021 905 205P distributor refresh (pics)

[mcdonaldneal]

There are a couple of threads (at least!) detailing the procedure for a bus distributor refresh/rebuild suitable for an amateur.
This one is particularly good:
Refreshing a DVDA or SVDA distributor - my photographic tale
This was helpful to me, but there were a few differences between the distributors so I thought I would detail the strip down of my 021-905-205P, which is in our 1978 2 litre Kombi, and is a common late bus distributor.
I will say two things; this is the fourth one I have stripped down this week (don't ask!) but I am a mechanical amateur, so this is doable by anyone. Edit: whether the rebuilt distributor will have all the advance curves in spec is debatable. Secondly, I am on holiday so I don't have the means (yet!) to punch out the pin at the bottom that holds the shaft in place, so the later stages and fibre washer replacement will have to come later!
You will likely need the fibre washers though, so get some from a core or find a source before you start!...
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1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper

Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery!

[mcdonaldneal]

First step was to strip off the easily removable parts; ignition contact points, condenser, clips that hold the cap on and the plastic or metal 'window' that is level with the centrifugal weights low down in the bowl of the distributor.
Also remove the vacuum can screws and release the arm. Test the can holds suction for 20sec or so with your tongue.
That leaves you with this:

Remove the two screws that hold the points plate. It won't lift out at this point because of pressed tabs in the body of the distributor. The lower plate needs to rotate clockwise about 1/2"
If the distributor is full of crap (likely!) you can knock it around with a punch through the vacuum arm hole (pictured). Then the points plate can be gently levered up:

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1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper

Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery!

[Glenn]

[mcdonaldneal]

The points plates then pretty much falls out.
The two halves are held together by a spring clip that holds a ball bearing.

I've got a limited range of tools and cleaning products with me, so everything gets a preliminary clean with solvent, disposable detergent wipes and maybe a squirt of Gibbs protectant. I would prefer Gibbs and wire wool, then IPA, then Bosch distributor grease. Oil is recommended for the shaft and the fibre washers when you get to that stage.
The spring clip levers off, don't lose the ball! Push the plates apart but beware that the braided electrical strap should not separate! Clean up as you will, and put back together for now. The ball and clip are easier to replace upside-down!

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1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper

Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery!

[Glenn]

[mcdonaldneal]

Then take a look inside the body of the distributor. In fact, take a photo, 'cause you'll want to see how the weights and springs go back together when the time comes! In fact, take two...

The weights are held in place by a circlip/e clip, and rest on little nylon washers. You could lever them up once the clip is off through the hole in the side of the body, but...

The springs stop the weights lifting off, and...
The springs are retained by a dastardly, fragile NLA plastic 'wing nut' arrangement at the outer ends. It is very fiddly, but you have to get at least one end of each spring free before you can take off the weights. Don't break these plastic clips! They do rotate on their shaft though, if that helps you. You can see one through the hole in the last pic...

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1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper

Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery!

[Glenn]

You need to remove the pin on the drive and remove the internals before taking them apart. Be careful not to break any of the plastic pieces since they are NLA.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

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[mcdonaldneal]

Bedtime!
More in the morning!
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1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper

Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery!

[SGKent]

Were it me I would stop right now. The odds of getting both the springs off the plastic retainers is about a 1 in 10 chance. Making matters worse, the bearings are probably well oiled and broken in. When you clean it if you don't get the lubrication just right it will seize followed by I imagine a brass gear failure - followed by...

Usually it takes me three or four cores to get two good plastic retainers.

If you go for it, make sure that the springs stay with the same weights. Don't swap them.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[tasb]

There are so many more pitfalls to these later distributors compared to the 1971 and earlier distributors. One factor that the OP hasn't gotten to yet is the vacuum canisters. I'm finding some that are holding vacuum but once installed are not strong enough anymore to overcome the spring inside the canister. The result is a points plate that does not advance. I had 12x 113 905 205 AN cores and could only get three good distributors out of the lot. I'm currently working on a group of 113 905 205 AJ's. The story is the same. And folks wonder why I am only willing to pay $5 for a core DVDA distributor.
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Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

[mcdonaldneal]

I really appreciate the comments here.
I know Glenn, tasb and SGKent are hugely experienced, and the thread will be much more useful to anyone contemplating this if they can go in with their eyes open and with a good idea of the potential problems. Please keep commenting!
I'm really just experimenting here. If I can get one good spare distributor out of this, I'll be happy. I've got four cores, one doesn't even have a vacuum can and I can take all the time I need to break them down (or break them!)
I live in Scotland, and in the last ten years or so I haven't been to more than one or two decent 'swap meets'. Parts are hard to come by, and I see the supplies drying up. Picking up a bargain on EBay has obvious problems!
I figure that a cleaned, lubricated, shimmed unit, with a working vacuum can has to be better than a generic replacement, and even the ones in the Ghia and the Kombi are worn (but 'working well'!)

My response to the comments so far:
Glenn, great news about the washers, I'll get back to you. None of the points plates responded to gentle leverage, but with penetrating oil around the edge and rotating them they all came pretty easily, and these cores are pretty filthy!
I see it would be better to remove the shaft first, but I'm waiting for a neighbour with a vice and hammer to get back from Turkey, so I'm doing what I can in the meantime. Ideally, shaft first!
SGKent, I've been very careful with the plastic retainers. 5/8 of the spring loops have come off, and none have broken the plastic, and I have left the rest in place until the shaft comes out (and might even leave them then, if they don't come easily!) I just made sure one end of each spring came off, so the weights would come out.
The weights are visually similar, and all eight I have are stamped with the same reference number '3'. I've kept each pair with the relevant unit, and hopefully I won't regret not identifying which was which in the pair, but I suppose it's 50:50 chance of getting it right anyway!
I have Bosch distributor grease, and engine oil for reassembly. Tips on where and how much lubricant would be appreciated...
Tasb, thanks, it's depressing the vacuum cans have such a low success rate. I guess all I can do is cross my fingers. I have three single vacuum cans, and they all hold vacuum, but I appreciate that might not be enough.

Sorry for the long post! It's just morning on the Adriatic Coast, so I had missed the replies
The 'bad' news is that I had already worked further on the distributor, just didn't have time to post last night, so I'll post up the rest of the pictures soon!
Thanks again!
_________________
1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper

Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery!

[mcdonaldneal]

So, to proceed, I released at least one end of each weight's spring, and if I was in any doubt, left the outer end attached so as not to risk the plastic 'butterfly'. The weights lift out and there is a nylon type washer underneath, on the post. It may be that the weights are 'sided', so that they have to go back on their same post, but I made an executive decision (after I had dumped them in the solvent!) that they were both visually the same, and have the same serial number '3' stamped on them, so I didn't mark which was which. Also, they have a small plastic 'rider' that lubricates their movement, which probably shouldn't go into strong solvent. These are easily pushed out. I also quickly wiped clean the inside of the bowl, but all of these steps would be easier with the shaft removed, I'm just impatient!

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1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper

Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery!

[mcdonaldneal]

To remove the shaft it's pretty obvious. The pin is covered (?held) by a wire coil spring. The spring eases off and with a combination of punch, hammer, vice or press it apparently knocks out fairly easily. I haven't got there yet.

What I could tackle was removing the upper shaft. This is held in place by a dastardly 7/8 circlip, in the most inaccessible location imaginable, under the felt wick . I really struggled with this, for many hours, and eventually fished it out with a dental pick fashioned into a tiny hook. In one of my cores, the wick has disintegrated and become enmeshed with the clip, and many hours of 'fishing' haven't got all of the wick, or the clip out. It's a bastard.
Pics show the circlip in position, and slightly dislodged on the way to coming out...

Once the clip is out, there is a metal washer underneath it. Then the upper shaft lifts out. Edit: there is also a metal shim/washer under the shaft.
In your excitement, make a note of which way around it is, as it can go back 180deg out of phase. Guess who didn't make a note?
However, with three other cores, I established that if you look from the side, and have the small half of the drive dog to the left, the rotor arm notch right at the top faces the rear front of the distributor, away toward you. Now we know!
The top half of the shaft I've only wiped clean. Suggestions from other threads are to clean the polished part that the points cam rides on with 2000 grit and oil. I'll get there eventually, but that's as far as I've got for now!

added 10/17/16
Drive dog off-center to left = Small segment on left

Tcash
_________________
1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper

Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery!

[Glenn]

[hazetguy]

Yes, removing the internals first makes getting that circlip off so much easier.
I use a drift on the part of the shaft that is sticking up above the clip, hold the upper part by the lobe section, then one tap with a hammer pops the lower section out of the clip. Easy, fast, no problem.
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[SGKent]

some have a felt like pad that wraps around the lower inside of the body. That holds grease and oil. If you solvent tank one of those you'll never get the correct lubrication again. You won't know until you get the main shaft out. I lay a flat mill file on the part of the shaft sticking out below the body (once the drive is removed, be sure to mark it because it is offset) and then rotate the shaft against the file. This eliminates burrs to make it easier to remove. Otherwise the burrs may make it near impossible to remove it from the bushing and body.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[mcdonaldneal]

[mcdonaldneal]

[camit34]

This is greatly appreciated!

[wcfvw69]

I've also rebuilt a lot of these post 71 aluminum distributors. Personally, I don't take the weight springs off the plastic securing clips with the ears as there's no need to. Take them off the other side. I have a pair of plyers that are very small and open the end of the spring up to lift them off. I like to insure the advance weight hole or post isn't worn to the point that I can feel any side to side movement. Most are still tight. I use a good wheel bearing grease on the post and weight to keep it lubricated. It won't harden up like the Bosch grease can.

As far as the clip that bites everyone? I do what Glenn does. I pop it off with by prying between the two with a rag over the top so I don't loose the clip. To reinstall the little C-clip, I made a special aluminum tube that's hollow. It fits over the clip and being hollow, it allows it to push the clip on. It's takes literally a second to re-secure the clip back in place.

I like to use the wheel bearing grease on the weight pivots, advance plates and other spots where I use to use Bosch grease. It's very sticky as well and won't fling off.

Lastly, checking those vacuum cans is best done with a hand vacuum gauge. The tongue test doesn't work. I like to pump up the vacuum and let it stay for 30 seconds w/out moving. I've never had any luck with a used DVDA vacuum can. I always source NOS ones that are getting difficult to find these days.
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