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Exhaust options camper special engine
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svenjamison
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:38 pm    Post subject: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

Hello folks. Building a camper special for the westy (Hoffman heads, 9590 cam, 2l L-jet, 72-74 heater boxes), and am mulling the exhaust. Have stock Ernst muffler in fine shape, but suspect it will be restricting things a bit. Type 4 store shows this combo:

http://type4store.com/products/exhaust/header-muffler-combo-fits-72-74-79-82-only.html

....Which is cheap as dirt, but I wonder if it'll hold together like dirt, or be obnoxiously loud. Would love the simple stock setup, but perhaps this will not be friendly with the additional desired flow of the new engine. Would rather not spend north of 3k on an engine and then stick a banana in the tailpipe Wink Anyone compare stock Ernst 72-74 vs header style muffler for a camper special-like build and have any input as to the direction to head? Suspecting stock will not cut it, but thought I'd put the feelers out.

Much obliged..
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old DKP driver
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

I would want to know the manufacture

That is very cheap compared to others .

I bought my last S&S exhaust (similar) in 2003 or so for about $200.00
before they closed up the business.
some vendors also split the price.
$100 for the header
$100 for the muffler

Others will chime in with what they have puchased
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Hoody
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

That looks like Empi to me....just burn 150.00. You'll be better
Off. I would call tangerine and see if he has any of the exhaust set ups he and Jake designed. I am sure he still has the jig. Won't be cheap but it was specifically designed for that engine. Or perhaps he could build you a quality made set up like Thunder Bird use to make for the 72-74 boxes and you can add a better flowing muffler. Other then that I think CSP and Vintage speed are the only options out there. At least as far as I could find.
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WhirledTraveller
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:14 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

Do not run stock, tempting as it may be. It will make your motor run hot and cost horsepower for sure.

AFAIK those cheap empi exhausts fit, perform, and sound acceptable but you have to replace them almost every year. Empi was advertising a stainless version, not sure if it ever made it to market.

I would (and did) go with the stainless steel Vintage Speed model.

The CSP looks great... For $1k it better be! Looks loud, though, and gets in the way of valve adjustments.
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Lil' Lulu
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:29 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

I know empi has a bad rep here but my experience with my Camper Special and empi exhaust is 180 degrees from that.

When I bought the kit 40,000 miles ago, I sent Jake a picture of the empi exhaust that was on the rig when I bought it. He said that would work fine. It was rusty ugly but served well for about 35,000 of those miles until I bought the empi stainless.

I now have about 5000 miles on the stainless and it performs flawlessly in the worst possible conditions. The bus lives less than 200 yards from the Pacific Ocean estuary where it rains 8 months of the year, the wind blows constantly and at times the air tastes of salt when you walk out the door in the morning. Quiet, no they aren't quiet but if I wanted quiet I'd buy a damn Prius.

Yesterday I drove the bus, like a bat out o' hell, to Mt. St.Helens from elevation 7' to over 3500'. The head temps never rose above 400* for longer than 30 seconds and I passed everything from Honda fart cans to Cadillacs. Next week I'm heading on a 3000+ mile trip to Montana where I'll cruise a lot at around 5,000' and I have no worries.

The empi bias on this forum may be well-deserved but those damn exhausts are worth every penny I've paid for them. And the stainless doesn't even say empi on it, so you won't have to hang your head when some asshat with 800 bones in his exhaust sneers at you. Wink
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curtp07
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:30 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

I'm going through the same decision - see this topic:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=661072&highlight=
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svenjamison
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:31 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

I will probably chance the EMPI, and properly strip and apply better paint before the install. Down the road the Vintage Speed looks nice. Anyone know if the Vintage Speed is comparable to the thunderbird style in terms of performance? If so I am tempted to purchase, but shipping times from the distributors I checked are lengthy (across the pond).
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Hoody
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

Check out Turbo Thomas in the UK. He can build a custom exhaust for you. He makes a bolt on muffler like the VS....but can make you a custom exhaust. A stainless "Stainless Thunderbird" style extractor with a flowing muffler might be the ideal set up.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

I think you need to consider what your intended use is. If you are going to be driving over rough terrain the stock style muffler is likely the best.
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

If you look close, you can see that one you posted is logo'd as "bugpack" - which means it'll likely be rusted with holes in it within 2 years.


Vintage Speed is worth it IMO and I had a failure with mine recently. They are building me a brand new one and shipping it out shortly to correct the issue.

Point being, they stand behind their product. If the welds didn't break from the vibrations on the end of the can, it otherwise looks as good as it did on day 1.
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VWsArent4Hippies
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

svenjamison wrote:
I will probably chance the EMPI, and properly strip and apply better paint before the install. Down the road the Vintage Speed looks nice. Anyone know if the Vintage Speed is comparable to the thunderbird style in terms of performance? If so I am tempted to purchase, but shipping times from the distributors I checked are lengthy (across the pond).


In stock in the US here:

http://monkeynutvw.3dcartstores.com/Type-4-Bay-Window-Bus-Sport-Muffler_p_251.html
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DougB
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:27 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

I ran a stainless steel Vintage Speed muffler and sure, it performed well, but was louder than I wanted. I not have the stock Ernst muffler and am not really seeing higher temps, but do notice a few less horsepower and a little less torque. We weren't looking for speed and power as much as we wanted the reliability and longevity when we bought the CS engine. I can still cruise at 70 MPH on east coast and mid-Atlantic roads without issue.
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

DougB wrote:
I ran a stainless steel Vintage Speed muffler and sure, it performed well, but was louder than I wanted. I not have the stock Ernst muffler and am not really seeing higher temps, but do notice a few less horsepower and a little less torque. We weren't looking for speed and power as much as we wanted the reliability and longevity when we bought the CS engine. I can still cruise at 70 MPH on east coast and mid-Atlantic roads without issue.


did you go with the single pipe or dual pipes on your vintage speed unit?

I ask as the single is supposedly quieter than the dual option.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

Mine has the dual pipes because I don't think the one with the single larger outlet was available at the time. :-/
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

airkooledchris wrote:
DougB wrote:
I ran a stainless steel Vintage Speed muffler and sure, it performed well, but was louder than I wanted. I not have the stock Ernst muffler and am not really seeing higher temps, but do notice a few less horsepower and a little less torque. We weren't looking for speed and power as much as we wanted the reliability and longevity when we bought the CS engine. I can still cruise at 70 MPH on east coast and mid-Atlantic roads without issue.


did you go with the single pipe or dual pipes on your vintage speed unit?

I ask as the single is supposedly quieter than the dual option.


I have the single pipe version and I can't say whether it is quieter than the two pipe version but I can say that it is not quiet. If you want stock sound then stock is the only way. I previously had a thunderbird (similar to the bug pack/empi) and it wasn't quiet either. But neither is what I would classify as obnoxious and I feel ok about driving through the city at night. It's quieter than the motorcycles around here at any rate.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

I do not have a T4 but I do have a VS exhaust. I ran an EMPI muffler for 30+k and I can tell you my current VS is a lot quiter then the EMPI. Even my wife says it is.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:03 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

Im running a CSP Python,it does get in the way a little when doing valves but I've learned to work around it.
I can't really compare it to other systems but I'm happy.
It is made really well and is definitely a quality exhaust.
Would be interesting to see if works well on your CS motor!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

Just wanted to share as I've been swapping out exhausts a bit lately...

I originally used the Vintage Speed stainless exhaust for the CS2.0 in my '75 Westy, but it's louder than I wanted so I actually switched back to a stock exhaust. I didn't notice any dramatically higher CHTs but there was definitely less power, and I think my MPGs suffered a bit, too.

Well, a few days ago I cleaned up the Vintage Speed exhaust and reinstalled that. Wow, I forgot how throaty and loud it is compared to stock...no wonder I hadn't noticed the whine from my transmission as much when I first got the CS. I like the performance but startup sounds like I just fired up a biplane in the driveway. Perhaps I'll keep this one on there for a bit but then swap back to the stock muffler for family trips.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

Hey Doug - are their videos a good example of the loudness of the VS?

If not can you post a short clip?

Thanks,
Curt
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

curtp07 wrote:
Hey Doug - are their videos a good example of the loudness of the VS?

If not can you post a short clip?

Thanks,
Curt


Ive had many of those EMPI units and the SINGLE outlet VS unit, and the VS unit isn't any louder than the EMPI one. You gotta order the SINGLE outlet unit though, because they specifically advertise the double as being louder and throatier.
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