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1970fun Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2008 Posts: 209 Location: Holland
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Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:24 am Post subject: Re: Overlanding a VW Bus Around The World?! |
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Why not use i simpel copper pipe that you bend 2 or 3 times and mount it on the rack of a 2 burner Coleman dual fuel stove, a separate water container with a 12 volts pump a few meters of gardenhose and a shower head et voila!
To hot to cold just crank up or lower the flames on the Coleman, 1 fuel system for all over the world for cooking and a hot shower |
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williamM Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008 Posts: 4333 Location: southwest Arizona
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Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:15 am Post subject: Re: Overlanding a VW Bus Around The World?! |
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Boy can this get complicated quickly- One water storage- capable of hot water storage "OK Leah - it's hot water day"-- on that day all your storage water would be heated and insulated- you would use your 5 gallon potable water- if you needed cold water.- I would also go with the solar shower tube as the sole water storage.
To heat it- a dedicated exhaust tap would re-direct hot gases thru -either an external cooper pipe wrap and insulated - or an internal loop and exhausted out the side of the tank.
Thinking the weakest link would be the exhaust tap and valve- wouldn't need to cut any holes as it would feed thru the air intake.
a simple water cooled engine style temp gauge could be mounted anywhere
Just a thought-
any word on Boomerang?. _________________ some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
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OrangeZA Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2016 Posts: 110 Location: Scottish Highlands
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Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Overlanding a VW Bus Around The World?! |
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Hey Ben,
I agree with William. Have you heard of Arthur Barraclough’s Type 2? He traveled to 57 different countries with his Kombi, covering 250,000 miles. He bought it brand new in 1970 and modified it extensively over the next 25 years, adding a factory high-top, 2 litre engine and a hot water system. There’s not much about his travels online, but he featured in some VW and Camper magazines in the UK during the ‘90s.
Nigel Skeet wrote about him here: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=196043
Arthur Barraclough wrote: |
I have put disc brakes on the front, put on a high roof, fit a free hot water system, no pumps, gravity fed. I ran a stainless steel tube right through the silencer (Nigel's note: engine exhaust-system muffler), so as soon as I start up, as the water gets hot, it starts circulating. In about half hour, I have 3˝gallons of hot water. If I don't switch it off, it heats the water in the header tank and gives another 7 gallons. |
“Boomerang”? |
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Manfred58sc Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2009 Posts: 3382
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Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Overlanding a VW Bus Around The World?! |
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After living and travelling out of my 69 for many years and hundreds of thousands of miles I came to a number of conclusions:
1- clutter is a buzzkill. Minimal clothing ( no seasonal gear, if not in use it goes, if you need it buy it )
2- Weight kills engines ( very light everything and no riders )
3- Keep all water and cooking outside the Bus ( no mess,no rodents ). Easy up for shade and portable propane set up for hot water, cooking, filling a solar shower bag ). I did keep my adventure wagon stove for heating hot water to make tea ( I'm not a Barbarian!) and the ice box ( block ice ) .
4- Go north and high up in summer, south and low in winter
I stayed clean, comfortable and had great times.
Simple is good
It will be interesting to see how you like going through hard core countries like Iran and Afghanistan.Western women generally don't like the experience.... _________________ Fat chick owner/operator |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6980 Location: Durango, CO
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22639 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: Overlanding a VW Bus Around The World?! |
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Stay out of those aforementioned countries. They will chew you up,and spit you out like floss. I’ve been in both. _________________ .ssS! |
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HastaAlaska Samba Member
Joined: November 22, 2012 Posts: 1420 Location: Off Grid
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Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Overlanding a VW Bus Around The World?! |
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OrangeZA wrote: |
[quote="Arthur Barraclough"...fit a free hot water system, no pumps, gravity fed. I ran a stainless steel tube right through the silencer (Nigel's note: engine exhaust-system muffler), so as soon as I start up, as the water gets hot, it starts circulating. In about half hour, I have 3˝gallons of hot water. If I don't switch it off, it heats the water in the header tank and gives another 7 gallons. |
[/quote]
OK, would love to hear your thoughts on how this might have worked exactly - if I could replicate it, this would be an ideal system. Do you think I could run a stainless steel tube through the muffler and connect it directly to the roadshower tube on the roof rack? Would it need to be a loop to allow flow in a circuit or could it just be a single pipe down/up to the main 5 gallon chamber on the roof?
Can anyone think of any negative implications of this system?
richparker wrote: |
I’m with Manfred, K.I.S.S |
it's already a very complicated trip, I'll do my best to keep it as simple as possible. Some of you guys wont like the direction I'm headed with the build, but it should be interesting to you at least and I plan to share it all in as much detail as I can
Abscate wrote: |
Stay out of those aforementioned countries. They will chew you up,and spit you out like floss. I’ve been in both. |
Route planning is extremely difficult. A number of countries have closed their borders to foreign vehicles recently and it's a shifting landscape. We're trying to plan ahead as much as possible, but its pretty challenging. Thailand threw a spanner in the works by forcing you to have a guide to enter the country. Going to get expensive fast. Pan-Am was so easy in comparison.
My bus got redirected, so didn't land on schedule in the UK. Build delayed a further 2 weeks. _________________ Around The World in a VW - Follow the Docuseries
2011 - PRESENT
Hasta Alaska Series - https://kombilife.com/hasta-alaska/
World Overland Series - https://kombilife.com/world-overland-travel-series/
Latest Adventures - https://www.youtube.com/@kombilife |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5688 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: Overlanding a VW Bus Around The World?! |
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Hmm, sounds like the exhaust thing could/would work like a thermal siphon.
You'd have your hot water heater loop (through the muffler) pull from and empty into the same container, with both ends under water.
As the water heats in the muffler, it will boil and push out of one end of the pipe. And as it does that, it will suck more water into the loop! And will continue to keep recirculating.
I've done it with copper pipe in a camp fire, but I suppose the heat from a muffler would do the same thing. _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7623
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Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: Overlanding a VW Bus Around The World?! |
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vwwestyman wrote: |
Hmm, sounds like the exhaust thing could/would work like a thermal siphon.
You'd have your hot water heater loop (through the muffler) pull from and empty into the same container, with both ends under water.
As the water heats in the muffler, it will boil and push out of one end of the pipe. And as it does that, it will suck more water into the loop! And will continue to keep recirculating.
I've done it with copper pipe in a camp fire, but I suppose the heat from a muffler would do the same thing. |
Yes Dave but you were probably making hooch. When did daily showers become important to Europeans? Just F’ing with you Ben. _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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HastaAlaska Samba Member
Joined: November 22, 2012 Posts: 1420 Location: Off Grid
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:27 am Post subject: Re: Overlanding a VW Bus Around The World?! |
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vwwestyman wrote: |
Hmm, sounds like the exhaust thing could/would work like a thermal siphon. |
Thanks for that. Just looked it up:
From WikiPedia: A good thermosiphon has very little hydraulic resistance so that liquid can flow easily under the relatively low pressure produced by natural convection....Also, thermosiphons can fail because of a bubble in the loop, and require a circulating loop of pipes.
So it definitely needs an in and out to make a loop. I'm guessing it wont have the power to flow up 7ft of pipe to the road shower? what do you think
My friends Tim and Liz who did that excellent conversion of their $6000 Syncro have a similar system but use a heat exchanger as the heat source and they have a pump in the system. I've just sent them a message to see if it gets hot without the pump.
You can see their shower in this video:
Link
_________________ Around The World in a VW - Follow the Docuseries
2011 - PRESENT
Hasta Alaska Series - https://kombilife.com/hasta-alaska/
World Overland Series - https://kombilife.com/world-overland-travel-series/
Latest Adventures - https://www.youtube.com/@kombilife |
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Spike0180 Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015 Posts: 2269 Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:13 am Post subject: Re: Overlanding a VW Bus Around The World?! |
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Yes, the convection will get your hot water to the top of a 7ft shower. Radiator heat in old houses go up 3 floors without an issue. You just have to build up enough hot water, which may surprise you how little that is. _________________ Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12846 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:16 am Post subject: Re: Overlanding a VW Bus Around The World?! |
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Spike0180 wrote: |
Yes, the convection will get your hot water to the top of a 7ft shower. Radiator heat in old houses go up 3 floors without an issue. You just have to build up enough hot water, which may surprise you how little that is. |
FWIW, there are still “steam plants” that power lots of HVAC systems in older large cities.
https://untappedcities.com/2013/09/17/cities-101-how-does-the-steam-system-work-in-nyc/ _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Spike0180 Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015 Posts: 2269 Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Overlanding a VW Bus Around The World?! |
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Physics is great, isn't it!?
My heating in my house is an old steam heat system that was converted to hot water. Works great! _________________ Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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williamM Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008 Posts: 4333 Location: southwest Arizona
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Overlanding a VW Bus Around The World?! |
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I see that the "wrap round the muffler" system plus the shower for storage would let you use a bunch of common plumbing for valves and fittings - rather that trying to find a bullet proof exhaust gas shut off and piping-
Think we have a winner- _________________ some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
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HastaAlaska Samba Member
Joined: November 22, 2012 Posts: 1420 Location: Off Grid
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Overlanding a VW Bus Around The World?! |
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Great to know it will make the 7ft, I was concerned about that.
A little concerned that it would end up boiling off all our water too. Exhausts get hot hot. Perhaps a auto-shut-off mixer valve of some description inline would prevent that problem. Wish there more info for a tried and tested system.
williamM wrote: |
I see that the "wrap round the muffler" system plus the shower for storage would let you use a bunch of common plumbing for valves and fittings - rather that trying to find a bullet proof exhaust gas shut off and piping- |
I don't know, the above-mentioned couple in the video first tried the wrap around system without much luck so they scrapped it. From what I've read there isn't enough contact surface with the copper pipe. Maybe they needed a tighter wrap. _________________ Around The World in a VW - Follow the Docuseries
2011 - PRESENT
Hasta Alaska Series - https://kombilife.com/hasta-alaska/
World Overland Series - https://kombilife.com/world-overland-travel-series/
Latest Adventures - https://www.youtube.com/@kombilife |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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williamM Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008 Posts: 4333 Location: southwest Arizona
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Overlanding a VW Bus Around The World?! |
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You might be able to get a tank (small one- ah la heat exchanger) welded round an exhaust pipe- with fittings at both ends. Then a simple brass shut off valve coming out of the wall- to control when and if you needed hot water that day.
All of it (except the return line) wrapped in an insulation.
The day you wanted hot water - you turn on the valve and drive. Might be nice to have a pop off valve up high- should you encounter expansion.
When the valve was shut- no heat would get to the storage.
Again the water cooled heat gauge would keep you informed of the temp in the solar shower, or what ever storage you finish with.
Think your getting closer to what will be the simplistic system -- would shoot for the fewest moving parts. _________________ some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5688 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Overlanding a VW Bus Around The World?! |
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Hmm, thinking about this more--How often are you going to plan to shower? Seems like you'd also need to time them a little bit to coincide with when you shut down the motor. If you're stopped somewhere for a few days for whatever reason, are you going to just idle the motor long enough to produce hot water? What if the reason you're sitting is because the motor isn't running?
I think maybe this really is a KISS thing-Keep It Simple, Stupid. So maybe one of the many little propane-fired heaters would be a good idea.
Or (maybe it was discussed earlier in the thread, I don't remember) a gas-fired water heater could be installed. Look at Espar Hydronic heaters. They are intended to warm motors but I can't think of any reason one couldn't be plumbed for heating shower water instead.
Or just grab some copper pipe, heater hose, a jug, and build your own thermo-syphon heater.
vwwestyman wrote: |
I had seen that the shower houses were shut down at Ledges as of a couple weeks ago, so I made my own water heater before leaving.
It works by a thermo siphon being created. Water boils in the coils (ideally placed in a camp fire, the pics are from testing the concept) and is pushed out one pipe, and then cool water is sucked into the other pipe to replace it, and the cycle is repeated. On that test run, I eventually got the water to 150 degrees! (Before one pipe fell out when I went in the house, and siphoned a bunch of water out of the tank.)
So you build your fire, suck water through the pipes, and put the coils in to the camp fire. A little while later, you've got nice warm water for a shower!
I ended up replacing that shower head pictured (as a show of the concept) with a kitchen sink sprayer. That worked much better in terms of better water pressure, as well as having an easy on/off method to prevent wasting water. I had to cut the end of the hose off and warm it to get it to fit over the outlet on the water tank.
For real-life showering, I just placed the warm water container on the roof rack of the Bus and showered off with no problems at all.
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_________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6980 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: Overlanding a VW Bus Around The World?! |
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^Thats sweet Dave! I do agree that a black “shower bag” mounted on the roof. Or a big 8” black PVC with mounted to the roof, or in this case off the drivers side would be more KISS. On the downside those systems don’t work when it’s cold out. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build |
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OrangeZA Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2016 Posts: 110 Location: Scottish Highlands
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: Overlanding a VW Bus Around The World?! |
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vwwestyman wrote: |
Or (maybe it was discussed earlier in the thread, I don't remember) a gas-fired water heater could be installed. Look at Espar Hydronic heaters. They are intended to warm motors but I can't think of any reason one couldn't be plumbed for heating shower water instead. |
Tigerexped in Wolfsburg, Germany provide a kit that uses an air heater instead. https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_...6t0DVkqbOg
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