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Trying to stop heat transfer from the roof
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RainierSyncro
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:24 am    Post subject: Trying to stop heat transfer from the roof Reply with quote

Seattle temps pushed into 90's an couple of weeks ago. I have the headliner out of the Syncro firetruck and noticed the insane heat transfer from the roof. I couldn't put my hand on it. After checking around the boards, I found InSyncro's thread using Lizard Skin's spray-on ceramic insulation. Since InSyncro has been banned, he deleted all his pictures, so not too helpful.

I do like the Lizard Skin CI product, but I've seen YouTube vids of people using FatMat type sound deadening products for the roof. Is there a consensus of one product over another? I kinda think the sound deadening product's backing might get too gooey and peel off in high temps.
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:12 am    Post subject: Re: Trying to stop heat transfer from the roof Reply with quote

This does not directly help your issue but this was very effective for me.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:30 am    Post subject: Re: Trying to stop heat transfer from the roof Reply with quote

How about adapting the Land Rover safari roof idea:

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:04 am    Post subject: Re: Trying to stop heat transfer from the roof Reply with quote

Lizard skin makes two products. One for thermal and one for sound. They can be applied over each other and would seal the sheetmetal from moisture. You'd probably need to strip out a lot of the interior and at that point, you might want to do all the interior.

I don't believe members can delete photos only upload them. You can link to photos hosted on other servers. The problem is that linked photos for many reasons disappear over time and leave holes in the threads. If you are willing to share knowledge and photos, best to upload them here.

I am using reflectix from Lowes in our camper. Where I could I used multiple layers.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:26 am    Post subject: Re: Trying to stop heat transfer from the roof Reply with quote

I suggest that you take a look at using Prodex http://www.insulation4less.com/Insulation4lessProduct-20-Prodex-Total-4-ft-x-50-ft.aspx
We use it extensively in the installation of our hightops. Its IR reflective properties and closed cell foam inner layer does a great job of keeping the interior warm in winter and cool in summer.
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Steve M.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:35 am    Post subject: Re: Trying to stop heat transfer from the roof Reply with quote

The Land Rover Safari roof works. I had the 109 Rover with it.
On my '84 Vanagon I had a 4x8 sheet of plywood mounted on Yakima racks.
it covered the from the rear "D" up to the "B" pillar. The temp difference on a hot Florida day in clear skies was roughly a 20° in the shade of the plywood vs. the uncovered front seat area measured with a IR Gun on the roof sheetmetal.

The lizard skin thermal spray I would use along with the sound deadener.
that is only going to take up small amount of space leaving room to add more thermal material. VW used that horsehair type insulation in the roof. (Don't know what it is made of-just looks like that) you could replace that with the household insulation, but the chance of squeaking hard R foam could happen.

I would also try a "Space blanket" up there as that mylar is fantastic at shielding heat. You could put that between whatever thermal pad you decide on and the lizard skin covering. It works for NASA.

On the outside of the roof - the RV community has a Ceramic paint for the tops of the RV's that might be worth it -if it will give a good finish for the outside. I don't think you want the Fire Truck looking like crap!

Of course, you can always do this.
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elizer Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:53 am    Post subject: Re: Trying to stop heat transfer from the roof Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
This does not directly help your issue but this was very effective for me.

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I have a painted blue westy top and This looks like a great idea. How much of a difference does it make ?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:04 am    Post subject: Re: Trying to stop heat transfer from the roof Reply with quote

If I had the bare inside of a tin roof to work with, I would add a high quality peel and stick sound damper (cheap stuff will come loose over time) to stop the roof from becoming a drum/resonator, then I would add the Prodex to protect from the heat. It would seem silly to only address the heat and not the noise, especially on a tin roof.

And if I was going nuts with the whole sound control thing, I would add a layer of Cascade Audio's VB-4.5 from side to side, front to back making sure to cover every single hole, crack, crevice and seam in an effort to keep noise from traveling up through the pillars into the passenger compartment. This layer would go between the damper and the Prodex. You would need to use plenty of high quality headliner cement to install it since it's slightly on the heavy side.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:57 am    Post subject: Re: Trying to stop heat transfer from the roof Reply with quote

OddN wrote:
How about adapting the Land Rover safari roof idea:

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That's pretty cool (no pun)

It looks like canvas pulled tightly over some type of rack - I like it.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: Trying to stop heat transfer from the roof Reply with quote

elizer wrote:
dobryan wrote:
This does not directly help your issue but this was very effective for me.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I have a painted blue westy top and This looks like a great idea. How much of a difference does it make ?


It makes a large difference to my uncalibrated skin. With the original color there was a lot of heat radiating into the top bunk with the top up and it was uncomfortable to be up there on a hot sunny day. With the white top section there is no noticeable heat radiating in.... No actual temps were recorded though. Next time you are around a white Westy park side by side for a while and check out the differences... Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:07 am    Post subject: Re: Trying to stop heat transfer from the roof Reply with quote

I had the entire outer roof skin of mine coated with Line-x bedliner. While masked, I shot it with base and clear to match the van. I also have a full length and width roof rack with solar, yak box, sand ramps etc creating a similar effect like the Rover above. It makes a huge difference driving at freeway speeds and drops the interior temps.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: Trying to stop heat transfer from the roof Reply with quote

I have also been wondering about this. My wish list includes solar, so I further wonder how something like this would affect the heat/radiation inward to cabin. Anyone with experience? Does the black make it hotter coming down, or does the air gap mitigate?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: Trying to stop heat transfer from the roof Reply with quote

tjet wrote:
It looks like canvas pulled tightly over some type of rack - I like it.


It's aluminum like the rest of the Landrover.
There are also 4 vents that you can open on the roof underneath it on some models. You can see the two bulges in the safari roof where the air vents are at the front. The accessory list is somewhere near 4000 items so some Rovers have them and some don't. The original seats were just a piece of plywood and foam covered with vinyl.
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Last edited by Steve M. on Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: Trying to stop heat transfer from the roof Reply with quote

bobbyblack wrote:
Anyone with experience? Does the black make it hotter coming down, or does the air gap mitigate?


The air gap while going down the road helps a lot. Sitting still it does help, but not like having the air blowing any heat off the roof. The black will absorb the heat, how much it radiates through the solar panel you would have to measure with an IR gun to find out.
Like I said the difference on my roof with the 4x8 sheet of plywood was roughly 20° in the shade under it to the bare metal section without the shade. I think it would also depend on how high off the roof it is, you want some air gap but you don't need it up so high it becomes a parasitic drag on the aerodynamics. mine was positioned so the leading edge was at the "B" pillar. It did get air under it while driving, but a lot of air gets thrown up and over by the angle of the windshield so in effect not bringing it all the way forward to the front of the roof it allows the air to flow over the top of the plywood as if it were the roof. It's not perfect aerodynamics, but it helps not being all the way forward where it would catch the air. If the Westy guys would make a cover to fit over the empty cargo rack it would maybe help the aerodynamics and mpg.
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bluebus86
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: Trying to stop heat transfer from the roof Reply with quote

RainierSyncro wrote:
Seattle temps pushed into 90's an couple of weeks ago. I have the headliner out of the Syncro firetruck and noticed the insane heat transfer from the roof. I couldn't put my hand on it. After checking around the boards, I found InSyncro's thread using Lizard Skin's spray-on ceramic insulation. Since InSyncro has been banned, he deleted all his pictures, so not too helpful.

I do like the Lizard Skin CI product, but I've seen YouTube vids of people using FatMat type sound deadening products for the roof. Is there a consensus of one product over another? I kinda think the sound deadening product's backing might get too gooey and peel off in high temps.


painting the exterior white will help a lot over the darker colors, makes a huge difference, really huge differeance.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:41 am    Post subject: Re: Trying to stop heat transfer from the roof Reply with quote

Steve M. wrote:
If the Westy guys would make a cover to fit over the empty cargo rack it would maybe help the aerodynamics and mpg.


Ya, that one! I've been wondering where the guys who want something 'new' to try selling on the classified's are on this... would be simple. A fiberglass cover that has a few lockdown clamps that grab the cargo strap loops. Add some seals so that those of us who keep scratching our heads on "how does the water not get into the front of the pop-top at the canvas" from the cargo area's obvious meant-to-not completely seal to the van not-a-seal rubber bottom strip (meant to let the water from the weep holes drain out the edge somewhere).

-bobby
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: Trying to stop heat transfer from the roof Reply with quote

Got a sheet of reflectix cut to the pop top size.

It's held down with small tabs of velcro.

When I'm done with it , it rolls up into a cloth bag tube.

Works very well.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: Trying to stop heat transfer from the roof Reply with quote

bobbyblack wrote:
Steve M. wrote:
If the Westy guys would make a cover to fit over the empty cargo rack it would maybe help the aerodynamics and mpg.


Ya, that one! I've been wondering where the guys who want something 'new' to try selling on the classified's are on this... would be simple. A fiberglass cover that has a few lockdown clamps that grab the cargo strap loops. Add some seals so that those of us who keep scratching our heads on "how does the water not get into the front of the pop-top at the canvas" from the cargo area's obvious meant-to-not completely seal to the van not-a-seal rubber bottom strip (meant to let the water from the weep holes drain out the edge somewhere).
-bobby


It would be very easy to make. Adding a seal to it would complicate a simple idea and one more thing to replace in future years. Perhaps better to modify the drain holes to a drain line routed to the side of the cargo fairing so water does not drain back to the tent?
I think it should be a yearly exercise in removing the cargo box to check for rust forming under it and clear out the debris that collects under there.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: Trying to stop heat transfer from the roof Reply with quote

Sounds like some good ideas here. I don't plan to do anything with the outside of the roof (tintop), just inside. I'm also considering a color change to something darker, so more heat absorption.

The van has a regular headliner above the front seats and sort of a hard flexible fiberboard for the back half. I guess the fiberboard is stiff enough support some of the thermal blanket stuff without needing to glue it to the ceiling. This would be done after applying something directly to the roof.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Trying to stop heat transfer from the roof Reply with quote

Well you have half of it open. You can try out some of the ideas and see how it fairs against the rear half in preventing the heat coming through.

I wouldn't go to a darker color, that heat is just going to absorb into the metal body, you'll be leaving skin on your door handles! Shocked
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