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DougB Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2007 Posts: 1076 Location: Falls Church, Virginia, USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine |
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Agreed...I'm regularly at 3900 rpms or more with an 002 pyramid tranny just at normal highway speeds. The CS is wonderfully balanced so you don't notice it as much.
I did buy my stainless Vintage Speed muffler from Aircooled.net, but it's just too loud to enjoy the bus on long road trips. :-/
- Doug _________________ '75 Campmobile (tin-top to SpaceRoof)
'73 Fastback
'52 BMW R67/2
'41 Zundapp KS600
'55 Puch SGS250
A very, very understanding wife |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6979 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine |
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^Doug, I've read many of your posts about the VS being too loud at cruising speeds, I actually find it to be opposite. Even my wife says it's quieter then the Phatboy I was running and states it's much easier to have a conversation now. I guess I need to go for a ride in a T4 bus with a VS to compair.
Hey Notchboy, how do you feel the tone for your VS is with that 2.4? _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22445 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine |
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I notice it being louder than the stock motor and can it had for a muffler. I notice it mostly when the noise bounces off a wall on the right side from the tail pipe. The drone in the bus is slightly louder but not defining or uncomfortable.
Fourth gear, uphill. Im not screaming at the camera and hearing just fine. RPMs are higher in the first vid than the second.
To me its all negligible and I wouldn't give it two shits if it wasn't for us kicking it around here.
Link
Link
Its my P 38 Lightning. All the girls dig it
Link
_________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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udidwht Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005 Posts: 3779 Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:17 am Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine |
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My 2056cc with S&S exhaust...
https://youtu.be/0EoAeY8dG0o
And on the run while jetting with vac gauge and LM-2....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ObUMPCHw1Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZGLD67F9DQ _________________ 1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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DougB Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2007 Posts: 1076 Location: Falls Church, Virginia, USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:04 am Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine |
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What is the S&S exhaust?
Keep in mind that I'm running the stock muffler now. There is simply no comparing the interior sound at highway speed between the header+single muffler combinations or the VS exhaust...stock is sooo quiet compared to the others. The next time I have the VS on, just for a change of pace, I'll get the decibel readings. But seriously, anyone who thinks the VS is quieter than stock is welcome to bet me a keg of beer on it. Of course there are performance trade-offs...the VS was definitely much snappier when you'd stomp on the gas while already at highway speeds, that's for sure.
The sound wasn't all that big of a deal for me...but my wife is already losing some of her hearing sensitivity, and with the kids on the Westy back seat a good distance from the driver's seat the drone was significant, and my wife was always asking people to repeat themselves and getting frustrated.
So, back to the Python. People were talking it up so much...so who's actually running one?
- Doug _________________ '75 Campmobile (tin-top to SpaceRoof)
'73 Fastback
'52 BMW R67/2
'41 Zundapp KS600
'55 Puch SGS250
A very, very understanding wife |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22445 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine |
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DougB wrote: |
What is the S&S exhaust?
Keep in mind that I'm running the stock muffler now. There is simply no comparing the interior sound at highway speed between the header+single muffler combinations or the VS exhaust...stock is sooo quiet compared to the others. The next time I have the VS on, just for a change of pace, I'll get the decibel readings. But seriously, anyone who thinks the VS is quieter than stock is welcome to bet me a keg of beer on it. Of course there are performance trade-offs...the VS was definitely much snappier when you'd stomp on the gas while already at highway speeds, that's for sure.
The sound wasn't all that big of a deal for me...but my wife is already losing some of her hearing sensitivity, and with the kids on the Westy back seat a good distance from the driver's seat the drone was significant, and my wife was always asking people to repeat themselves and getting frustrated.
So, back to the Python. People were talking it up so much...so who's actually running one?
- Doug |
Im probably going to either put the stock muffler from the 74 on my 77 and buy nos for the 74 to see the diff or get a nos stock for the 77. To see as lots of this kind of talk is so relative you make a guy want to drink
Anyone know where to get a nos 74 muffler? One with the triangle flange at the end for the tail pipe? The others I see look like 411 & 412 mufflers?
I like my VS, but it is loud. Ill have a swap this weekend to see. _________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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udidwht Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005 Posts: 3779 Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine |
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notchboy wrote: |
DougB wrote: |
What is the S&S exhaust?
Keep in mind that I'm running the stock muffler now. There is simply no comparing the interior sound at highway speed between the header+single muffler combinations or the VS exhaust...stock is sooo quiet compared to the others. The next time I have the VS on, just for a change of pace, I'll get the decibel readings. But seriously, anyone who thinks the VS is quieter than stock is welcome to bet me a keg of beer on it. Of course there are performance trade-offs...the VS was definitely much snappier when you'd stomp on the gas while already at highway speeds, that's for sure.
The sound wasn't all that big of a deal for me...but my wife is already losing some of her hearing sensitivity, and with the kids on the Westy back seat a good distance from the driver's seat the drone was significant, and my wife was always asking people to repeat themselves and getting frustrated.
So, back to the Python. People were talking it up so much...so who's actually running one?
- Doug |
Im probably going to either put the stock muffler from the 74 on my 77 and buy nos for the 74 to see the diff or get a nos stock for the 77. To see as lots of this kind of talk is so relative you make a guy want to drink
Anyone know where to get a nos 74 muffler? One with the triangle flange at the end for the tail pipe? The others I see look like 411 & 412 mufflers?
I like my VS, but it is loud. Ill have a swap this weekend to see. |
For the sake of your head temps (given your set up) your best staying with a 72-74 set up with a header and QP muffler. _________________ 1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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otiswesty Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006 Posts: 1729 Location: Portland
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine |
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Here is how my Ernst muffler looked when I got it on the bus 5 or 6 weeks ago.
BusDepot sells one that looks very similar.
http://www.busdepot.com/071251053ek
_________________ 1978 Sage Green P22 Westfalia
1989 T3 Syncro Single cab
Just a regular guy
Last edited by otiswesty on Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:13 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22445 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine |
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udidwht wrote: |
notchboy wrote: |
DougB wrote: |
What is the S&S exhaust?
Keep in mind that I'm running the stock muffler now. There is simply no comparing the interior sound at highway speed between the header+single muffler combinations or the VS exhaust...stock is sooo quiet compared to the others. The next time I have the VS on, just for a change of pace, I'll get the decibel readings. But seriously, anyone who thinks the VS is quieter than stock is welcome to bet me a keg of beer on it. Of course there are performance trade-offs...the VS was definitely much snappier when you'd stomp on the gas while already at highway speeds, that's for sure.
The sound wasn't all that big of a deal for me...but my wife is already losing some of her hearing sensitivity, and with the kids on the Westy back seat a good distance from the driver's seat the drone was significant, and my wife was always asking people to repeat themselves and getting frustrated.
So, back to the Python. People were talking it up so much...so who's actually running one?
- Doug |
Im probably going to either put the stock muffler from the 74 on my 77 and buy nos for the 74 to see the diff or get a nos stock for the 77. To see as lots of this kind of talk is so relative you make a guy want to drink
Anyone know where to get a nos 74 muffler? One with the triangle flange at the end for the tail pipe? The others I see look like 411 & 412 mufflers?
I like my VS, but it is loud. Ill have a swap this weekend to see. |
For the sake of your head temps (given your set up) your best staying with a 72-74 set up with a header and QP muffler. |
And the noisy full flow VS is not a middle ground? _________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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udidwht Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005 Posts: 3779 Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine |
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notchboy wrote: |
udidwht wrote: |
notchboy wrote: |
DougB wrote: |
What is the S&S exhaust?
Keep in mind that I'm running the stock muffler now. There is simply no comparing the interior sound at highway speed between the header+single muffler combinations or the VS exhaust...stock is sooo quiet compared to the others. The next time I have the VS on, just for a change of pace, I'll get the decibel readings. But seriously, anyone who thinks the VS is quieter than stock is welcome to bet me a keg of beer on it. Of course there are performance trade-offs...the VS was definitely much snappier when you'd stomp on the gas while already at highway speeds, that's for sure.
The sound wasn't all that big of a deal for me...but my wife is already losing some of her hearing sensitivity, and with the kids on the Westy back seat a good distance from the driver's seat the drone was significant, and my wife was always asking people to repeat themselves and getting frustrated.
So, back to the Python. People were talking it up so much...so who's actually running one?
- Doug |
Im probably going to either put the stock muffler from the 74 on my 77 and buy nos for the 74 to see the diff or get a nos stock for the 77. To see as lots of this kind of talk is so relative you make a guy want to drink
Anyone know where to get a nos 74 muffler? One with the triangle flange at the end for the tail pipe? The others I see look like 411 & 412 mufflers?
I like my VS, but it is loud. Ill have a swap this weekend to see. |
For the sake of your head temps (given your set up) your best staying with a 72-74 set up with a header and QP muffler. |
And the noisy full flow VS is not a middle ground? |
Still doesn't compare to a header run with a merge. _________________ 1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22445 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:26 pm Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine |
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udidwht wrote: |
notchboy wrote: |
udidwht wrote: |
notchboy wrote: |
DougB wrote: |
What is the S&S exhaust?
Keep in mind that I'm running the stock muffler now. There is simply no comparing the interior sound at highway speed between the header+single muffler combinations or the VS exhaust...stock is sooo quiet compared to the others. The next time I have the VS on, just for a change of pace, I'll get the decibel readings. But seriously, anyone who thinks the VS is quieter than stock is welcome to bet me a keg of beer on it. Of course there are performance trade-offs...the VS was definitely much snappier when you'd stomp on the gas while already at highway speeds, that's for sure.
The sound wasn't all that big of a deal for me...but my wife is already losing some of her hearing sensitivity, and with the kids on the Westy back seat a good distance from the driver's seat the drone was significant, and my wife was always asking people to repeat themselves and getting frustrated.
So, back to the Python. People were talking it up so much...so who's actually running one?
- Doug |
Im probably going to either put the stock muffler from the 74 on my 77 and buy nos for the 74 to see the diff or get a nos stock for the 77. To see as lots of this kind of talk is so relative you make a guy want to drink
Anyone know where to get a nos 74 muffler? One with the triangle flange at the end for the tail pipe? The others I see look like 411 & 412 mufflers?
I like my VS, but it is loud. Ill have a swap this weekend to see. |
For the sake of your head temps (given your set up) your best staying with a 72-74 set up with a header and QP muffler. |
And the noisy full flow VS is not a middle ground? |
Still doesn't compare to a header run with a merge. |
Gocha, thanks for the insight brother _________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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old DKP driver Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2005 Posts: 4145 Location: Los Gatos,Ca.
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:12 pm Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine |
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S&S Headers started in Santa Ana /Orange County ,CA way back in the 1960's
then moved to Anaheim,CA. then ended up in Glendale,AZ.
I bought my last exhaust system from them in March 2007 before they
went out of business.
Dean Lowery had a vested interest in them when they were in Santa ana
since they were close to his shop.
I do remember that they were also a big header fabricator for a lot of
V-8 and other racing engines in our area. Along with having a couple
of guys that were pioneers for VW bugs that came from a small shop
in Anaheim,CA. called "ANCHOR Muffler" and this shop was the 1ST
to Bend & fabricate (on the car) OUR exhaust systems for DKP members
while you waited in the showroom. (look it up) if you don't believe me. dkp class of 1967.... _________________ V.W.owner since 1967 |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22445 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:49 pm Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine |
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old DKP driver wrote: |
S&S Headers started in Santa Ana /Orange County ,CA way back in the 1960's
then moved to Anaheim,CA. then ended up in Glendale,AZ.
I bought my last exhaust system from them in March 2007 before they
went out of business.
Dean Lowery had a vested interest in them when they were in Santa ana
since they were close to his shop.
I do remember that they were also a big header fabricator for a lot of
V-8 and other racing engines in our area. Along with having a couple
of guys that were pioneers for VW bugs that came from a small shop
in Anaheim,CA. called "ANCHOR Muffler" and this shop was the 1ST
to Bend & fabricate (on the car) OUR exhaust systems for DKP members
while you waited in the showroom. (look it up) if you don't believe me. dkp class of 1967.... |
You know Ive seen you post many many times. Chatted with you in a few. Read your tag I dont know how many times. Until you just said it now, it didnt dawn on me. An old Panzer _________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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Hoody Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007 Posts: 1948
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:37 am Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine |
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Chris beat me to it. SS extractors are not what they used to be. My local VW GURU has one. They sold the company to someone who now produces the steel from recycled steel. Hmmmmm maybe the Chinese? I guess there are not enough 72-74 heater box owners out their that want to buck up for a quality merged header. It could be made out of steel made in the USA and you could use your muffler of choice. That's the difference between quality
steel and the garbage that now floods the market. One Samba member has had his since 1988....a new one will have shit welds, won't fit perfectly, the flanges will warp and be much thinner and the muffler will rot from the inside out. Sadly the norm these days is that planned obsolescence is ok. |
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DougB Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2007 Posts: 1076 Location: Falls Church, Virginia, USA
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:34 am Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine |
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Thanks for keeping this going...definitely getting a lot of backstory and info from this thread.
For anyone on the east coast or DC area if you have a type 4 with the 72-74 muffler flanges you're welcome to try my VS exhaust (would just rather not have to ship it). If you like it I'll give you a good deal over a new one. It has an oxygen sensor, too.
I'm asking so many questions here mainly because I don't want to buy another exhaust just to not use it because my wife complains (it was just as much her decision as mine to drop the cash on the CS, so she kind of has a say since we travel in the Westy so much).
I found a guy earlier in the thread who has the Python in what looks to be a type 4 late bay, asking him about his experiences, so I'll let you all know what he says.
Thanks again, all!
- Doug _________________ '75 Campmobile (tin-top to SpaceRoof)
'73 Fastback
'52 BMW R67/2
'41 Zundapp KS600
'55 Puch SGS250
A very, very understanding wife |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22445 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine |
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Hoody wrote: |
Chris beat me to it. SS extractors are not what they used to be. My local VW GURU has one. They sold the company to someone who now produces the steel from recycled steel. Hmmmmm maybe the Chinese? I guess there are not enough 72-74 heater box owners out their that want to buck up for a quality merged header. It could be made out of steel made in the USA and you could use your muffler of choice. That's the difference between quality
steel and the garbage that now floods the market. One Samba member has had his since 1988....a new one will have shit welds, won't fit perfectly, the flanges will warp and be much thinner and the muffler will rot from the inside out. Sadly the norm these days is that planned obsolescence is ok. |
Precisely why I asked about a OEM possibly NOS one to fit if I get tired of the noise. _________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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Jake Raby Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:22 pm Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine |
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otiswesty wrote: |
Raby isn't much on the Pinzgauer forums much any more either...
His bully pulpit is kind of exhausting. Asking people to post their questions and information only on the Aircooledtechnology forums, then over-moderating and later deleting all that info is not the best way to build your fan based or create long term legitimacy. Interesting to see that there are some who still view his strong opinions as gospel.
My bus is a 78 and the exhaust is converted to 74 style HE's with the Ernst muffler. It is ceramic coated and has a stock sound. I have not run it with a different muffler, so can't comment on that. |
Nope, I'm still here... I'm also still on the Pinzgauer forums, you just don't know who I am, and that's the way it will stay. I currently own two Pinzgauers.
I stopped caring about what people were doing a few years ago. I stopped caring about anything and anyone outside of my circles, and that's when I stopped posting. It took many years to wise up and realize that I had wasted years of my life sharing things with a vast majority of people who didn't appreciate it.
Today I build as many T4 engines as I want to, and we continue developing like we always have. I share this with the people who care enough to purchase it, and that's the way it should be.
So.... bolt any exhaust on that CS that you want to, do what you want with it, and it's not mine anymore...I haven't owned the Type 4 Store for almost 5 years now...... I miss it about as much as these forums, which is one hair shy of not at all.
I have a small group of around 1,600 people that follow me in a private group. They appreciate what I create, and want to share it with me. They don't argue, consider me a bully, or bitch. Helping them is very satisfying. _________________ Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6979 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine |
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Not knowing Jake, but knowing his reputation in the ACVW Community and the fact that people hold them in such high regard around here. I find that reply to be a total bummer, and I don't even own a T4. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build |
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airkooledchris Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005 Posts: 2707
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine |
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The well of valuable T4 information dried up from that source a while ago, so we don't have to keep putting up with the bullshit attitude in the hopes that he sticks around anymore.
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Jake Raby Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine |
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airkooledchris wrote: |
The well of valuable T4 information dried up from that source a while ago, so we don't have to keep putting up with the bullshit attitude in the hopes that he sticks around anymore.
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See.. There ya have it. Took me two decades to finally figure out that this was the case. As long as people can get free information, thats all they want. Thanks for quantifying this publicly.
I'm glad that you did, and no hard feelings at all! _________________ Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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