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bikesndbugs
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2015
Posts: 218
Location: san diego
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 Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:27 am Post subject: Re: My 4 Seater Buggy Project |
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your adjusters look to be turned up alt if they were turned down some it would probobly soften it up as then the trailing arm is moving up more rather than back.
Just a thought i may be wrong |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:40 am Post subject: Re: My 4 Seater Buggy Project |
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yeah, I've got them backed off as far as they can go. I can't imagine driving them further up, the arms would be vertical! I hope to not have to cut and turn the beam down, but I may end up doing that too. I've got 18" of clearance, that's plenty for anything around here. At full stuff, I'll be about where it used to ride.
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4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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cbeck
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2014
Posts: 2495
Location: high ridge, mo
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: My 4 Seater Buggy Project |
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| You got front brakes yet? That is when I see my front compress maybe a couple inches. Did you have the rear bars out? Measure them? Still need to come apart? Maybe po upgraded bars? My 22mm is way too soft. |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 2:54 am Post subject: Re: My 4 Seater Buggy Project |
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| cbeck wrote: |
| You got front brakes yet? That is when I see my front compress maybe a couple inches. Did you have the rear bars out? Measure them? Still need to come apart? Maybe po upgraded bars? My 22mm is way too soft. |
I don't have front brakes together, still need backing plates and all the hardware. So for now, the drums are being used as hubs only. I'll be working on that after the trip to the dunes next week. I hope to see the suspension working through the whoops too. Maybe a stock set of springs in the lower beam tube will help too.
I had the rear bars out and they seemed like they were the same diameter as yours... just short. I wonder if being short they give up less spring on the rotation? The rear doesn't come anywhere close to bottoming out and it rides smooth, so I feel like focusing on the front is still my main concern.
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4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 10:25 am Post subject: Re: Non-Adjustable aluminum front beam... |
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| pullstart wrote: |
| I also did some measuring last night, the front beam is 9" off the ground and the rear frame where it mounts to the torsion tube is 13". That's a good reference I suppose. |
So measuring where it stands currently, I'm at 16" clearance front and rear, bottom of the beam and the bottom of the rear frame where it mounts to the torsion tube. I put the 24" limit straps on the front and drove around the block... to my surprise the front end stayed down a bit with that extra help to keep the arms closer to level.
The ride is super harsh compared to the non-adjustable aluminum beam and stock leaves, the front end feels like it jumps off the ground when I hit a bump, instead of soaking it up.
So now, what to do? I think I might try to cut and turn down the lower tube to let those HD springs work, but with the arms as levers toward the ground instead of jack stands. The adjustment allows the grub screws to a near vertical position as it is now, I'll never in a million years lift it that high.
Opinions?
also mounted the rear limit straps inboard of the frame up top.
_________________
4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: My 4 Seater Buggy Project |
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I'm past the point of no return... I lowered it with a cut and turn on the bottom and will try that with the HD springs. At it's highest adjustment now, I'll achieve the same ride height I had, which the tie rods droop into the frame rails anyhow. It was about 3/4".
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4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 4:43 am Post subject: Re: My 4 Seater Buggy Project |
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This may not be the proper fix, but I don't see any safety issues here. I consider this my progressive spring rate. The lower HD springs are almost at zero rate at ride height (now 14.5" off the ground) and the upper factory springs are under compression. With some adjustment available, I hope to achieve some decent ride feel and good handling at the same time.
Which leads me to my next question... any idea what size the adjustment screws are? Seems the grub screws are too large. I might head to the hardware store and test some bolts out in the parking lot. It's nice to have a local store that lets me do that.
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4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: My 4 Seater Buggy Project |
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What size screws are actually in there depends on who made the adjusters. The inventors of those adjusters, Sway-A-Way uses 1/2-20 screws. Conical point for grub screws and domed point for adjuster screws.
Although a few years ago I had trouble with getting 12mm coarse thread screws from one of their dealers. So I contacted the owner of SAW and got that fixed.
Fine thread screws have a thicker minimum cross section than coarse thread. And 1/2" is larger than 12mm.
Those look like 1/2".
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 11:31 am Post subject: Re: My 4 Seater Buggy Project |
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Well the time has nearly come, I'll be heading to the dunes tomorrow for a shakedown run. I plan on stopping by Appletree on my way in the morning and picking up a pair of stock leaf spring packs and cutting them down for the lower beam... maybe even in the parking lot before we hit the sand. I'll see how my kids feel about sitting in the truck for an hour while I do the work, but I have a feeling it'll be well worth it for them! Front tires are in the shop being balanced as we speak and other than loading up gear and tools, I'm ready to head north. My exchange student has a go-pro, so hopefully we get some decent footage of the ride.
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4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:30 am Post subject: Re: My 4 Seater Buggy Project |
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Well, the buggy survived! On the way up to the dunes, I stopped by Appletree and picked up two stock leaf packs, then used my chop saw to cut them down for use with the wide beam (2 packs cut = 1 beam tube of spring). In the dune parking lot, I swapped the HD springs out for the stockers, so now I'm running all stock spring. I ended up running the adjusters up further than I expected to, but it worked out well. We ran the car HARD. Third gear through the woops, jumping, etc. The front end worked great! The Fox Shocks dampened well and I don't think I ever used the limit straps, but they're there to keep from bottoming the tie rods into the frame so I'll keep them.
I put zip ties on the front shock shafts to see if I was bottoming out on the bumps. I guess I'm using the shocks...
I need rear bump stops and some clearance work. And better shocks. And I might as well say I wish I had coilovers instead of torsions. But this is way better than the suspension that I bought the buggy with. Now I am excited for that extra 100 hp from the Subaru engine!
I didn't get as much footage as I thought, we didn't bring the go-pro so we got some phone camera footage I'll try to get posted soon. We were in the dunes Thursday, Manistee National Forest on Friday, and after about a 4 hour recovery (9 Mile Bridge Road doesn't go through between Bosschem Rd and Udell Hills Road like the DNR trail maps show) we ended the day. But the trail system is well marked with trail numbers and we had a blast, running the trails, jumping some berms, and at last sinking in the swamp. I'm glad I haven't cut down my ratchet straps for trailering, all doubled up they extracted me from the swamp and I was able to get home. Mom did have to come find us to bring the straps... I need a winch. And rear shocks. And Subaru power. And better seats. And that time and money thing!
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4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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heywebonya
Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2010
Posts: 823
Location: Portage, MI
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:19 am Post subject: Re: My 4 Seater Buggy Project |
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Talking about how rough the front is riding, what is your tire pressure? I just put new tires on my buggy and the ride was super hard until I realized my front end only weighs ~ 200 lbs. I am lowering the pressure to ~ 12 psi.
Great buggy tales.
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If I knew what I was doing; I wouldn't be building a buggy! |
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cbeck
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2014
Posts: 2495
Location: high ridge, mo
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:23 am Post subject: Re: My 4 Seater Buggy Project |
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| If I just had enough truck to pull my camper and my buggy at the same time.... |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:09 am Post subject: Re: My 4 Seater Buggy Project |
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| heywebonya wrote: |
Talking about how rough the front is riding, what is your tire pressure? I just put new tires on my buggy and the ride was super hard until I realized my front end only weighs ~ 200 lbs. I am lowering the pressure to ~ 12 psi.
Great buggy tales. |
Great point, they're probably about 25-30... I didn't even check but they're as hard as my motorcycle's tires!
_________________
4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:09 am Post subject: Re: My 4 Seater Buggy Project |
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| cbeck wrote: |
| If I just had enough truck to pull my camper and my buggy at the same time.... |
shoulda camped in the buggy. That was simple.
_________________
4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:45 am Post subject: Re: My 4 Seater Buggy Project |
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I found some stock backing plates complete that should fit my spindles and drums. I've got a m/c for 4 wheel brakes so I'll have to get that all fixed up when the backing plates get here.
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4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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YDBD
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2017
Posts: 890
Location: Bavaria, Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: My 4 Seater Buggy Project |
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You might want to put a set of spring plate retainers on your rear suspension if you're jumping. My '64 baja had them on and keeps the spring plate from popping over the stops and getting jammed up there. The were just 1/8" steel bolted to the shock tower above and below the spring plate. Wish I had a pic...
_________________
'56 pan Dune Buggy since '69
don't live in the past...but when I did:
'67 bug
'64 baja
'60 dune buggy
'73 Personenkraftwagen Type 182 "Thing" |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:54 am Post subject: Re: My 4 Seater Buggy Project |
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| YDBD wrote: |
| You might want to put a set of spring plate retainers on your rear suspension if you're jumping. My '64 baja had them on and keeps the spring plate from popping over the stops and getting jammed up there. The were just 1/8" steel bolted to the shock tower above and below the spring plate. Wish I had a pic... |
Off Topic YDBD, My family will be visiting our oldest (originally exchange student) daughter in Duisburg at the end of this month / early July. Last year we visited the Zugspitze, Neuschwanstein, Munich, etc. Beautiful country you live in!
Now back to topic...
I think I understand what you're saying, but I've pretty much trimmed the shock tower off along with most of the factory stops. I have limit straps to keep the spring plates from hitting the torsion tube on down travel and once I clearance more and build upper bump stops I think I'll be alright. I just never planned on bottoming out like I did.
***disclaimer*** Probably if I would have followed cbeck's question/warning about running the stock spring, I wouldn't be in this boat 
_________________
4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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YDBD
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2017
Posts: 890
Location: Bavaria, Germany
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:14 am Post subject: Re: My 4 Seater Buggy Project |
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Yes loving Germany, almost two years here now....bummer, I'll be all over the USA this summer... we could have had a bier...
Bottom out so bad one time broke the nose cone off the transaxle....but the spring plates stayed on!
_________________
'56 pan Dune Buggy since '69
don't live in the past...but when I did:
'67 bug
'64 baja
'60 dune buggy
'73 Personenkraftwagen Type 182 "Thing" |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: My 4 Seater Buggy Project |
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I had a minor setback today, hit a water hole that the DNR had marked as "trail closed" and it was much deeper than I thought. The crank case topped off with water and we had to tow it back home (had it running but chose not to wash anything out worse than it already was). I'll have to get a couple gallons of kerosene or diesel and try to wash it all out before the moisture wreaks havoc.
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4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:22 am Post subject: Re: My 4 Seater Buggy Project |
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Well in the last week, I've flushed the engine a few times with diesel fuel... I filled it up, then cranked it over for a bit without the plugs in and the coil disconnected, then drained and repeated. Friday I was able to fill'er up with oil and take it down the road. I can't say for sure if power is at a loss, but it's running. We'll be moving to the new house middle of next month and I'll start pulling the Subaru engine and harness soon thereafter. But until then, I should still be able to hit the trails once in a while.
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4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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