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Did i f up my generator ?
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hobbybob517
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:21 pm    Post subject: Did i f up my generator ? Reply with quote

Hi guys need a little advise here,

Have à charging issue, so i checked voltage on the generator,
Measured 0.7 volts jumped df to ground and had voltmeter on D+ and ground.

Revved engine up to about 3000 rpm.

So here's the thing, i tried to polarize my gen, i might have done it wrong
I connected à battery plus to D+ and the neg to Df the generator spun ok
I just spun iT for 3 seconds now my generator meassures 1.2volts at 3000 rpm.
Soooo.......what's up?
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THE BUILD http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php
SBD wrote:

3 million rpm? Well there's your problem! No wonder it blew up!
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VW_Buggsy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: Did i f up my generator ? Reply with quote

http://www.vw-resource.com/generator.html

Sounds like you did the test properly and the polarization properly. The polarization thing is just to set up an initial current flow as I understand it and as long as you're getting any positive voltage you shouldn't need to do it again (I believe).

Did you check the brushes on the generator? That's the little black blocks you can see inside a metal sleeve through those windows on the generator that rest on the armature. They do wear out and sometimes the little springs that hold them to the armature weaken or break. They need enough meat on them to stick out up past that sleeve and the springs that hold them in need to be pushing them onto that armature well.

While doing your voltage test you can try to squeeze the brushes more tightly onto the armature and see if the voltage increases... of course you could rip a finger off trying to do this too so it's at your own risk.

If it's not that, you're beyond my skill level. Good luck!
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hobbybob517
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: Did i f up my generator ? Reply with quote

Thanx for the reply ,
I did check my brushes and they are fine.
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SBD wrote:

3 million rpm? Well there's your problem! No wonder it blew up!
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hobbybob517
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: Did i f up my generator ? Reply with quote

Is there anything else i can check/test?
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SBD wrote:

3 million rpm? Well there's your problem! No wonder it blew up!
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VW_Buggsy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Did i f up my generator ? Reply with quote

Well, from that tech article:

"If you don't get the high voltage (up to 35 volts for the 12-volt generator or 20 volts for the 6-volt generator), the generator is probably faulty."

So, it sounds like it's probably faulty. Stuff breaks, 'specially really old stuff.

Maybe a wiser head than mine can help bring it back from the dead.

If the armature where the brushes contact are dirty that can cause problems. You can take some sandpaper/emery paper and rotate the generator by hand while pressing the sandpaper on it to clean up the contact face and sometimes that helps.

I haven't had too many issues with generators and when I have I've just swapped them out (I have a bunch I've acquired from people swapping to alternators).

Good luck with it.
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hobbybob517
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Did i f up my generator ? Reply with quote

Yeah i guess it's broken
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3 million rpm? Well there's your problem! No wonder it blew up!
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runamoc Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: Did i f up my generator ? Reply with quote

Quote:
jumped df to ground


DF is the field windings connection. The VR 'sends' a variable voltage to the field windings. This voltage generates a variable magnet field. This magnet field induces voltage into the spinning rotor's windings. This generated voltage in the rotor 'comes' out, thru the brushes, as D+.

Summed up, by grounding DF, the generator got nothing in, so there was nothing out.
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VW_Buggsy
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: Did i f up my generator ? Reply with quote

I've always put DF to ground to do this and that is what is described in the tech article I linked to above in both the voltage test and polarization procedure:

For voltage test:
Quote:
Use a jumper lead to connect DF to the generator frame (grounding the DF connection).


For polarization:
Quote:
To polarise the generator, remove the fan belt, jumper wire from DF to the generator case (grounding the DF terminal). Now connect a wire from the + terminal on the battery to D+ on the generator. The generator should now start to spin. A few seconds is enough for this test.


When polarizing a generator you aren't trying to get a current OUT of it, you're trying to induce a magnetic field so it can produce current when it spins and that is different than what it would do in normal operation.

I don't think he messed up the polarization process I've done it like that before and it works fine for me, and that's what's described in the manuals and tech posts I've read.

So, if NOT that what does one do to the DF terminal during a test for voltage to confirm if the genny is working? Leave it hooked to the regulator feed or jump it to 12V to give it a field?
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hobbybob517
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: Did i f up my generator ? Reply with quote

runamoc wrote:
Quote:
jumped df to ground


DF is the field windings connection. The VR 'sends' a variable voltage to the field windings. This voltage generates a variable magnet field. This magnet field induces voltage into the spinning rotor's windings. This generated voltage in the rotor 'comes' out, thru the brushes, as D+.

Summed up, by grounding DF, the generator got nothing in, so there was nothing out.
so where should i meassure the voltage ? Do i leave the df attached?
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SBD wrote:

3 million rpm? Well there's your problem! No wonder it blew up!
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Luft kühl
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: Did i f up my generator ? Reply with quote

http://www.speedyjim.net/htm/gen.htm
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hobbybob517
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: Did i f up my generator ? Reply with quote

Yup, that's what i did. Guess its broken.
I can get it rebuilt localy , i'll drop it off next week

Thanx guys
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THE BUILD http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php
SBD wrote:

3 million rpm? Well there's your problem! No wonder it blew up!
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hobbybob517
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:49 am    Post subject: Re: Did i f up my generator ? Reply with quote

I got my new generator installed today, and it works!

Thanx again for the help.
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3 million rpm? Well there's your problem! No wonder it blew up!
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