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Exhaust options camper special engine
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otiswesty
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

My exhaust tip is pretty close to my bumper with the German Ernst muffler and Dansk tail pipe. I know my trailer hitch set up moves the bumper down a couple of millimeters. Hopefully it does not soot up the bumper too much. Not exactly related to the engine/exhaust combo, but since I was posting up my exhaust, I thought I would mention it for the benefit of others. I think the tip is from Bus Depot and it would have been nice to modify it for a slight downward bend before refinishing it.
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Terminatez
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

Will be following this post as it's almost time for me to get something for my CS as well. Great info.
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DougB
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:14 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

Anyone with the CSP Python running a trailer hitch, too? That's one of the advantages of the VS or stock mufflers, that so can run my Jamie _________ receiver hitch. Looking at the Python pics available online I'm not sure the hitch would work. Bummer because I was going to pull the trigger on the order today :-/

- Doug
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DougB
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

Well, because of the hitch I have and mudflap setup I think the CSP Python is out for me...I didn't realize how far out to the side the muffler site until I found some new pictures today.

Then I found this...I bet it's is pretty quiet:

http://www.ahnendorp.com/VW-Type-4---Porsche-914-e...nless.html

...but then it seems the muffler and headers are separate part numbers, putting the complete order over $1K...more than I wanted to spend unless it's from Jake Wink

- Doug
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Terminatez
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

Clatter sent me this link via PM https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1797239

Would the silencer even benefit the CS combo? I feel like it wouldn't let the engine breathe as much as it needs to?
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williamM
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:34 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

I have an earlier version of that header, and a full sized Vanagon muffler- it's pretty loud and the tail pipe sticks out a bit far- Still doing the tune- so can report what it sounds like going down the road s open spaces.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

Did you mean the Ahnendorp setup of the stainless Tbird copy in the Samba ad? The stainless Tbird is always an option...
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

Check out Turbo Thomas. He makes a bad as header out of stainless. That way you can swap out mufflers til you find one that fits your needs in terms of loudness.
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Clatter
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

Wow.

Been away from this for a while, and look what transcribes...

Jake did more development/testing for the Type 4 bus than anyone ever.
(Save for maybe VW themselves).
What's more, he did so without emissions as the primary goal.

If any of you had been around before Jake, you would have some realization of what it meant to try and build a bus motor beyond just factory stock.
You were on your own, and anyone who had ideas where just that - ideas.

The amount of info that he shared was enormous.
I still can't believe how much info he gave away.

Study up, kids---> http://shoptalkforums.com/viewforum.php?f=47&sid=2cfdc7008389b9ad95b4befe42bd38f0

Even though that was 10 years ago, much still applies.
After all, these busses are far older than that.

I'm feeling very lucky to have been there when Jake was doing his thing.
It is unfortunate for people just getting into this hobby now,
They think that any random poster here has opinions that hold weight like Jake's..

Thanks for all you have done for us Type 4 bus owners Jake.
Some of us truly appreciate it!
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Clatter
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

Oh, and BTW, the way I remember it,

The _first_ thing to improve the reliability/power/mileage of your type 4 bus is to get the exhaust flowing.

Choking up the exhaust stacks up the heat in the heads.

VW improved the heater output of the exhaust at the expense of flow in '75.

If heater output means more to you than reliability/power/mileage,
then the '75-'79 exhaust is for you!

Just like quiet.
If quiet is your primary goal,
Then run a stock-style muffler.


IMHO, there is little sense in building a big-valve big-cam bus motor (i.e. Camper Special) if you are going to run a poor-flowing exhaust.

It might even be worse for the motor to cork it up like that??


I remember Jake doing a bunch of testing developing the CS combo for bus.
He tested a bunch of different exhausts, including the $$ Tangerine, among many others.
From his testing,
The T-Bird worked really well.
Even though he couldn't really make any money selling it,
he owned up that it worked really well for the price.

That right there speaks volumes..

Why mess with success?
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Type 5 Joe wrote:
Gotta just love the opinions of a couple of the jokers on here... - and some of the funny thoughts that roll around in their heads, like a tin can with a couple marbles in it being shook up.


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Hoody
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

I am another one who cannot thank him enough. I have spent countless hours on the type4rum learning from him. He was incredibly generous with knowledge. He invested 10's of thousands of dollars in R&D and freely shared his findings. I was fortunate to have someone like Jake to learn from. There has never been nor will ever be another individual who has done so much for the R&D of the type 4 engine. Something as simple as running a type 1 oil pump correctly modified can be the difference between your new engine ending in a catostrophic failure or never having an issue with the oil pump. No one else besides Jake that I am aware of has been a proponit of this. Then there are the countless other tips that he freely shared over the years to drop your head temps 5 degrees here and ten degrees there. As far as I am concerned he is the greatest pioneer of the type 4 engine in history. Nobody on this website would even know who the fuck Len Hoffman is if it wasn't for Jake. So the next time your going to judge someone who is the best in the world at what they do....I suggest that you do your homework.

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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

Well pointed out in both posts.

I am in the process of designing my own header....thoughts are in a thread in the 411/412 forum.....but if I get lazy or,short for time and $......I would buy this

https://www.vwheritage.com/bay-bus/bay-bus-1968-79...p=603&

Scroll down. Basically its a stainless steel T-bird header. Ray
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Terminatez
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
Well pointed out in both posts.

I am in the process of designing my own header....thoughts are in a thread in the 411/412 forum.....but if I get lazy or,short for time and $......I would buy this

https://www.vwheritage.com/bay-bus/bay-bus-1968-79...p=603&

Scroll down. Basically its a stainless steel T-bird header. Ray


Why that one in particular as opposed to other T-Bird copies in the classified, or even the type 4 store itself?

Edit: Also can you give an exact link to the header you're talking about. There are a few on that link.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

Terminatez wrote:
raygreenwood wrote:
Well pointed out in both posts.

I am in the process of designing my own header....thoughts are in a thread in the 411/412 forum.....but if I get lazy or,short for time and $......I would buy this

https://www.vwheritage.com/bay-bus/bay-bus-1968-79...p=603&

Scroll down. Basically its a stainless steel T-bird header. Ray


Why that one in particular as opposed to other T-Bird copies in the classified, or even the type 4 store itself?

Edit: Also can you give an exact link to the header you're talking about. There are a few on that link.


Simply because its basically thd same as the T-bird.....a copy if you will.....and its stainless steel......not made of "rustoleum". There are no stainless headers on the type 4 store site.

If you see others like it....copies of the T-bird.....made of stainless with good welding.....post them please!.

Actually there is only one header on that page......2nd one down.....part # AC 251704.

This may take you there....

https://www.vwheritage.com/ac251704-stainless-steel-header-for-type-4-engine-1700-2000

Ray
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:16 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

Thanks, Ray, that is the one I'm looking at right now. Unfortunately I don't think the CSP will clear my hitch setup, and we often use an Essen trailer to haul additional camping gear. I wish there were a header system that ended in a dual muffler setup but I guess there's not enough room behind the engine for it.

I will look at Turbo a Thomas, too, though.

Performance has never been my sole driver...if it was I'd hop in our Volvo each day. For us the Westy is about family fun, and that means reliability and audibility of family members trumps performance. I'm not looking to do burn outs or cruise the highway at 75 all day. I do treat our CS somewhat gingerly because I want it to last as long as possible. Most of the time my oil doesn't stay in for more than 2000 miles. Fuel goes through a 1 micron filter. Gauges to monitor everything and even with a stock muffler my CHTs have never gone above 390. We all do this for different reasons, and obviously I cared enough about Jake's insights to put signature on paper.

Thanks again for the great discussion.

- Doug
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

DougB wrote:
Thanks, Ray, that is the one I'm looking at right now. Unfortunately I don't think the CSP will clear my hitch setup, and we often use an Essen trailer to haul additional camping gear. I wish there were a header system that ended in a dual muffler setup but I guess there's not enough room behind the engine for it.

I will look at Turbo a Thomas, too, though.

Performance has never been my sole driver...if it was I'd hop in our Volvo each day. For us the Westy is about family fun, and that means reliability and audibility of family members trumps performance. I'm not looking to do burn outs or cruise the highway at 75 all day. I do treat our CS somewhat gingerly because I want it to last as long as possible. Most of the time my oil doesn't stay in for more than 2000 miles. Fuel goes through a 1 micron filter. Gauges to monitor everything and even with a stock muffler my CHTs have never gone above 390. We all do this for different reasons, and obviously I cared enough about Jake's insights to put signature on paper.

Thanks again for the great discussion.

- Doug



Laughing ....see I'm pretty anal like that also. A couple of suggestions....

A,1 micron fuel filter is actually restrictive. It burns up fuel pumps and runs engines lean.....and that will be a come and go problem .....it can cause "surging"....as the pump loses prime against the restriction and cavitates.

Unless.....
A. You have a LARGE surface area filter and/or
B. You have a feeder pump.
C. You have the 1 micron filter on the pressure side....and again....it needs to be LARGE.

You need to keep an eye on your pump to see if it runs hot on long drives.

The hitch.....I would buy the best performing exhaust you can first....for the engines sake.... and not worry about the hitch fit. Then......go down to an RV place that specializes in hitches...and have them build you a hitch bracket that goes around the exhaust system.

Eons ago.....IIRC.....these were common. In factm...I would swear that JC Whitney sold some extended hitches just for rear engine cars like Corvair and VWm...and for cars that had lots of junk in the very rear anx bumpers that you could not bolt or weld to. Ray
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

Removed

Last edited by bbrowncods on Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Terminatez
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
Terminatez wrote:
raygreenwood wrote:
Well pointed out in both posts.

I am in the process of designing my own header....thoughts are in a thread in the 411/412 forum.....but if I get lazy or,short for time and $......I would buy this

https://www.vwheritage.com/bay-bus/bay-bus-1968-79...p=603&

Scroll down. Basically its a stainless steel T-bird header. Ray


Why that one in particular as opposed to other T-Bird copies in the classified, or even the type 4 store itself?

Edit: Also can you give an exact link to the header you're talking about. There are a few on that link.


Simply because its basically thd same as the T-bird.....a copy if you will.....and its stainless steel......not made of "rustoleum". There are no stainless headers on the type 4 store site.

If you see others like it....copies of the T-bird.....made of stainless with good welding.....post them please!.

Actually there is only one header on that page......2nd one down.....part # AC 251704.

This may take you there....

https://www.vwheritage.com/ac251704-stainless-steel-header-for-type-4-engine-1700-2000

Ray



I see. I posted one a few replies back. It from the classified. Clatter linked that one to me. I don't know about the actual quality though.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:56 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

Ray, the 1 micron filter element is in the Canton filter that Jake recommended. I used to run an 8 micron element in it, and when Canton released the 1 micron element I started using those. Before and after the switch I haven't noticed any impact to rail fuel pressure...there is a good amount of surface area in those elements, though...the filter can is about the size of a Chunky soup can.

Definitely going with the stainless version of the header & single quiet pack as soon as I get around to ordering it. The Ahnendorp header with the round the front routing and dual mufflers looked really interesting, but I couldn't find enough pics of it installed to feel good about the $1K+ expenditure.

Happy Saturday, all!

- Doug
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: Exhaust options camper special engine Reply with quote

DougB wrote:
Ray, the 1 micron filter element is in the Canton filter that Jake recommended. I used to run an 8 micron element in it, and when Canton released the 1 micron element I started using those. Before and after the switch I haven't noticed any impact to rail fuel pressure...there is a good amount of surface area in those elements, though...the filter can is about the size of a Chunky soup can.

Definitely going with the stainless version of the header & single quiet pack as soon as I get around to ordering it. The Ahnendorp header with the round the front routing and dual mufflers looked really interesting, but I couldn't find enough pics of it installed to feel good about the $1K+ expenditure.

Happy Saturday, all!

- Doug



Ah!...yes.....is it anything like this one? A canister filter with a big element that looks like a pleated oil filter?

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/product/CantonO...aQoditYLsw

If so...fantastic!...you should have no problems at all. I remember from discussion way back when that Jake was leaning toward a "big" filter but could not remember if he ever made a choice or posted it.

The surface area on those filters is HUGE. They have so much area to draw fuel through that even modern turbine pumps with not much "suck" should have no issue. I have also looked at those filters and would like one...just trying to figure out where to put it in my 412 Laughing

I should have realized you had something other than the average skinny filter. Ray
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