run without any lube or exposed to the elements so water can intrude it may be good. I have recently made the choice to use my '64 box instead of a new one. I posted the stuff below a couple pages back and it seems like a good time to finish the report.


My present box is, I believe, the original box for my 64. my car only has 91000 miles on it. (I got it from the original owner and have all of the paperwork for it.) I don't want to tear it up by driving it without servicing it in case it is low on lube (and the lube is probably ancient & needs to be changed anyway), so I plan to pick up a rebuildable box, have at it, and swap it out for my original steering box while I see what the original box needs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EVfun
Samba Member


Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 4097
Location: Seattle
EVfun is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

kwalker wrote:
My present box is, I believe, the original box for my 64. my car only has 91000 miles on it. (I got it from the original owner and have all of the paperwork for it.) I don't want to tear it up by driving it without servicing it in case it is low on lube (and the lube is probably ancient & needs to be changed anyway), so I plan to pick up a rebuildable box, have at it, and swap it out for my original steering box while I see what the original box needs.

It's barely broken in! Smile My suggestion would be to check the oil level, top up as needed, and clean up the area so you can spot any new leak. Next, drive it a few thousand miles and look for leaks. You will know a lot more about its condition.

When you can it wouldn't hurt to pull the box, pull the top, then turn it over and drain it. Clean out the inside, reinstall the cover and fill with oil again. It's low mile original -- I'd keep it full of oil and not start putting in new parts unless needed. Not much matches the quality of the parts VW approved for their assembly line.

Oh, and on any old low mile car check and keep checking the brakes. Unlike grease, brake fluid finds moisture and causes rust. Plus, most any brake problem on pre- 67 cars mean no brakes!
_________________
Wildthings wrote:
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
60DoubleTurd
Type 3 Contributor


Joined: May 24, 2003
Posts: 1918
Location: Ca
60DoubleTurd is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:54 am    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

Moving this to the top. I am in need of a rebuilt factory box. I don't have the time to rebuild it myself. Is there someone that you guys recommend? Like "the steering box guy"?
_________________
Frank
-------------------------------------
66 L87 Variant Pigalle

SBS #17
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
djway3474
Samba Member


Joined: August 19, 2011
Posts: 2495
Location: The Real NDK So Cal
djway3474 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:00 am    Post subject: Re: Steering Boxes: VW vs. TRW; VW Teardown & Rebuild Reply with quote

Has anyone checked out the Empi steering box. Every picture I see it has a TRW on it.
Question Question Question
Here is a link to an Amazon listing but I have seen this other places.
https://www.amazon.com/EMPI-98-4156-B-STEERING-62-...4356K38NP2
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Type 3 All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 20, 21, 22
Jump to:
Page 22 of 22

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB